apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Just turn the comments off until finalists are chosen, and let us comment on those. If you give entrants a choice, there will be viewers who perceive "comments off" as cowardly and vote against the entry for that reason only.

A universal "no comments" policy also removes all the enforcement issues related to preventing outside links, as well as discussions of when the entry appeared in Dwell.

I checked "other" because although I can understand the concerns, there should be an alternative option so viewers can at least relay questions about the colors, brands, choices etc. that may not be apparent in the initial posting. Perhaps if they were screened or relayed by someone from AT's office?

I checked "other" because I kind of agree with something along the lines of what wende says.

I think that inclusiveness is nice, but I have to say that it will soooo very much UNlevel the playing field to give a choice, especially since we have been told in recent past contests that when some portion of this is being judged by a panel of judges, that they actually take the comments into account, then that bit of input will be skewed quite unevenly.

The only way you'll be able to have no comments, is to actually make the entire thing without comments, or like wende says, for perhaps at least the first round. Because in subsequent rounds, contestants might at least console themselves with the fact that they've been brought to a second round before they have to face any negative comments.

I'd love to see a bury function implemented similar to what you see on sites like digg. It would be cool and helpful if the users themselves could exercise some control over the comments. That seems to be happening anyway with rebuttal comments. With a bury feature though you could more-or-less dispose of the nonsense or offense without everyone having to become involved and lowering the discourse. This would make the comments much easier to read, less upsetting and more useful. Plus it would be by consensus, which fits with the idea of an online "community".

I also like the idea of closing comments for the first round and allowing comments for the finalists. An email or something could be provided for people to ask about paint colors etc.

...or just require that entrants disclose their paint colors in the entry...

At this point, it's known that viewers will want names for the paint colors we like, and it won't hurt us to be told the names of the ones we don't like.

I am definitely with mgn. I think the AT community would happily rise to the occasion and flag offensive comments. Similarly to craigslist, if a comment is flagged a certain number of times, it could automatically disappear.

At the same time, it would be nice to have a function where a particularly good comment can be "recommended" or "seconded." That would help useful comments rise to the top, and save people the time of saying "I agree with so-and-so."

I like the idea of having no comments all around until the finalists. Personally I never read the comments until after I vote because I want my reaction to the space to be honestly mine and not skewed by what other people think.
It also seems like often the comments are the opinions of the few and the loud and don't reflect the voting numbers. So I would be a little bothered if they do in fact influence the judging.

As someone who entered the contest I found the comments section to be quite encouraging. The opportunity to have any positive feedback far outways the risk of having a few negative ones. It can be up to the individual entirely if they decide to read the comments.

digg is the best option and it makes the most sense. sites other than digg use the same mechanism, so it can definitely be done. (see rocketboom)

I don't think that providing an "on/off comments" option will necessarily make the contest better. The way I see it, if you are entering a contest on AT, you are putting yourself in the public eye on a site that is in many ways centered around members' commentary. Negative & harsh feedback is most certainly going to come -- but you will also receive positive, supportive feedback as well.

The thing is, there are a few members who are pretty consistent about their nasty, cranky comments. And, they consistently get shut down by the rest of us who are a little less biased.

If you want to enter an AT contest, you obviously have confidence in your home decor. If people don't agree with your taste or style and are asses about it in their comments, I don't know why you would let that affect you. But, if you really can't take it, just don't read the comments left about your entry. Or don't enter.

I don't know if I like the idea of comments off. Not particularly because I tend to comment negatively towards contestants, actually I generally only comment if I truly like something I see. Moreso because it starts here, and then I fear veto of comments will escalate into other areas.

Discussions are invaluable to this community, and quite frankly the reason I visit this site more than any other. I am not a professional designer, so sometimes I look at a picture of someones home and my reaction to it is either positive or negative and I am not quite sure why. Comments that others bring to the table help me to realize what I like or dislike and give me ideas of how to implement or avoid those things in my own space.

If you put yourself out there, especially for others to "judge", you need to understand criticism (hopefully constructive) is fair play. After I post this I may get a fair share of my own. That said, I do understand the concern that some of the comments are rude and downright hurtful when it's completely unnecessary.

Perhaps there is a better way to deal with the problem? I run a phpBB board and every member has the ability to "warn" an administrator about a post another member has made that they felt has crossed the line by simply clicking on an icon in said members post. We can look at the flagged post and decide to either warn the member ourselves, delete the post, ban the member, or ultimately ignore it if it wasn't that big of a deal. Something similar implemented here may prove useful since it doesn't involve administrators reading through every comment. It may force members to think a bit more about their wording before they post.

I like mmadden's suggestion for a craigs-like flagging system. I think we have to keep in mind that it's not just the comments that are hurtful . . . my heart goes out to the folks who offered up their pics with good intentions and then received an avalanche of long-shot votes. But I think if you're going to put yourself out there you have to be prepared for some negativity. My advice is always to focus on the positive and write off the negative as sour grapes or the noodlings of malcontents.
Ever notice that the bitchiest comments come from people who didn't even enter?

If your worried about comments offending you, have the comments screened by a friend? I think the comments (and questions posed to the entrant) can be interesting. Plus the commenting overall feels like such an integral part of AT!

It would be nice to have a way to bury snarky comments by concensus. I do think most of the community abides by Grandma's old line - If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything!!!

I think AT should find a way to screen rude, vicious comments such as today's "God this is a horrible, horrible room. HOW CAN YOU SCREW UP THE light blue & chocolate brown COMBINATION! Somehow you managed. God awful. And even worse, in PLAIN DAYLIGHT you managed to darken this into an 80s comeback, over-decorated, definitely-non-boutique-hotel, UGLY room. Shame on you."

as someoe who entered, it is risky to put yourself out there, but it kinda comes with the territory of an open competition. basically, i think comments are an integral part of the experience, but would be nice to monitor them a bit and a flagging system seems community-oriented and consensual.

Comments can be a joy to read, and the thought of receiving positive comments makes me look forward to doing up my home and entering the next competition.

And the idea that some comments may be negative would never be a disincentive for anyone who's confident with their design choices. Those are the sorts of entries we want!

For anyone else, there's the Questions feature; AT readers are more than charitable when people ask for help and advice in the correct forum. An annual contest is not the time for timidity.

I agree that persistent negative / unconstructive commenters should be weeded out via a community vote. But this should be done within reason; sometimes entries just aren't that good.

Come on people. Put on your big girl panties or stay at home! Reading others snarky comments and becoming enraged is half the fun.

Wende has brilliant ideas...turn off the comments until the first round is over, and give contestants opportunity to list paint colors, sources for textiles, furniture and artwork in their initial submission.... It is so much more helpful to have the paint colors up front instead of having to request them...colors are more important than favorite type and brand of paint.

(Though I would miss commenting)

I don't like it! (my hands are on my hips and im stomping my feet) Leave the contest the way it is! Those harsh comments are pretty rare.

Lets hug and make up :)

It's a contest. People are competitive, especially designers and people who are in-tune with the design world. Some people have egos and are snotty but they are judging the work, not the person.

The truly obnoxious comments just get buried. I'll admit that I've laughed at a few of them though. But if someone is truly trying to destroy someone personally then that's another story. I've only seen that once or twice since I've been visiting this site.

I vote for leaving comments on, if for no other reason than to be able to communicate with the apt owner about paint shades, furniture brands, etc. People do such great things with their apts that even if SOME people here don't love it, there's an equal number of people who do, and want to know where they can find similar items.

EllieMae, I'm with you on this! Can't people handle criticism around here? If you are going to be such a withering daylily about it, it's quite simply, really; don't submit your place for consideration! And as for snarky commentary... I can't get enough. It keeps the discussion lively and entertaining, as well as truthful. Bring on the snark!

The thing I wish you could put a stop to is people who sign up with multiple names and use them to praise their own entry and to attack other entrants. We have seen this with colormyworld already, and I am sure there are others who are doing the same. Such behavior should result in automatic disqualification and removal from the site.

there's a big difference between snarky comments and truly useless, obnoxious ones. Even when I genuinely dislike an entry and get a little snarky, I try to temper my criticism with a helpful suggestion. That's a lot different from people like carliepop and snot, who are simply mean-spirited, borderline illiterate, don't seem to have any interest in design or the sharing of ideas/suggestions, and serve to shut down discussion and scare people away from sharing their homes. The latter group is what AT's editors seem to be concerned with.

Thus I think a solution that leverages the power of community would be the best (and would be a minimal burden for editors, who work their asses off already). Which comments get voted up or down would wholly depend on what the community thinks, and what level of snark we wish to tolerate. Power to the people!

Ok but if you like the colors of an entry that DIDN'T become a finalist how can you ask "hey great chair or what's the color of that paint?" if you can't comment until the finalist are choosen? Everyone isn't going to like your choices in colors and styles and furniture, but that's the risk you take in exhibiting your rooms. If you're going to limit comments to finalist only then remove comments all together. Why comment if you can't comment on everything?!

I think flagging comments that are not constructive but just mean-spirited and blocking the user name and IP is what most websites do. Usually they send back a few warnings to the offending party to behave more like an adult. I belong to some groups where they finally took a few members off permanently and it seemed to make the site more active. People don't enjoy being around jerks.

The whole idea of a website is to get interactivity up in a sharing format. I don't see how blocking comments would do that. How can you create a community if there is no forum for communication?
don

The comments are what I like most about these contests. I love reading what people see, notice, advice. Without comments it would be a bit empty, but then again I have read a few comments that are so rude and insulting that it may be better to turn them off. I would love to post pictures of my home here but am a bit scared of the merciless harshness I have seen until now. People who do this would probably never have the guts to say those things to the person in their face.

I don't come here just to vote. Or even just to look at people's homes.... I read the comments!

I learn so much from this community and its comments. I don't care if I can comment or not, but I really love reading other people's comments, especially the ones that explain what it is about a place that makes them react the way they do (positive or negative). I guess, in general, I'd like fuller explanations - rather than an unhelpful 'love it' or 'hate it' without bothering to say why or explain how the problem could be better solved.

What is the point of an online community if you cannot comment on what you see? How can discussions start and solutions to problems be found?

I would like a flagging feature.

I've found that when you click back to the profiles of some obnoxious posters (I have a few in mind) you find an entire page of obnoxious insulting comments. It's a thing for them and if it's more like a hobby than a negative comment now and then they should be warned about their behavior.

I also want to keep comments. That is the only way some contestants recieve explanations for their "longshot" votes.

I hate that some people might think their low scores are because their rooms are horrible when it doesn't have anything to do with the design or their color choices but because of something else. These are some reasons that I had to use in voting.

1) too many vignette pictures and no way to judge how the color relates to a whole room.
2) Designs that would place better in a general design contest than one focused on the use of color.
3) Paint use was just on the walls in a non-creative way and not incorporated in the rest of the design or furniture and accessory choices. Ex. Wall color is only example of that color in the whole room.

If you are going to be such a withering daylily about it, it's quite simply, really; don't submit your place for consideration!

That's what's happened. AT:SF didn't get enough entries to post one a day. Apparently more people want to be an audience for meanness than want to be the victims.

Personally, I'd like to understand why the people who say "everyone should toughen up" don't submit their own homes in contests.

I have no problem with criticism, so long as it is of the constructive genre, and free of the nastiness that seems prevalent. I'm sure that most entrants want honest appraisals, but would like to not feel as though they will be subjected to rudeness and ridicule. Some people seem to feel that because they can hide behind their (sometimes multiple, I suspect) usernames that they are free to berate and belittle others. I have noticed that there are not a lot of the same usernames that I remember from six months or so ago and can't help wondering if people were put off by the rudeness and no longer choose to be part of the AT community.

As one who throws in a bit of snark from time to time, I think we just have to recognize that everyone brings different reactions to the table. I'm sure I've said this before: I just don't understand the belief that people should only post positive reactions. I think people should just be honest. If a potential entrant is worried about what comments might be made, is there any reason why the entrant *has* to read the comments?

That being said, I'm totally cool with the flagging suggestion. To disallow comments altogether would rob this contest of its very soul.

Constructive criticism is one thing, i.e. "this is wonderful, but if you just added some bold pillows, it would really make the painting pop"...you have a suggestion and a reason for the suggestion. How about just banning the nasty, negative ritual abusers after repeated unconstructive comments?

I just joined TONIGHT, have been on here for 45 minutes, and I can already name at least 3 users who just need to go. Why would anyone want to post anything with these rampaging jerks on the loose? I do like the profile feature in which you can see all of a particular person's comments, so at the very least, the thicker-skinned among us will know not to take it too personally. Still, the artistic can be a sensitive bunch, and it would be heartening to limit this experience to a welcoming, warm community. Ban the @#$holes!!!!!

Or, what Lisa from PA/Isaspacey said. She's got it all right, so allow me to second it.

I don't want the comments to go away, but I'd like to see the process modified somehow. Although I'll never have a thick enough skin to enter any contests on AT, I do learn a lot from constructive comments on other people's spaces.

I do like the idea (mentioned above) of being able to agree with another person's comment or flag a comment as mean-spirited.

i vote for keeping them on. nice or not, comments are useful, interesting and part of what makes this site so appealing.
i do agree with those who claim that when you enter a competition you have to be ready to take the good with the bad, it's part of the deal.
even if at times i think the bad comments do go a little overboard! then again, so be it, just ignore and take the good.
but don't take the comments away, pls!

Keep the comments, institute the flagging. Here's my admittedly long explanation:

This online community is a mix of public and private space that defies normal rules of social conduct. If some of these comments were made in a professional setting, the offenders would likely lose their jobs. Made in a private setting like a housewarming party, the host and/or his friends would kick out the offender (take a cab, sober up, and don’t call me tomorrow). Comedy show hecklers, super noisy movie-goers, public disturbers – all are “politely” escorted out by security or cops.

But here, if the webmasters are not going to play that security role, it is up to the community to take care of business. There are always people who go too far...people who react to the photos and think it's important to say in as many capital letters as possible how much they disdain the entry. But those people are inevitably present in any community. They have potentially lost jobs, friends, and movie endings because of their inability to finesse the language and check the bluntness. They can’t lose too much here, which makes it all the more incredible that the community still steps up and handles its own hecklers. We're all a mix of colleagues, friends, and/or strangers in this setting. This community, much more than others, does a great job of determining which comments have gone too far, and an equally great job of standing up for the people who enter their homes in this contest.

As an aside, I don’t agree that when entering a contest you should assume you are subjecting yourself to some of the comments here. That is not necessarily true in other contest settings, particularly ones where judges make face-to-face comments. I’m surprised we’re at a place where we could believe that to enter an Apartment Therapy color contest means you have to have thick skin and expect, well, the worst. Maybe on American Idol, but in that setting the producers are hoping for the rudest comments possible. None of the really rude comments would be accepted in a poetry contest, a pup show, etc. Those people would lose their role as judge and never be asked back. We’re not making sensational TV here. We’re just interested in home design. The website's model relies on community members feeling comfortable enough to show their homes and projects and receive feedback in and out of the contest. The annual contest is absolutely "a time for timidity." Entering any contest can cause anxiety, self-doubt, vulnerability, etc. That's human. Humans actually don't have the "thick skin" some are attempting to claim.

I’m not as frustrated with the rude comments as I am impressed by all the positive comments, both constructive and supportive. One inappropriately negative comment generally elicits a number of thoughtful, interesting, and supportive ones. And for that, I hope to see comments, and the comments ABOUT the comments, continue. The flagging feature is a wonderful way to continue giving power to the readership. If the really “wounding” comments are not going to be escorted out by the AT webmasters, they can be escorted out by the community.

I agree with wende.

Every time the issue of controlling comments comes up, I am surprised by those who decry even the mere suggestion of any constraints on the basis that members should not be limited to just positive comments. I don't think anyone is advocating a policy under which your only choices are to make a positive comment, or no comment at all. The issue here is ridicule, which I am hoping that most mature adults can distinguish from contructive criticism or simple negativity. There is a huge difference between "in my opinion your color choices look dated" and "that's DISGUSTING, how the hell could ANYONE screw that combination up?!?" When you enter a contest, you certainly have to be thick-skinned enough to accept that not everyone is going to like your entry, and that you may even come out at the bottom of the heap (someone has to). But you shouldn't have to brace yourself for utter derision and ridicule. Those sentiments are of no value to the entrant or community, especially since they discourage folks from participating in the very contests that the community enjoys, is inspired by, and learns from. I believe comments are an integral part of this site, and as many have already mentioned, others' feedback often helps me understand why certain elements work or don't work in a particular space. Thus, I would not like to see comments disabled entirely. But I think a Craigslist-like flagging system would help the community regulate the haters.

Please keep the comments! AT is one of the few places where people are honest, which means when people get praise, they can really believe it's true. There are so many outlets for people who just want to show off and get false praise (other message boards, friends/family, etc.). This place is my refuge from the suffocating Lake-Woebegone-everyone-is-above-average syndrome. Here people feel free to point out when the emperor has no pants, and I for one find it refreshing, even when I don't agree with the opinion being expressed.

And that's the real beauty of it: I don't think I've seen a single entry that didn't have at least one nasty or lukewarm comment, and that is so liberating to me. I'm one of those people paralyzed by the thought that someone else will think I'm tacky. Since reading this site, I have learned it is TRULY impossible to please everyone, so just do what YOU think looks good and don't worry that someone else will think you have bad taste. Because it is true--someone, somewhere, thinks your taste sucks. Big freakin deal.

EllieMae, I couldn't agree more. Man (or Woman) up. What kind of world are we living in when people can't take criticism? Yes, mean comments are obnoxious. But this is not elementary school, if someone doesn’t like your paint colors, stop your belly aching and get over

it.

In the spirit of community, I agree with the ideas to downplay the unhelpful comments and play up the very helpful ones (even when they're critical).

Schoolie's comments are right on track. I'm certainly not asking for only positive comments, but to have the same few trolls add abusive comments for their own entertainment is neither helpful or welcome to many of us. I don't know anyone who has posted here, and no one knows me, but by signing on, we're a community. In a community, there should be some social rules that we observe. I can only imagine that a few who have been taken to task for their nasty comments either love the attention (positive or negative makes no difference to them as long as they are getting the attention), were never taught simple social skills and thus don't have too many people in real life who will put up with them so they take their frustrations out on strangers, or are in junior high and have decided to take over another community because they're bored with MySpace, etc.
I'm certainly no Mother Teresa or bleeding heart who can't stand constructive criticism, but the flamers out there really don't add a lot to the discussions. I do like the comments and hope to keep them, but hope that a decision will be made by the moderators to allow us to flag those comments that are overly harsh.