apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Considering this, and all blogs, are subject to the Whole Wide World and yet there is as little negativity on this one as there is, I think you guys are doing a stellar job.

I agree with Curtis.

that kid in the picture is singled out cuz he's got that Michigan shirt on!

I think you have such a wonderful view/grasp on things, Maxwell. It stinks that you have to make sure adults (at least that's what appears to be the case, although I don't know) are behaving properly.

And I really like your idea about the small button. I think that, along with making their negativity so small and unimportant you have to squint to read it, it adds a bit of humor to the situation.

I say bravo to you all and hopefully, in the future, you will never have to ban anyone!

I can assume that Mr Green got banned. Who else did? I think I made clear how I felt about MrGreen's behavior and banning in my earlier post on Open Thread 378.

" -humor, honesty, tough love, intelligence and eloquence are all encouraged
-meanness, ad hominem attacks, continual nonsense and boorish behavior are not"

So what is the difference between tough love and meanness? And what is the threshold for banning someone? I think members of the community ( new and old ) should know. Who are the arbiters of what is and isnt "continual nonsense". I think it would be helfpul to define this in the interest of fairness.

AT is an invaluable resource and a wonderful community. But I think the community as a whole would be better served by some explicit Rules of Engagement. La luta continua!

teehee small button..love it.

hmm difference between tough love and being mean.

tough love: eh i dont like your paint selection, but i can see where you are going with it.

being mean: are you kidding with that paint. seriously did you fall off the crayola wagon..


i dunno thats my interpretation. ha

but im very pleased with the way all this has been handled. i adore this site.

Good for you! The comments section is one of my favorite aspects of your site, I learn so much and love to hear everyone's opinions, unfortunately some commenters were wasting mine and everyone else's time with their negative unproductive nonsense. Thanks!

I know there are fine lines, but I don't think it should be too hard to figure out what is constructive criticism and what is just being rude, mean, and crass. I, peronally, would think that "tough love" is probably more along the lines of sentences beginning with "I'm sorry but/no offense but..." instead of knocking everything just to rowl (sp?) everyone up. Also, if someone is continually asked/nudged by the community to...you know...just calm down a little...no need to tell the girl she's stupid because she likes this or be down on someone because they didn't know something....is asking for it.

bellaknollie hit the nail on the head

Whew, it's not me.

people can be so brutal on the web, I really like that this site is trying to calm some of the commenting rage :) the small button idea is great!

P.S. Go Blue!

Well put, Maxwell. Posts like this, in which you explain your thought process, and talk about why and how AT works the way it does, are great.

I would add to the above to say that not only is AT about community, but it is about process. The process of making greener, more beautiful, healthier homes mirrors the process of making a more useful, beautiful and healthy blog. And as with all processes, there are mistakes, fuckups and bad ideas. How you recover from the missteps says more, in the end, than the instant successes, I think.

Bravo. Onward and upward.

haha, should we all test our accounts by submitting a "Whew, its not me" post!

tough love vs. mean falls into that i know it when i see it category, and a "small button" option would allow for community consensus! i heart AT.

LOL @ Kellen!!

(I may be in Denver and NYC, but I was raised Maize and Blue!)

(phew!)

i am, however, curious as to who they were....

was it me?

ok good.

oh forbiddenfruit - i used your name mistakenly in my post about others who were banned - for some reason yours was all i could remember and then someone else mentioned a jonathand i said D'OH! just wanted to apologize for that.

- the d

I understand your need to monitor the conversation in ordr to further the goals of AT, but it is, after all, a commercial site, and most of us can easily skim over the comments that are clearly neither helpful nor well-intended. Frankly some of the most favorable comments are the ones that elicit a rolling of the eyes.

I'm all for a greener world, possibly a more beautiful one (this is far more subjective), but I'm not so certain I want to be in one in which freedom of speech is compromised. I have this sense that at some point this policy is going to roll over into the editorial content, and AT itself will no longer be of such value. I'd much prefer that AT remain wholely fixed in the real world and avoid infantilizing its readers.

Thank you Maxwell. I'm relieved you've taken action. I was actually taking some comments and conflicts on this site much too seriously lately--e.g., composing reply "comments" while I tried to sleep last night. Next time, though I hope there is no "next time," I won't lose any sleep over it.

Cheers.

I'm glad you did this. The commenting threads were reaching a scary point of hostility and discouraged me (and maybe others) from posting at all, unless said posts were completely researched and impervious to criticism.

I agree, Shannon in SF. Thank you for your efforts, Maxwell and the AT teams! The design workplace can be tough and heated; I enjoy my safehaven here in this online community.

I'm glad to hear some bannings occurred. Honestly, it was getting to the point where I didn't want to read any comments because there was bound to be a troll or two shitting everything up.

As always, tactful, kind and forward-thinking, Maxwell. Stick around a while, Marco, and it will all shake out beautifully.

marco, i think freedom of speech in this context has to be balanced by the community's ability to move forward with the stated vision of the site. this is not the US government we're talking about! if and when the comments get ugly (not just eye-rolling), it discourages some of us from visiting the site or participating. i do not think it's infantalizing to impose common rules of decency on this common ground we call AT.

I think those banned (assuming MrGreen was one), were more a distraction from the posted topic than a real threat to any readers, and part of his affect was how strongly other readers reacted to his comments. He seemed grumpy, but not that offensive to me, and occasionally had good advice, though not presented in the nicest possible way.

Overall, I agree with Marco on this one. I'd rather have as little censoring as possible, and let readers make up their own minds as to what is useful.

I think this is a thoughtful and measured response to what was obviously a growing problem. One of the most difficult things for any web forum like this one is striking a balance in the comments. Some don't allow comments at all, some edit or limit, and some allow a total free-for-all. Allowing a free-for-all always seems to result in some people taking advantage of the anonymity and being rude or inappropriate.

Some restrictions in a forum like this make sense, just as it makes sense for a restaurant to throw out a customer who is picking fights with the other customers or a party host to ask a rowdy party guest who is insulting the other guests to leave the party. Nothing Maxwell and the AT team do here is infringing on anyone's rights to free speech rights -- because AT isn't the government -- any more than the party host compromises the obnoxious guest's right to free speech by kicking him out of the party. I think this is especially true because the vitality of the AT community depends on this being a civil space where people want to keep coming back.

I for one think it makes sense for AT to be an environment where civility is valued, encouraged, and (when necessary) enforced.

what, was i banned?

elizabeth in AL - you freaked me out!!! don't do that again!

ha! i'm sorry!

I appreciate the motivation behind this decision, but no matter how you perceive it, instituting censorship is approaching a slippery slope. Just as disconcerting as it is to read harsh, mean-spirited comments, I'd like to believe that as adults we can also make the choice to ignore them and not engage. The small button, while slightly a better solution because it keeps the channels open, is still a form of censorship because you are the ones making a decision about which comments are to be made small. It nevertheless would let us, as adults, decide for ourselves.

The best way to kill the fire of someone's hateful comments is to simply ignore them. Don't comment back. Don't allow them to hijack the site. I personally don't need protection from someone else's bitter comments and I certainly don't believe that censoring the problem makes the problem go away. It's more an excercise in control. But it's your site and you have the power to make these decisions. At the risk of repeating myself, censorship is a slippery slope.

testing, testing....

Maxwell - kudos to you.

Well - I'm not sure where I stand on this - but Maxwell, et al., have endured a few nasty comment storms and I don't blame them for taking action. Worse than the nasties (which are sometimes just fun to read), are the folks who create a login just to post a link to some other commercial site - often having very little to do with the topic at hand. How are they dealt with?

I agree with many of the comments, when things become as negative as they have, it is very discouraging. While one or two negative comments here or there can easily be overlooked, the comments often overshadow the topic at hand. This is such a great community, I like the way this has been handled, and look forward to returning to more positive posts...

Thank you for taking action. Sometimes setting firm, clear limits and enforcing them is the most compassionate response. Things had been getting less and less joyful and inspiring than when I first started to visit the site, and I look forward to a fresh start.

I vaguely remember a McGreen before MrGreen came on the scene.

Thanks Maxwell.

i am blunt not mean (IMO) and i dont stray off topic. testing.......

I wanted to put my two cents in as a sometimes (okay, hardly ever) commenter but longtime lurker. I have been involved in forums that have degraded in the past due to the concerted efforts of a couple people who just liked to hear themselves talk, have their opinions agreed with and parroted back to them, and lashed out if everyone did not do so. I can not commend the operators and community of this site enough. With so many sites and under ten banned members, I find that amazing and so refreshing. Everyone here has been and I hope will continue to be incredibly helpful, and the various AT sites inspired me to actually tackle a project room in my new house (when it is completely done I will send pictures in to my regional site). Design can be a touchy subject, especially because of the personal nature of design, but nearly everyone here understands that and comments accordingly. We are all different and like and hate differnet things, so we must always remember and live by the immortal words of Pepe Le Pew, "Viva la differance!"

Just don't ever ban Patrick (the other one):a human with wit

also thanks for quick action on this. I don't envy your having to make a decision on this.

In terms of the future, I don't think the small button is a good idea. It would be too easy to hijack.

I haven't been monitoring threads closely the last couple days (geez, I've been working, go figure...), so I still don't know who the second bannee is. Also, was there a particular recent thread that was offensive?

I've been visiting AT long enough to say that Maxwell doesn't ban anyone without cause and it's not very often. The site has seem some really horrendous troll storms and I've breathed a sigh of relief with bannings in the past. True, the trolls do make for an exciting blog too, but it's just not worth the vitriol and offensiveness and pursuit of the totally off-topic.

oh man gmculp, i remember a mcgreen, too. i wonder if it was the same perosn - was he banned, as well?

I think this was a positive decision. I, also, noticed myself thinking about those posts even when I wasn't on the site. Thanks.

Well played, Maxwell. I can't help but feel a little warm and fuzzy, knowing that the AT community is so well-looked-after. There is a chat room that I'm an active part of in which every post begins or ends with "IMHO" - "in my humble opinion". It's basically posters grovelling in hopes of avoiding a flame war, and it's really really great that the administrators of Apartment Therapy are taking steps to avoid letting the community get like that. After all - it's just DESIGN, people! We're not saving lives here! - Well, except in terms of contributing to a greener planet. Hey, let's just have some fun and be inspired by each other, and call it a day.

Thanks Maxwell. Well thought out.

I am happy that you are taking care of this. Some people just bask in the negative.

About the whole censoring thing... there really are thousands of websites out there, and there is a boundless capacity for new ones that anyone can create. It's kind of like a little world or one's own little home that anyone can make for themselves, and pretty much anyone can enter.

So, it's really easy for people to build their own home; but then they really are within their rights to ask people to understand the spirit of their home and asking them to either watch the tone of voice, or to not smoke, or take their shoes off at the door, or don't curse in front of the children, or don't kick their dog.

Since this entire website revolves around making a comfortable home, I think it's especially appropriate to expect some respectfulness of others.

And yes, I've been in people's homes where people decide that the word "honesty" is a word that gives them carte blanche to rubber-stamp whatever kind of nasticities leap to mind, but personally, I run -- don't walk -- screaming into the New York night from those homes.

I like being in here, and I appreciate the tone that Maxwell sets.

Maxwell, thank you for the thorough & considerate explanation. I had gotten in the habit of skipping over any posts that had more than 20 or so comments for fear that it had steered into the nasty zone. I am glad to see that the site's integrity is so well protected.

I've just read the posts since I myself posted a comment. As an architect I realize I ought to have abandoned the happy world of Apartment Therapy some time ago: it's really operating like a high school study hall conversation. There seems to be more concern about feeling good than about design quality and integrity. And while yes, it's not the US government [with respect to protecting free speech], it is a commercial web site, making money, paying salaries and sending its owner out to the Hamptons to recuperate from its readers' inanity.

My mistake - had found it a sometime-design resource but now realize it's about "comfort". As the clergy is often reminded: comfort the uncomfortable, and make the "comfortable" uncomfortable.

good luck to you, marco.

Marco -- freedom of speech comes with responsibility. There is a vast difference between these two phrases:

"I myself don't care for the color green but even so I can see that you have used it in a creative way in this room."

"You painted your walls green? That's really stupid. No one uses that color these days. Yuck."

The latter statement is personally insulting, without critical value and -- to borrow your word -- infantile. Requesting that people express themselves with respect and courtesy is not censorship -- it's simply adult.

lemme guess—Mr. Green got the boot?
yeah, never a constructive keystroke came from his fingertips.

we REALLY do not need to start in on why, how and where a person takes his vacation again, okay? that is really unnecessary.

I agree with Curtis's comment above. That's what I wanted to say and couldn't work out how to say it!

I can guess who the second banned person was: the Bobby Berk spammer. She made a comment to a thread a day or two that I noticed was promptly removed, and I haven't seen her since.

I'm not sure that I would do differently than Maxwell if I ran the web site, but as a reader and occasional participant, I do feel uncomfortable with this descision.

I went back and reread MrGreen's comments, and if you read them in a row you (or at least I), get the sense of a kind of rough, probably socially awkward person, who is trying to be helpful, and occasionally funny--though the humor doesn't often work as intended.

To those who were "afraid" to comment because of fear of response or found themselves letting a comment affect them negatively later on, I don't know, this seems really thin-skinned to me, I can't imagine being so upset by comments on a website (unless maybe I ran it) that it would affect me later on.

The site itself has been really helpful though, thanks for all the work in keeping it going.

I appreciate "Kat1" delineating between a reasonable comment and one that is biased, opinionated and of no further use to the recipient. And I wish she/he had continued, because here lies the heart of the solution. Short of censorship, how do you get a participant in the postings to understand that the comment ["You painted your walls green? That's really stupid. No one uses that color these days. Yuck."]? Maybe you can't, I don't know. I'd like to think one can make someone question their color choice by opening a new set of ideas and suggesting metaphors that might help them see new possibilities. If only we could mark or flag comments that are not so much failing to be in the spirit of a helpful dialogue but truly are not in the open-minded spirit of good design.

Again, I like Kat1's distinction but I still wonder if the latter comment [see above] merits censorship or merely being ignored. And even if I hated green I'd defend someone's use of the color - maybe that's the solution: our standing up to design bullying. But I still am squeamish about censorship. Thanks, Kat1.

Oh thank goodness. Not that anyone here cares, but I actually stopped reading AT for a little while b/c some participants' rudeness starting bugging me. Having read Usenet for years, I'm usually pretty good about ignoring posts that I dislike. Unfortunately, the format of AT's comment section makes it difficult to skip over posts.

It would require changing the commenting code, but I'd love to have a "blacklist" associated with my account so that I can mark certain other users as "just don't show me their comments". That way, I can automatically skip comments that I don't want to read, but other people could still read them if they wanted.

Marco, if you define "comfort" as requiring people to act like civil adults (see example by Kat1), then I'm all for "comfort".

Marco, I don't think he was making anyone (at least, not me) uncomfortable about my comfortable design opinions. And that's part of the point. It was his meta-comments about the site, the 'necrothread' harangue, the 'you can criticize me but only if you learn to READ first', 'you shouldn't use smiley faces in your comments [refers to self] doesn't approve' comments that were offensive. And they did (again, for me, even though I made it a point to ignore him and had almost no exchanges with him) make a beautiful site and community less so. As an architect, you must appreciate how spaces influence people. This site has a shape, a feel, a space, for me - and it was alarming to see how quickly one polluting source was seeping into everything. It's not about comfort, it's about being able to see the original point of the posts, questions, and comments about design.

marco -- the larger question you are asking here involves what constitutes public and private space and do the issues of courtesy and censorship change as you go from the one to the other.

Is a department store -- a commercial space -- a public space or a private one? most stores do "reserve the right" to eject anyone they deem disruptive to the commerce they wish to transact. Would you say they are censoring free speech, or creating a space for people to shop?

What about a coffee house where people come to chat and exchange ideas?

How is an Internet entity more (or less) public (or private) than a traditional space?

How would you as an architect set up a program to allow for this? What design solution would you propose? Virtual or virtuous?

BTW, I would argue that AT is run as a private site to which interested members of the public are invited. Would that change the considerations?

marco

stay. c'mon dont let one lil thing sway you away.

stick it out.

As a lawyer, allow me to clarify the distinction between government suppression of speech and AT's banning of rude commenters. The first is a first amendment violation, a.k.a. censorship; the second is what we call "tough tiddies."

This site is run by Maxwell, owned by Maxwell. If he wants to change something, anything, he can, it's his right. Our rights are to read or not read, belong or not belong. Nice to know we have such high flying folks like lawyers and architects to set us regular people on the right path.

Jenny, that was exceptional.

I agree with Marco and Josie, with this ban AT risks losing its critical edge. I have enjoyed (although often disagreed with) Mr Green's tongue-in-cheek, provocative comments and because he is sometimes very blunt these comments have necessarily been responded to and balanced by impassioned and interesting discussion from other AT users. Reading back through his comments I'm surprised that they warrant this expulsion.

where are you p(2)?

While I am not sure about the policy banning individuals, there was something very disturbing about MrGreen's comments on various threads. Personally, I would never characterize his comments as provocative or tongue-in-cheek, just self-righteous, pretentious, and spiteful. I have to say that his comments seriously dulled my enjoyment of this site, warts and all, and I was often left with a serious bad taste in my mouth, particulary the "get a better education, so you can make more money in order to live here or live in the maids' quarter" thread. The undercurrents and intimations of his particular "opinions" on that subject were totally repulsive. However in all fairness, Maxwell's posting about "camo design" and the military left me me with a worse than rotten taste in my mouth. Even more repulsive...design ideas from suffering... not my thing at all. I'm sure military families are "dying" for new curtains and home porn.

So as you see, it cuts both ways...

sea, it's like you wrote my comment for me! i personally stopped coming to AT and reading the comments, not because they made me "uncomfortable" as marco suggested, but because i thought they were getting to be nothing but catfighting among commenters, and for me the point of reading comments was to see other people's opinions on the topic at hand, not to read a bunch of nasty infighting. i don't care what mr.green or whomever else has to say about each other and their opinions, i care about finding useful tips and constructive criticism on decoration and design.

ami, i love the blacklist idea.

and what does "as an architect," mean anyway? no thanks to elitism!

I only stumbled upon this website recently and really enjoy it but found I have noticed that some of the comments have been somewhat mean-spirited. I thought it might just be me, as I am from Texas and we take care to "be sweet." The closest we usually come to a full on diss is when we say "bless his heart." I like what was said about the mission of HELPING people make their homes more beautiful. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I recently purchased a 1960s ranch with popcorn glitter ceilings, wood paneling and carpet everywhere. Lord knows I need tough love. But I'd prefer it be dispensed with a little sugar on the side. Thank you!

am i on?

Wow, this is probably the nicest site I visit!! Because of that I probably behave myself even moreso than on other sites and i enjoy the posts much more too. That being said there is this "mom" blog I go to and they are a bunch of nasty rude bee-otches on it!

Thank you! Thank you! My response to the offenders is to close the window and move on (to another site or a book). Who knows how many great posts I've missed. Don't wait so long next time.

Regarding Amy's comment: In mentioning making the comfortable uncomfortable while comforting the uncomfortable I was referring to the somewhat tongue-in-cheek advice given to young ministers that they, in their sermons, make the wealthy and powerful squirm in their pews while those in need are reminded that “the meek shall inherit…” etc. As it applies to design, I think there’s a need to make those who can afford to renovate 5000 square feet of Manhattan penthouse space with a multi-million dollar budget wonder if that is in fact the best use of the money. Fortunately AT has championed small and affordable, but every once in while something not so small and certainly not so affordable creeps in – but we all have to admit we enjoy seeing how the other half live.

Quite frequently AT presents a very modest project that is utterly delightful and appropriate – and these are the projects (and individuals) that I feel need our praise. Most AT readers are not design professionals but many manage to achieve design solutions that are outstanding, brilliant and so very evocative. It’s the occasional over-the-top project that annoys me, or else it’s the hideously expensive one-of-a-kind piece of furniture presented without comment. Despite the threat of being blacklisted, I’m going to find it hard not to post a comment wondering if design excess on unlimited budgets is any less offensive than the comments we’re concerned with here. I’m really all for comfort, but I most pleased when someone manages to make themselves comfortable with slight resources but with unlimited resourcefulness. AT presents a lot of such work, and I can be comfortable with that.

I support this decision as well. There are lots of design sites out there, move along, nasty people.

i recall thinking... 'wow.. wonder how long this site will be around', after i saw how crude it was getting. degradation in spirit of delivery is deadly for any community. online or otherwise, private or publicly held.

Kat1 - mm, well said.

ami - great idea. would cover the 'abuse of' potential... of the 'teeny weeny' idea - though 'tw' sounds so much funnier... :) - going, going.. *poof*

JonathanB, bellaknollie - loved your comments. leading by example: this is what the most widely affecting designer/decorator/archi.. wait, the most widely affecting (successful) anyones... do.

GECD - understandable, to be sure, to be sure. if i may be so bold, though, the above guidelines don't dictate perspective, but rather, the manner in which they are served up. freedom of opinion and speech aren't the issue.

Maxwell - thank you. this site has been one of my great delights this year the 'oomph' i needed to slap that semi-gloss aubergine on my little wall already :). *ugh* i can hear them groan. thru AT, i've fully embraced living in a small cool!

I joined this group because I was encouraged and enlightened by everyone's experiences with life in general. And, while some of us do not always like the results, everyone's efforts, seem to be from the heart. I like the honesty of everyone and am disappointed when someone gets pleasure from snippy, snide remarks. One of the greatest virtues, (from having reaised 4 boys) is forgiveness. It is tough to teach and tougher to learn.........

I stopped reading the comments section of brownstoner.com when things started getting ugly. Eventually, I stopped visiting altogether. I'm glad something is being done to keep AT comments from straying into hostile territory. It just gets old to read the same negative crap over and over. There is indeed enough negativity online.

hi, my name is bellaknollie, and i am addicted to AT .
now, where is the coffee and cupcakes, cause im not a fan of donuts...sticky fingers...

hahahahha

im super pleased all this got worked out.
i knew it was bound to happen.

and marco, we might not all be professional on paper..but i think we all can agree on beautiful world of design and what it has and sometimes what it doesnt have to offer each person.

:) * OHH i did a smiley face..and i dont care..hahhahahah*

so who else is going to DWR on thrusday?

moonbeam -- thank you. if I had any decency I'd blush. but I fear I'm too much the old coot to lead by example. or by cattle prod.

bellaknollie -- I'll probably toddle downtown. I liked the first one and was sorry to miss the second.

I've been lax in my AT visits lately, until yesterday when I started looking again.

This McGreen character started popping up and before I knew it I hit his profile tab just to see what other comments had been posted.

I immediately thought..."Oh dear, he must be off his meds....so unhappy".

Anyway, kudos to Maxwell and the community for taking action.

Years ago, I saw another message board go from bad to worse...up to, and including lawsuits over some slanderous acquisations that were made. On a friggin' pet lovers board.

So, the owner of the site appointed 3 moderators to screen the vile posts. It stopped immediately....but over the course of the intervening years, it's become more of a coffee klatch of bored housewives....Not terribley interesting and informative, but oh, so polite.

I hope there will always be room for constructive critique and caustic humor, but guys.....take your meds before you post.

Maxwell,
Your post is well written. I appreciate your dedication to this community, and as a long time reader (but newer poster), thank you for setting the tone. I think AT is one of the best maintained blogs out there.

Also, I feel guilty for my recent Barbie Camper comment.

jonathanb-

im going to try to leave work on time. key word is : try.
like i tried to leave on time today....yeahhhh didnt happen.

I see the thought in showing examples of the difference between constructive criticism and insults, but I still think those shown here are not clear enough examples of the ones the issue is really about.

However, I'm sure those who follow the Small Cool and Color contests know of much more offensive ones. Some of those in the past were so horrendous, they actually made me feel wary of the anonymity of online society, in general. Just so that we can be clear, here are a few of the ones we should never have to see again:

"Far too frickin' cheerful for my tastes. It makes me want to kick the cat. It reminds me of a candy store, or an ice cream parlour. A violet door? Jesus."

"This is what I call design disaster. Is this an 80's hunting lodge or what?"

"Somebody needs to call a plumber - there's crap EVERYWHERE!"

"ewwww!what a waste of a great space!"

Of course the ones I really wanted, where a commenter questioned the apartment owners' morals doesn't seem to be on the site anymore (from the 1st Color contest, a navy blue and dark red basement)

So even though my examples seem a bit lame, worst ones were out there and those are the ones that need to be eliminated. IMHO

Oh dear, I'm happy to say I missed the negative comments that resulted in a ban, but my first guess was of course MrGreen. I dont think he was socially awkward, I think he went out of the way to be spiteful in a prose reminiscent of an earlier banned 'designdabbler'.

I fully agree with bklnJason above, this is maxwells party and he can absolutely ask an individual to leave. that person is free to shout as loud as (s)he wants outside.

Heres to a more congenial future....

Aw man, you banned MrGreen?! He was funny, it's too bad nobody got his sense of humour. :( I always looked forward to his comments...

I'm really glad some action was taken. I was concerned about the growing negativity on AT. I think the small button is a really creative solution. In the meantime I don't think it's appropriate to name names and guess who might be banned. I think that's kind of mean.

Thanks for doing this, Maxwell, and for posting about it so that I know to come back. I had stopped coming to the site because of MrGreen's crap. I'm not thin skinned, and he never even pointed his e-spittle at me, I just didn't like having to wade through his nonsense to figure out if there was anything useful in the comments. Some people really wish to be arbiters of taste solely to feel as if they're better than others. I blame reality TV.

Maxwell -- thank you for facing a difficult decision and making a choice that benefits this community as a whole.

Asking posters to respect common bounds of decent behavior in no way precludes them from stating blunt opinions, taking provocative viewpoints, or using humor. It does make AT a uniquely supportive and positive place. I'm glad to see steps taken to ensure AT continues to be a wonderful place to meet and share ideas.

Um, you are blocking by IP address? Did I read that right?

That makes me bit worried, since those of us with internet service that assigns us dynamic IP addresses could end up being blocked if someone else on, say AT&T DSL, gets themselves blocked and we get that blocked person's IP address next time we connect. And the blocked person would no longer be blocked as soon as they reconnect and get a new IP.

I've had this problem occasionally when I get an IP of someone else that spammed and their IP address was email blacklisted. It would be really sad to have that happen with AT!

Can't you just block the person's login? Or are you expecting them to try to create new logins?

I think this is an excellent step. I recognize all of the comments referenced by Sea that were spouted by a certain mean-spirited commenter. After reading a few rotten comments with no good ones in between, I got so sucked in by his rudeness that I even clicked on his profile and scouted his latest posted comments! And I couldn't believe that the vast majority were so belittling and unconstructive. It sounded as if he came to the site just to trump someone else's ideas with "better" ones or cut them down entirely, and that completely counters the purpose of this site. Censorship schmensorship. If you're going to be nasty, go somewhere else.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! It needed to be done. I too had begun to just skip over any long comment thread because of how hostile things were getting, and I was really starting to miss AT and and how friendly and encouraging it used to be. Who needs abuse when you're doing something just for the love of it?

Jonathan B presents some terrific questions and a fair set of examples. I'm guessing the answer to how to deal with inappropriate postings (and I think there's a genuine agreement here about which ones those are) was proposed earlier (by Amy?) suggesting that part of our member profile allow us to block those whose posts we find offensive. Already I can imagine problems with that.

After a reasonably good night's sleep, I think I'm coming around to the notion that this site's owner/mentor ought to be allowed to block egregious offenders. Would Maxwell consider an ombudsman for this? Some of the community members seem to have a pretty good sense of the problem and could tackle the problem - I admit I am unfamiliar with the postings of the two who've been banned.

This issue has caught me off guard since I haven't encountered any commentary that disturbed me - I've read some comments that seemed silly and unhelpful, but nothing truly mean. But clearly there's been a problem and it seems that banning is the only feasible solution. Seems fair.

lisa from va-
i think you are referring to the awful comments following this entry
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/fall-colors-2006-east/9-amys-entertaining-basement-013201
they too stood out in my mind as callous and downright nasty...especially coming from those who did not enter the contest themselves and put their own spaces up for ridicule.

i'll admit..i told mrgreen to bite me. i was beyond annoyed at him. and then he gave me some silly remark. i had to laugh. i figured he was someone who maybe had a few issues and was 10 cents short of a dollar if you know what i mean.

Polkadot- thanks for the link..holy crap though, talk bout snarky comments. i hope the person that posted the pics didnt get to upset. while i agree, i could have done without certain things, i like that she gave it her all and it expresses who she is.

but wow...those comments...i think ppl were sipping on haterade that day.

are there other basement house tours? i think i keep asking this question alot..hahhaha ok...im off to work.

if i havent mentioned it before. this site and everyone in it ( good , bad, and even the designed challenged) rock.

Whew, thank you Maxwell! Things were getting nasty out there.

bellaknollie
here are 3 basement house tours--i'm sure I've seen others here, but who has time to scour for them?

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/fall-colors-2006-main/fall-colors-2006-finalist-7-014679

http://chicago.apartmenttherapy.com/chicago/fall-colors-2006-midwest/2-marilyn-and-peters-home-studio-harmony-013079

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/post-your-baby/readers-bedrooms-olyas-gift-018679

Bravo!

In the words of my 4 year olds when encountering an overreaction to some event:

How sad, too bad, never mind.

Polkadot...
thanks!!

seeing those links...i realize i should ask my stepdad ( an electrician) to hook up my lighting situation..

love the links!

-kellen - that was my first thought, too! I go to Michigan so I feel a little shunned. *sniffle*

anyway, I agree that a site owner should be able to block certain commentators. and thank you for coming out and mentioning it to us. I know there has been a few flare ups about mean comments lately so it's a good thing to bring up.

While this is Maxwell's site and I respect that and he can do with it as he pleases, I'm going to have to say that I'm with Marco and Josie on this one. (Though not with Marco on the price of design. Sometimes good design is pricey. I thought this site was about small spaces, not small budgets.) If we expect everyone here to act like adults, then why not be adults ourselves and ignore the few who cannot comply.

In regards to negative comments towards people's spaces, this is The Internet. A public forum, if you will. Each post here is done with the preexisting knowledge that *everything* will but put out there. Out for anyone and everyone's judgment. I think it'd be incredibly naive of anyone to think that every space will be loved by all. We all have different design opinions. While some people could be nicer about said opinions, we *are* adults. We should not have to be coddled.

In regards to mean flames that attack the poster/designer/personal self and not the space or product itself, then I could understand censorship.

Marco took the words out of my mouth:
"This issue has caught me off guard since I haven't encountered any commentary that disturbed me - I've read some comments that seemed silly and unhelpful, but nothing truly mean. But clearly there's been a problem and it seems that banning is the only feasible solution. Seems fair."

In response to gretchen's comment: "If we expect everyone here to act like adults, then why not be adults ourselves and ignore the few who cannot comply."

I would happily ignore the post(er)s that I dislike, but the format of the comments makes it difficult. Based on others' comments in this thread, it got to the point that trying to skim over the undesirable comments was more effort than reading AT was worth. And so people move on.

In the interest of preventing scenarios that force people to move on, I still believe that individual blacklists are a better idea than the teeny weeny because it prevents potential abuse (e.g. X begrudges Y, so X teenyweenies everything Y posts regardless of content). I'm confused at how it could be abused, since it's done by the user X and only affects user X. The only downside -- besides rewriting the commenting code -- is that X would miss out on all of Y's comments; however, this is X's choice.

That said, individual IP bans are a lot easier, but I do worry that it will be a problem with those with dynamic IPs.

since AT isn't the only site dealing with these issues, "Rules of Engagement" from another (very different :) site i sometimes visit: http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/the-rules-of-engagement/

see especially the censoring/free speech links.

Thank you, Maxwell. Keep up the good work!