apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Of course something like that could happen at the Red Hook store -it is planned to be the largest in the US. But more likely will be traffic jams like you've never seen, and worse still, fatalities. When that many cars and trucks mix with pedestrians (there is a playground and large park next to the store entrance), pedestrians often lose, and lose big. Is even one life worth a few hundred jobs?

wow, a consumer's riot in britain.

I think the sad thing about these "big box" stores in Brooklyn is that they're not built for pedestrians. Home Depot can barely be reached by sidewalk - there's no crosswalk, either. Lowes is marginally better, and at least has provided hopeful street furniture along the Gowanus Canal. What Ikea needs to do is provide a way for Brooklynites to get there without a car - public transportation is already a problem in Red Hook, so it makes traffic jams a fait accompli.

What about having Ikea pay for extra bus service out to Red Hook? Building extra parking spaces and faster highways will only increase the traffic problem. New Yorkers aren't stupid - we'll find the fastest and easiest way to get around, be it driving or taking public transit or walking or biking.

-A Proud Gowanus Valley Resident

Good lord redhookresident! It's like you want the place to not only fail, but take out as many innocent bystanders as possible... No area in the city can simply stay in stasis, and at least it's IKEA and not Wal-Mart. I don't know anything about your neighborhood or its problems, but I am glad that there's going to be an IKEA somewhere in the city. While I hope I never trample someone for a cheap couch, I do like the store.

Severn -- Apparently they're going to run a ferry service from lower Manhattan out to the store, which is great for perma-pedestrians like me...

Yeah, thank god you're not living in Rego Park *sarcasm*
www.nytimes.com/2005/02/10/nyregion/10walmart.html

It's an Ikea, not the Rapture.

well mary, when an Ikea moves into YOUR neighborhood, you may sing a different tune about Swedish do-it-yourself furniture. Until you do know anything about my neighborhood and its problems, maybe you should withhold judgement. To say that I am wishing to "take out" pedestrians is callous and thoughtless. Isn't an Ikea in Newark and Long Island enough for you? I guess it's too inconvenient for you to take the free shuttle bus from port authority to the newark ikea...

You were the first to mention fatalities, redhookresident. I sympathise with my fellow pedestrians and I hope they get it all figured out, but you were the person who said IKEA's going to kill us all...

I would rather have an IKEA than either that ConEd power plant down the block from me or the ugly-ass yuppie building they're putting up on Astor Place. I live the East Village, and my neighborhood has also gone through its own gentrification and rebuilding since I came here a decade ago... I didn't like it when KMart moved in, I'm only half-happy about the Home Depot taking over the old Mattel space on 23rd and that ugly building on Astor Place is, well, ugly. Still, I'd rather see my city growing and changing than decaying or staying in stasis, even if it means the fancy building down the block starts renovating loudly at 7am for a year and a half. My hometown is across the river from another small town that doesn't have a WalMart or a mall. I'd much rather have nicely balanced construction and proper development than runaway sprawl, but as ugly as those big box buildings are, I'd rather live in a living town than a slowly decaying one.

red hook is not decaying, nor was it in stasis before ikea. it's been a developing neighborhood for years. whether you like ikea or not, i don't think you can say it's ikea or a stasis. and it would be hard to deny that ikea will not just just contribute to red hook's evolution, it will single-handedly redefine the neighborhood. gentrification in manhattan is a lot different from a place like red hook if for nothing but traffic alone. people will drive to ikea.

I keep thinking about this, and what bothers me most about the Red Hook/IKEA debacle and the recent Upper East Side/garbage shouting match is that both have this really strong whiff of NIMBY classism about them. Both hold up the possibility of childrens' deaths in traffic as a reason to not have the development, when really it's about property values and ugly buildings. [Although there was a recent nytimes article on children dying in industrial neighborhoods near the gowanus canal, so I understand red hook resident's concern. I also don't like that IKEA will build their traditional legoland-looking store. The 1850's buildings looked fine to me -- couldn't they keep them as a shell at least?]

IKEA will keep that part of the waterfront in Red Hook middle class and I think that's what bothers people. New townhouses or an upscale mall would have fewer complaints, even if there was the potential for the same volume of traffic. I can't afford to go out dancing in the meatpacking district now, but five years ago it was my favorite area for nightlife. My late-night bagel store now sells couture. I would rather have IKEA there than Stella McCartney.

Again, mary, you do not understand the issues surrounding ikea or what I originally said.

It is a fact that at least four children have been killed in traffic accidents in red hook and gowanus in the last year -all were hit by trucks (as you pointed out). That is a tragedy. Yes, I said that Ikea will increase the chance of accidents involving pedestrians -that's a given when traffic greatly increases in an area without adequate roads to handle it (many red hook roads are single lane and cobblestone). What I did NOT, I repeat NOT say, is that I was hoping for accidents or fatalities to happen -please stop saying that.

Red Hook can't be accused of NIMBY-ism. We are a working and lower middle class neighborhood that has been taken advantage of by developers. The Ikea originally wanted to put its store on the other side of the Gowanus Canal closer to Park Slope. Guess what happened? People in Park Slope didn't want it too close to them. They sued to stop the project. Now that the store will be in Red Hook, most people in Park Slope that I've talked or read about think it's a great idea. They are the ones guilty of NIMBY-ism, not Red Hook.

Also, as hijiki pointed out, Red Hook is not in stasis or decaying -it is growing and reviving and there is plenty of development going on that is good for the neighborhood, such as housing and many small businesses. There is a Fairway opening soon, and we will also have a passenger cruise ship terminal. These are large but appropriate developments (Red Hook has no grocery store and the cruise ship terminal will retain maritime usage on the waterfront. Ikea is not a good use of prime waterfront property).

Inappropriate development such as the Ikea will completely overrun the neighborhood. There's a huge difference between having an Ikea down the street versus having a Stella McCartney shop. Please.