apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Is there anywhere that sells reclaimed wood in NYC? I know a lot of designers and artists use it but where do they get it? I've seen places online, but I've been putting off building some shelves and would prefer to reuse wood.

Olde Good Things sells reclaimed wood for floors. I'd check with them about reclaimed wood for other purposes.

I just visited my parents house where my father has been working on an additinal room for the last X years(decades) So my brother and i sort of got sick of it and finished it for him.

My brother was able to get a hardwood floor kit that matched the rest of the house for 1.25 a sq.ft. which was an amazing deal considering the next day when we where at home depot we saw the same floor for 6.93 (or there bouts) a sq. ft

the results are amazing

A lot of their less expensive flooring is "laminate," which means its a photo of a piece of wood under a hard plasticy coating. Those floor systems may include some wood in the backing that you can't see once its installed. Laminates are not wood flooring, they're a hard wearing costume flooring. At the higher end of Lumber Liquidators line they have some nice solid wood floors and engineered wood floors for 4-5$. While these are attractive be careful about what they call the wood. Their brazilian Koa is not the same as Hawaiian Koa. Santos Mahogany is not a true mahogany but rather a wood called Santos finished to look like mahogany. A neighbor put in 700 ft of the Brazilian "Koa" and it looks gorgeous despite what I know about its provenance.

Regards, Jonathan D.

I'm pretty sure it was real wood and not the laminate. I am aware of the laminate kits and tried to make sure we didn't use the "cheap stuff" on our parents home. For my personal residence I may have considered it but never for my parents home.

We just happened to get a killer deal.

Also some of the laminated stuff did look decent however we needed to have it be compatable with a heated floor system. (I wanted to be 100% sure)

Don't buy from Lumber Liquidators. My floor is comming up and warped and it's not even a year old. It's Brazilian Koa. Lumber Liquidators is not standing behind their product. If I had known I would have paid more or gotten a different kind of floor. I used an installer recommended by Lumber Liquidators and he thinks some of the wood was defective.

I bought some flooring from the Albany N.Y. store and it was so nice. I got the Austrailian Cypress. The salesman "Jay" was very helpfull!

Let me tell you that I have been working for this company for over 18 months; We sell almost every floor you can think of; Solid domestic and exotic, Bamboo, Engineered, laminates and even cork. We have closeouts for those who need a bargain and have top quality for those who want the best. And we do stand by our products. If you ever bought anything from us; look at the bottom of your invoice and read it. It advises you to inspect the floor before installtion and warrants we will replace any defects at no cost to you. If you did have a problem; call the store, if you didn't get the help you need for any reason then ask to speak with the regional manager. We also have a website where you can email the CEO directly and get a response within 24 hours. We have grown from 1 to 70 stores in less than 6 years; what does that tell you?

I also had a floor from lumber liquidators. They have no regard for the customer or their staff. Their floors are notorious for cupping and they always blame the customer or contractors. And then tring to get someone to come out and take a look at the floor. Yeah right. Sam Sullivan never returned any of my phone calls (12 total). Store manager was left to deal with me and my irate wife. We finally have replaced the floor with another company and had a great experience. The installer has now refused to deal with lumber liquidators for 5 floors he has seen done, by a few different installers, all the floors have either cupped, finished bubbling, or spliting. I have talked with other who had bellawood flooring installed and have not been what was expected. One customer was even told by Sam Sullivan " you get what you pay for!"

"We have grown from 1 to 70 stores in less than 6 years; what does that tell you?"

Tells me you're growing too fast. I've actually been in 12 of those stores and I would say perhaps 3 of them had experienced people that knew what they were talking about.

The company also advertises when product is out of stock constantly. Do people really have to wait 2,3 and sometimes six months? I don't think so. Just turn the sale down if they have to wait that long. It makes life much easier for everyone.

The name implies liquidation, but it doesn't do much good when Bob Vila and Rush Limbaugh
endorses it with that ridiculous 50 year warranty. The company did produce a decent quality product until about two years ago then everything went down hill. Why? I even had a store manager admit the quality was horrendous.

I am resonably familiar with hardwood flooring products and recently installed solid Brazilian cherry hardwood from Lumber Liquidators. I was completely taken by their low pricing and manufacturers warranty. Suffice to say it was a lessen learned. I'm not sure how they are able to make their claims of quality, but they are simply not true. I purchased premium quality flooring, which was 2nd quality at best. The color variations were beyond reasonable, and the milling of the wood was the worst I have ever seen, making impossible to achieve resonably tight and level joints without re-milling the lot. Even after discarding much of the worst pieces. Not being the type to typically complain, I spent more time than I hoped, tuffed it out and the floor looks OK. Although I was a bit dissapointed, I never mentioned this problem to the store.
My real disappintment came after the floor was installed. I had been waiting several months for the wood transition pieces I ordered to arrive. I received little more than half of them initially, and was continuously told the others would be in at some future date. The last time I went to see if they came in I was told that the computer showed I was given all of the pieces months ago. I then spoke with the store manager, Anthony, who I had spoken with many times prior. I wont repeat the discussion, but he told me that he knew I never recieved the pieces, but he was not going to eat the cost on them, so I was out of luck. Taken back, I called the home office, and was told there was nothing they would do, and would not refund the missing pieces. A relatively inexpensive lesson learned for me. I wish they were what they seemed, as I put in quite a few wood floors. Unfortunately, they are not. Buyer Beware!

I would recomment everyone investigate Lumber Liquidators completely before purchasing. They are bullies, they will make customers take down negative comments by threatening to sue. Sam Sullivan will abuse anyone and everyone. He is never wrong. They bait and switch all the time. They have cleaned up their internet complaints with legal actions and threats against people who tell the truth about them.
The cheap price is off set by the need to order 4 times as much product just to get enough good material to use. BUYER BEWARE

I have installed Lumber Liqidator wood in my home and have found it to be a quality product at a fair price. The company seems to keep prices low and fair by not caving to unjustified complaints and return requests. I hope they can remain in business and and provide a quality product in a litigious environment.

I visited LL today and chose the Koa wood. I am alarmed at the comments above. Does anyone have experience with the Phoenix store, and how can the quality of the wood and its milling be judged by the purchaser? Worried in Arizona!

I bought Hickory flooring from the Albany NY LL and could not be happier. The staff was very helpful, polite and answered all my questions. I ordered a little extra to make up for the added defects and I still came in $100's less then anywhere else. Another positive was the wood came in quicker then promised. I installed it myself and have had very few problems. I was a little suprised by the amount of defect (about 17%) but will use this wood and the extra to make a bar. Hickory is very unstable and I have had no warping, cupping or anything else. Not sure if I believe the finish will last 50 years but still love my floors.

I am a professional carpenter and haxe been for some 35 years. I know all about moisture in the sub strata as to installing wood floors. I installed almost 100 sq. ft of 3.5 inch maple plank from L.L. in my own home. Thank God for that for if it had beemn for a customer I would have had to eat the cost to protect my reputation. I paid $4.25/ sq. ft. and expected a quality product. What I got was anything but. The random lengths averaged less than 2 linear feet and the amout of unacceptable product approched 20%. With less than 7% moisture content in the subfloor I have experienced considerable cupping in less than 6 mo. time. There is also quite a lot of splitting and finish cracking taking place. As for the quality of the milling it was the worst I have ever seen. The width of the planks varied by as much as 1/8th" and the tongue and grooves seemed to be made by at least 4 or 5 different manufacturers. I have asked nothing from L.L. for my displeasure as I consider this a lesson well learned. If you read this and still buy from them shame on you. Hobie.

Hey, sorry about the typos in my previous post. That should have read 1000 sq. ft., we all know that been doesn't have an m in it and have is with av and not an x. Oh well, I am a carpenter, not a typist. Hobie

I am an installer in the Buffalo area, and I purchased over 700 sf of a 25 YR Durawood 3 1/2" Select Maple at $3.95 sf and the quality was unmatched. The milling was fantastic, I usually figure 7% waste and I ended up returning a box because the quality was so high. I deal with the Buffalo Lumber Liquidators on a regular basis and I never had a problem with quality. Initialy, I was a little concerned about quality as well, but the Buffalo Store Manager, John Stoyle, brought me into the warehouse and opened a box and showed me the quality of the wood. Over the past 3 months, I've put in a good share of Bellawood and the quality on that product is even nicer. Lumber Liquidators also has a 100% satisfaction gaurantee, that is, if a wood has a defective, before you cut or nail it, you can exchange it for good wood. Hobie may not be typist, but he is a carpenter that can't read, he should have never put in the wood and exchaged it.

As far as I'm concerned the wood I'm getting from my Buffalo Lumber Liquidators is much better quality than anything I've seen from Bruce, Vintage, Mirage, etc..

i'm thinking of purchasing some laminate flooring from LL. is this a bad idea?

Our 1,000 square feet of Brazillian "Cherry" Light from Lumber Liquidators was professionally installed (nailed) and it almost immediately cupped - over the summer no less. Our installer has never seen such cupping. I am heart broken. I do not recommend their service or product.

I have recently installed 3800 SF of the Nirvana V3 line from Lumber Liquidators and I can say that without a doubt, its the best product you are going to get for your money. I have put in Pergo, Shaw, etc.. all are over priced products that are still selling at that price because they are available everywhere. The random lengths and individual strips make the floor look as close to hardwood as a laminate floor can. As far as some comments above, cupping is caused by a few things; not giving flooring proper time to acclimate, high moisture content in flooring, not giving proper expansion room, etc...

Anyone know anything about L.L. teak floors? Not the engineered

I'm looking at the L.L. Australian cypress or Brazilian koa for living room and den that are decorated along the lines of Japanese country. Do these woods make sense design-wise and how does L.L. do on these products?

after ordering 583 sqft of brazilian santos mahogany from LL we were told it would take 14 -21 days well, that turned into over 2 months .I finaly picked up the floor ,stored it in the room were it was to be installed for a week for temp adjustment.Finally i started to install it after just 4 boards i noticed almost a 1/16 differance in board width,I stopped called LL and they told me not to install any more give them the mill name and they will replace it from another mill,and they will get back to me to let me know when the new product will be in I'm afraid this project will go on forever I'm not happy with LL but I'm not totaly pissed yet

i NEED MESSUITE OR MYRTLE AT A REASONABLE COST FOR 2500 SQ FT--ANY IDEAS???

I am considering the Nirvana V3. Anyone else have experience with it? It looks like a good product.

I installed the Nirvana V-3 Havannah Mahogany in my dining room. I was very pleased with the quality and price of the flooring (1.99 per sq ft). My room was 13.5' by 13.5'. The installation only took me 1-1/2 hours to complete. We choose this product because we had existing ceramic tile down. Instead of ripping it out we decided to go with the V-3 because we could put it directly on top of the tile. The best part of the V-3 is it looks like wood with the durability and ease of laminate. Another plus was the random lengths it came in. We will definatley be buying more to put in our kitchen.

I just returned 1800 feet of brazilian teak, bellawood with all the problems and defects as seen in the above posts. LL gave me a full refund, but is not willing to pay for the labor claim my crew spent on the first day to install. Tom Sullivan and Sam will not support their own mfg defects for the custome. What a waste of 3 months waiting to get this and had to order another anderson to finish the project.

After reading the above comments, not sure about LL. Has anyone had any experiences with the San Francisco Bay area location(Albany). Thanks in advance

We just purchased 90ft. of the Nirvana V-3 flooring from the Albany store. We have not installed it yet and are still waiting on the transition moldings, but so far the cases look OK and are not damaged.

One of the reasons hard wood flooring is "expensive" in real terms is that a real professional needs to install it. Installation of carpeting is a much easier and much less prone to problems. Same is true for the manufacturing of carpet. YOu do not need perfection machinery for carpet like you do in wood. As well carpet isn't affected by moisture absorption, unlevel subfloor, natural imperfections like wood is. Hard wood is expensive - manufacture, installation, care, - If you want a Cheap floor do not try to go cheap with wood.
I wanted a wood floor, but could not afford the installation and I KNEW that I would have problems trying on my own (my father is a home builder and I've seen hardwood floors installed my whole life). SO I chose the Schon Maple engineered flooring, and I think it is beautiful and no problems.
I agree with remodeler.

I too am not sure about them. I have 2400SqFt of the bellewood product on order. Has anyone ever had a good experience with LL when something went wrong (milling, finish, cupping, etc) What will LL support? Does anyone know of someone from LL reads these posts?

I am an installer, and I get a lot of work from Lumber Liquidators. Needless to say, I have seen almost all of their product. I also used to install for Home Depot, and when you compare LL product to Home Depot product, LL quality blows it away. Anytime I have had a problem with any LL product, they usually resolve the issue within a couple of days, without any major inconveniences. You have to be realistic, LL has never had a problem with exchanging wood, but if you install defective wood, that is your mistake, not theirs. They can be blamed for letting something get through quality control, but they are always willing to resolve the situation any way they can. I put the Bellawood Brazilain Cherry Light in my own house and would recommend any of their product.

I am in the Tampa Bay area and have been into the LL store on 41. Due to the comments above and the fact that I am installing the floor in 2 young boys' room, I am considering Nirvana V3 laminate and not real wood. Has anyone had trouble with this LL product? (I am afraid the quality of the wood there is poor and I'm also afraid that the boys will scratch/dent real wood.)

I bought 715 s.f. of Morning Star Bamboo from the Lumber Liquidators store in Phoenix. Within a month or so of installing the product, the boards began separating. I sent an email to the their sebsite and they sent out a "flooring expert". The "expert" measured the floor for moisture and he measured the floor for level. He said the sub-floor wasn't level and that was why it was coming apart. I asked him about the humidity factor and he said that these floors shouldn't be installed in dry climates.

The floor did not come with any installation instructiuons, it did not come woth ANY information at all about humidity, etc. . . All you get are boxes of wood, nothing more. Now my floor is cracking, checking, splitting and is all scratched, in addition to having big gaps between the boards. So, a small leveling problem in one area of one room is the cause for all of this? I don't think so.

Lumber Liquidators representative called me a few months ago and said that the problems with the floor are not their problem. I tried to talk to her, but she basically said to get a lawyer.

Here's the scoop and my next plan of action. I am going send them a letter giving them an opportunity to make things right by refunding me my money, or giving me a new floor (not bamboo!). If this doesn't work, I have a legal trick up my sleeve that will cost them about 3 times the cost of my floor.

BILL,

LUMBER LIQUIDATORS SHOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU ALL THE INFO BUT IT ALSO YOUR JOB TO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH ON YOUR OWN PROJECT. A LITTLE RESEARCH WOULD HAVE SHOWN YOU THAT BAMBOO IS NOT THE GREATEST CHOICE FOR FLOORING TO BEGIN WITH, NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU SHOULD LEVEL YOUR SUBFLOOR BEFORE INSTALLATION. AS FAR AS MYSELF, I AM MORE THAN HAPPY WITH THE HARDWOOD I HAVE BOUGHT FROM LUMBER LIQUIDATORS AND AM LOOKING FORWARD TO PUTTING THEIR HARDWOOD IN MY NEW HOME I AM CURRENTLY BUILDING. I HAVE HAD NUMEROUS FRIEND AND FAMILY MEMBERS USE THEM AS WELL, AND WE HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS.

In reply to Mike in SFO - We bought 900 sq feet of the bamboo flooring (two months ago) and still have not recived it. We contacted the regional sales mgr. for the west coast and was told there was a distribution problem. They were not able to get the product from the source.

Every time I call the store, I get the answering machine. They do not return my calls.

They had no problem charging our card for the floor however. I will be driving there tomorow to see what is going on.

While I have not recived the floor yet, I will say that to this point I am very pissed.

I would tell anyone else to stay away from L.L.

I will contact the Better Business Bureau right away.

I have bought a lot of flooring from Lumber Liquidators and am more than happy with my purchases. Everytime I go to my local store they are extremely busy, so they must be doing something right. If their product was as bad as some say they would eventually see a loss of business. All of the problems listed above are installation problems, it seems to me people are quicker to blame the product than blame themselves. I have put in Bellawood and it was the best flooring I have ever used. I have put in a Durawood Oak and it was a breeze to install and looks great but it isn't as nice as the Bellawood. I also flipped a property and put in a closeout of theirs, I paid less than $2.50 sf and it was exactly as you would expect, shorter lengths, some imperfections, but a little flooring knowledge will show you that this is what you can expect. With LL you get what you pay for, when you spend es than $2.75 SF you can expect that type of quality. When you buy their regular product lines you a great product at a great price.

Stay away from Lumber Liquidators!! And don't use there Visa card offer!! I ordered ENMA engineered floor based on a sample they sent me. The flooring they shipped does not match the sample at all. The sample had color variations that I wanted. The floor they shipped has no color variations. Worst of all, I ordered 1/2-in thick flooring and the stuff they shipped is 9/16-in. There is no part number on the boxes so there is no way to prove that the flooring is right or wrong. I disputed the charge with the LL Visa card people and they are not helping. It's the first time I have ever had a credit card company not honor a dispute. Overall, I'd say that the LL people do not know their product and don't care how much their customer's hate them. They are a HORRIBLE COMPANY!! STAY AWAY!

I love it when people buy the cheapest stuff they can, and complain when it is not what they think.

I am a National Wood Floor (NWFA) certified installer & sand and finisher. You pay for what you get when you buy products from places like LL or Home Depot. You buy a product, from a kid working for commission or a side job, then you are explained nothing about how wood floors are supposed to be treated or installed. Expect to use their sub contractor who is plain and simple the lower bidder, and you Plain and SIMPLE get what you pay for...

LL has a good monopoly going, they hook you in the door, and give you whatever they think they can to get the sale... then good bye...

Any installer on here that says they use their product is far from a professional. They fall into the lower bidder category. Because any professional would know that you can get a much better product, for even a cheaper price than LL. Complain all you like, LL is doing nothing to help our trade, in actuality it is doing far more harm by keeping people in fear of dealing with any wood flooring contractor.

The best part is how people hear, 25 year, or 50 year warranty on flooring.... BS... the real story is that it covers manufactures defects only... That means if your oak turns into maple they will cover it, and the only other thing is a finish failure. No wear through, not scratches, failure as in pealing. Which in my 8 years I have never seen ones.

They will tell you that everything that it is but not a problem with their wood. But did they explain that before you bought it?

Lastly, JT, I am no way defending Bamboo, but lets get the fact straight, it is not a wood, it is a grass. It is harder than oak, a "green" friendly product and is so imported that it is very cheap. It uses the same finish as all the other pre-fin floors (alumin Oxide)It is one of the most stable wood flooring products out their being it does not expand and contract anything like wood. I am not a big fan, but I know my products I install. By the way the spec on level sub-floors is 1/8 deviation in 10 feet.
Did LL tell you that? When is the last time you saw LL or any of their recommended contractors pull out a moisture meter and check their wood prior to selling and installing. A real contractor will check everything, the wood, the subfloor, the joist, the relative humidity...

Plain and simple, you pay for what you get... most of the times the saving you think you are getting will end up costing you far more in the end. PS: almost any company can beat a price from LL is they wanted to, but why lower a price when you know you offer a better product with actual service.

NWFA.org will give you all the facts on wood floors.... not a salesman who has a new summer job...

CTWoodGuy,

You contradict yourself, you claim that being a nwfa installer is something special, well, LL is a member of NWFA. I install a lot of wood for them and I have the same certification, didn't take much to get it. The 15 years I spent as a union carpenter is a lot better certification than NWFA. LL will show you anything you want to buy before you make the final purchase, they tell it like it is and the only time there really is a problem is when you don't do your homework. You can spend more money elsewhere, but for comprable products you will always save going to LL. If you want a PROFFESIONALS' opinion, buy smart, buy LL.

CTWoodGuy:
What wood outfit do you recommend?

Andy it goes to show me that you really know nothing about the NWFA. Being a member of the NWFA just means that they spend a few bucks to be a referral. It is just like Murphy's oil soap, they pay into the NWFA, but that as a product is not recommended for concentrated use on wood flooring. Yes I see their booth at the conventions but all real mechanics know what their product does to recoating. However, you may be a member of the NWFA, and LL may be, but do they send all of their employees their?

Because you became a member of the NWFA does not mean that your are a certified installer. School alone is 3 days, plus if you really want to know and be certified, you have to take the advance classes. On top of being NWFA certified, there is also the certified inspector for the NWFA. So easy is it? That is why over 2 dozen took the course last year in CT and 2 passed?

The fact that you speak so highly of LL instantly shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously cant buy products from companies like Preverco, Lauzon , Zickgraf… etc…. So you defend them knowing that is all you can get. I see it every day, when a carpenter or fly by night flooring installer buys products from places like LL because it is all they can get. LL sells a basic brand, with a warranty that is absurd, that is how they hook unknowing consumers in the door. When you can buy wood from company like GoodFellow for cheaper than Bella, and the finish is the same, but the milling is 10 times better as well as a higher grade, any real professional would know the products LL sells are just for dime a dozen buyers.

Question, why is it that there are countless Wood Flooring companies in every state, and they all could get commercial accounts at LL, but most of them don’t? Because they know that better products can be gotten for far less money. I can buy top end Lauzon for cheaper than Bella. So let me spend more for the 50 year warranty… haha… They buy from distributors that carry all the brands form low to high end. In the North here we have Hoboken, or NRF… etc..

“quote: If you want a PROFFESIONALS' opinion, buy smart, buy LL.” Sounds more like you are a salesman than a proffesional installer.

PS: I as well am a licenced carpenter, as well as an ex union man, local 24 and I hate to tell ya, but the advanced schooling in the NWFA far out teaches anything I learned at the hands of N.E.R.C.C..

To answer your question Terry, my recommendation is to always support your local company. Check to see if they are a NWFA company, (it helps) and lastly get some referrals. When a local company has been around for 10 plus years, and has been working on the floors in your neighbor hood that long, you will surely see that they stand behind their workmanship and their quality. Also if they do both Refinishing and Install is a good bet to. Any monkey can install pre-finished, but it takes a real mechanic to do sanding and refinishing. If a company does both, then usually they know what is what.

Damnit!

Seems every time I try to go into something with my eyes open, They're not really opened til after the deed is done.

Our new Bellawood floor looked beautiful for 2 weeks. I LOVED it. Notice the past tense. The cupping has started. We did 500+ sq/ft A few weeks ago. Now (3 weeks later...) we have ~100 sq/ft area of cupped wood. The rest is still very nice.

The wood sat in our den (horizontally, still in the factory boxes) for 2 weeks prior to install. The rel humidity of the subfloor and the wood should've been the same after that long.

The wood was installed over a 2 day period. 2 consecutive days, by an experienced floor installer. (friend of mine who's been installing wood floors since I've known him, about 8 yrs..)

Since I'm in Florida, and we're in the tail-end of one of our drought spring seasons, I don't think there's been much variation of the humidity. We don't have any water leaks. So the only other culprit could be poor wood quality.

So much for the 50 yr warranty... Even though I thought my eyes were open, I still end up getting screwed.

I can tell by all the previous comments, that so far, LL or Bellawood has been able to successfully "dodge the bullet" in having to stand behind their product.

This is the 21st century, you don't really have to have a quality product, just a good advertising campaign, and a better legal staff. Then you can lay out all the B.S. you want, and as long as the legal staff knows their stuff, you can write an 8 page warranty that says nothing of any substance...

Welcome to the real world Mike...

"Hey you wanna buy some real estate in south Florida?" "I can get you a really goood deal on the Brooklyn Bridge" "Your eBay account has been suspended..." "pssst.. Hey buddy. I've got a really good deal on some beautiful hardwood floor..."

Hey everyone,

My name is Jay and I've been a hardwood flooring broker for the past 3 years, I'm just starting to build my online presence. I know I can offer excellent service and prices on MORE brands than anyone on the internet. Over 60 lines to choose from giving you more options. Also, I work with a lot of custom milled, custom hand scraped hardwood floors, and we finish with tung oil. These are the best floors in the world in my honest opinion. We can get raw domestic and exotic woods in lengths up to 20 ft. If you need a special floor or a better price, try me after you have tried all these other companies and you will see the difference.

Looking for hardwood floors....try everyone else and then come to me for a better price and more options.



http://www.thehardwoodbroker.com

888-285-3397

I wish Lumber Liquidators would spend less time trying to contradict all of the complants that people have with there customer service and try to do somthing about it. As far as I am concerned, they are one of the most unprofessional companies I have ever delt with.
I ordered flooring from them three months ago and still have not got a straight answer as to when it will be in. I have been told its held up in customs, or that its on the boat, or that it will be here at the end of the week.
Today I went by the store to find out when it would arive, since they dont answer the phone, only to be told its on its way.
While I was there one of the (salesmen) was in the process of selling the same floor to a new coustomer. He told her there was no problem, they had plenty in stock. I wanted to tell her the truth, but felt that another upset customer might help to get the word out. This company makes used car salesmen look good.
I am contacting the BBB to see if there is any recourse.

Everyone must be aware of one thing when purchasing ANY hardwood that is cheap.
In reading all of the comments the major complaints have to do with milling, finish, and especially delivery delays.
This all adds up to ASIAN hardwood which has flooded the North American market over the last few years.
It is cheap, badly produced and inferior wood.
LL in their shipping problems for months on end is because they're purchasing wood from Asia and Indonesia in containers. It's garbage! That's how the underworld of flooring operates.
Do you really think it would take 2-3 months if it was coming from the best mills in the world in Canada.

There are 2 things Canadians do best... hockey and hardwood.
If you want the best chinese food go to Asia, if you want the best Philly sandwhich go to Philly, if you want the best hardwood....buy Canadian.
It's more expensive than the asian garbage but still very reasonable.
Canada is a first world nation with standards that exceed even US ones.
If you want a quality milled, finished, and superior flooring make sure the wood is coming from Canada.
I guarantee you won't get it for $1.99/ sq.ft.
but like everything in life... you get what you pay for.
Lesson learned and try not to stub your toes on the cupped warped floors!

We bought Morning Star Bamboo from LL because of the price (cheaper than Lowe's, Depot, etc). We had an installer glue it down in our very old home ('46) and he mentioned the floor was a little unlevel.

I had a good experience buying from LL but when I asked for extras like base shoe they said it would take 4 weeks! They did recommend leaving the wood exposed to the room it will be installed in for about 2 weeks to help it acclimate.

I'll let you all know if I have any issues. I bought the bamboo because I'm trying to be green and I'm hoping with a little wood putty and some strong glue I won't be seeing red.

Have read the posts here. Is LL the only seller of Bellawood? Is Bellawood a problem too?

Has anyone had any problems with the Orlando LL store? I ordered about 1,000 SF of Brazilian Cherry Lite (manufactured by Schon) over a month and a half ago and still have not received the what I ordered. Should I be concerned?

Also, how is the quality of wood purchased from the Orlando LL?

Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I ordered 600SQFT of Bellawood Brazilian Cherry lite from LL. We loved the look of the wood and spent months trying to find another manufacturer who even carried the product with no luck. Can anyone tell me what Brazilian Cherry lite is? LL is saying it is actually another wood called moabi, but the only moabi I know of is in Africa. Other dealers have said they cull the light pieces of Brazilian Cherry and call it lite. Hard to know which of the negative comments on this and other boards concerning LL are those of competitors who are just upset that LL is cutting in to their proffits or are folks who have had genuine problems. I suspect a little of both. I grew up on hardwood floors (and dreamed of wall to wall carpet!), but until recently hardwood floors were the domain of the well-to-do. The field has gotten much more competitive and undoubtedly there will companies selling inferior product to compete, but hopefully LL isn't one of them.
The floors are coming and it's too late to turn around now, so any tips on installation? What should the relative humidity and subfloor/flooring moisture content be? I'm going to end up doing a summer install cause from what you all are saying my wood is going to take longer than the 4 weeks LL said.

To: Bill Amoureux at 04/04/06, I would like to hear your trick to get funds from LL. I am going to court this week, but do not know if they will pay, so the legal trick for 3 times more sounds interesting.

Does anyone recommend LL store in Texas?

I think LL goes above and beyond their call of duty ! They have to deal with this “Do it Yourselfer” mentality. Most of which in this category don’t know one plank of wood from another, much less how to install them correctly ! Then when it turns out badly they look for someone else to blame, simply because they were trying to pinch a penny. Is LL suppose to look into their “crystal ball” and know exactly what you need for a correct installation ? They aren’t at your home ! The consumer should order their flooring with their homework done. LL isn’t there to spoon feed everyone. They are only a “Lumber Liquidator” as they say ! Not an installation company. We have installed their products many times, and had great success, and beautiful floors. And have never not seen them stand behind their product. I don’t recommend installing the flooring yourself. Most people don’t have the experience or tools necessary for a quality installation. And that’s not LL fault. They DO have wonderful products at the best prices.

Bravo! Bravo! Way to put it Brenda. We install a lot of LL product and have never had a problem that they did not stand behind. Hardwood installation is best left to the professionals.

Under that logic, computer use is best left to programmers... Just because i'm a DIY doesn't mean i deserve to be ripped off on defective wet hardwood. I dont' mind eating the cost of my own mistakes either. Being a consumer was my mistake here, not that i did it myself.


We have 800 sq feet of brazilian teak installed. During installation we found that we have over 8 different board widths, the skinniest is over 1/8th of an inch smaller than the largest. We called the LL store and were given a runaround. No refunds, no cancellation, no returns, 20% restock fee if you can fight enough to get them to accept a return. Also, the guy said the use of wood filler is an expected part of hardwood flooring installation.

At that point we just accepted that we were ripped off and installed the crap. it didn't look too bad at first. Months later, the boards are shrinking and there's gaps showing up. We called Bellawood (aka Lumber liquidators as they're the same corporation), and they sent out a professional flooring installer that looks for every nitpick they can find to make it look like it's my fault.

So, what i know he did find is that there's a "moisture problem". basically, he put his moisture guage to the floor and it read high. He put it to the bare subfloor and it read low. Then he put it on an uninstalled piece of flooring and it read high. Mind you that the piece of flooring he read had sat in the house acclimating for over three months. So, apparantly, even though the bellawood instructions says nothing about checking the milling and moisture level of the hardwood, we should have found both of these problems before installation...

Yes, you get what you pay for, and i'm just glad that i didn't actually pay for the installation of this crap.

Don't buy from lumber liquidators, or bellawood as they're the same corporation. The problem is in the product, not the sales for those of you asking if any particular store is OK.

I have to wonder how many of the glowing reviews above are lumber liquidator employees. How many happy customers search out sites like this? Have you ever searched out a complaints site to review a product you were happy with?

We were thinking of getting the Morning Star Bamboo from LL in Albuquerque, though after reading the above comments we are looking at other options. I understand the whole "you get what you pay for" thing, but realistically we don't have a whole lot of money to pay. What about Home Depot? They are the second cheapest place we have looked at...because they are more well known I am wondering if they are better, at least with customer service if things go wrong. I am a bit concerned however that the Home Depot didn't say anything about installing bamboo in a dry climate, when we have been seeing this as a problem over and over again on the internet. My second question is, if you let the bamboo acclimate for long enough and use a moisture meter- is it ok to use bamboo in dry climates? I can't seem to find a straight answer about this, probably because the only people I have asked are trying to sell me something.
Thanks.

We went to the LL in New Orleans today to see what they had in engineered hardwood flooring as we have to install flooring in a recently purchased home. We know we want real wood (no laminate) and the subfloor is concrete so I think an engineered wood is my only option.

We liked the Brazilian Cherry that was on display in the store and we also like the Brazilian Teak that is shown on the website. We were seriously considering ordering but some of the comments I've read here- particularly delivery time and quality- have me concerned. In this situation rock bottom price is not my primary motivation as I need to get floors complete ASAP so I can move.

Anyone have any suggestions on other sources for Brazilian Teak or Brazilian Cherry in a 3/8"(or thicker) x 3" engineered floor? Are the quality problems people are having primarily with the solid wood flooring or does LL engineered wood also have same issues?

Thanks.

Oh dear, I just bought Brazillian Koa from New York city headquarters of Lumber Liquadators. Has anyone had any experience with them? The manager seemed knowledgable and helpful, but I haven't seen the product yet.
When things go wrong will this store provide the kind of service they promise?
Their product didn't seem any cheaper than other places I looked, just more conveniently located.

I purchased 200 square feet of the Builder's Pride Brazilian Cherry from LL. I have to say that the quality of the floor exceeded my expectations. The question I have for all you negative customers (probably slanderous competitors), How can you honestly say that cupping is a manufacturing defect?
Cupping has to do with the moisture level of the floor and wood to be installed. If you live in Florida or other humid climates, you MUST get an accurate moiture gauge. It may take months in certain situations for wood to properly acclimate.

LL has 80 stores and they have 36 complaints reported to the BBB since 2004 (they are members). That is less than .5 complaint per store....hmmm there are about that many on this site. Something doesn't add up here....I am very skeptical of what I am reading on the internet. I think I will trust the BBB and the popularity of LL over the obviously struggling competitors that want to sell you the "Big Profits" Mirage.... And you guys know what I mean about "Big Profits" hint hint.

Oh yeah,

Let me help you with the big profits:

http://images.ifloor.com/webpages/1/miragead.jpg

Notice the bottom line on the right hand side of this person? It's pointing at his pocket....

The truth is that LL is eating away at those profits and so they reatliate on the Internet.

Approximately 1.5 yrs ago, I installed shy of 1200 ft of of LL Nirvana 8mm laminateinmy home. It's pretty alright, but has its major problems. I am a fastidious contractor and the flooring was laid according to instructions. The product was acclimated to specs, the slab was dry and vapor barrier used, taped up the walls. Most of the planks took on an "overwood" appearance longitudinally and on the butt ends and some shrinkage has occurred. All of the overwood butt ends are on the same end of each plank. During installation I noticed the edges were high and low and was told they they would settle once installed. On one of a couple of trips to the store while installation was taking place, I overheard the mgr at LL telling a customer not to consider the Nirvana as they were having problems with it. A claim was filed with LL and was forwarded to Sequoia Flooring in Canada. An inspector came and boasted that he did all of the inspections for Sequoia flooring which raisd a major red flag. After lots of converstation and letter writing to Sequoia (the manufacturer) Sequoia agreed to credit for replacement, but I won't have this floor in my home again. They deemed it was a "commercial" decison to warranty, and not a product failure....whatever that means. Wide baseboards were installed new over the new laminate which creates additional expense. I am about to file an action here in Texas unless my 10 day letter is responded to in the affirmative....and that means certified funds for all costs associated with a comparable replacement. Fat chance, huh?

Bought the PREMIUM Morning Star Bamboo, installed less than half and have noticed every little bit of movement causes scratching and denting. I am very displeased with the product. I will contact LL tomorrow and see if they stand behind their product. I was going to buy the cheaper "supreme" and was told that the Morning Star would outlast the others. Boy, the others must have self-distructed in a nano-second huh?

Can someone please tell me what kind of flooring should be installed over concrete. When I went to LL, they guy was nice but he had this funny look on his face when I told him I would be laying the flooring over concrete. Should I use engineered flooring or woood?. He tried to sell me a beech wood flooring that they had an over stock of, but I told him that I would get back with him. Please, someone with knowledge of installation give me some direction.

I asked earlier if anybody had any complaints on the Orlando LL and nobody responded. Anyway, I finally received and installed the Schon Brazilian Cherry Lite (engineered wood flooring). I decided to hire a professional installer recommended by the Orlando LL store. It came out beautiful! The installer did a great job and I would highly recommend LL and the flooring installer they recommended. So far, I'm a very happy customer. I look forward to using the local LL store.

Sally,

You will need to put down either a floating floor or a glued floor. Solid would be tough...I would look at Kahrs FLoating engineered. LL sells it on their website or you can go to www.hardwoodinstaller.com

Kahrs is known as the BEST engineered flooring. If you buy the hughest quality, it will be hard for the lay person to tell the difference between it and solid 3/4". Do lots of research as your slab can create moisture challenges.

Good Luck!!!

Want more selection and similar pricing to lumber liquidators. Check out my site Hardwood Maniac. I can help you find what you need and answer all of your question honestly. I don't liquidate anything, its all new from the manufacturer or distributor. Call if you have any questions on your hardwood floor purchase. 888-285-3397

Sally,

I visited Lumber Liquidators in their Toano location and was pleasantly surprised to see the selection of wood they had. I too was looking for something to put on concrete and the salesperson recommended a 3/8" product that could be glued down. It was Brazilian Cherry and it was beautiful!!

Not sure what you are looking for but I was very impressed. You really don't know what to believe from what is written above, so as I did, check it out for yourself. I think you'll be happy you did.

I purchased 500 sq ft. of 3/4" x 5" Bellawood prefinished australian cypress from Salt Lake City's LL and it is beautiful. I had it professionally installed and have recieved many compliments on this flooring. I would recommend LL and Bellawood most highly.

I am still shocked by how I've been given the run around by this place! Unbelievable. Their floors came damaged and unusable almost three weeks ago. I still have not received any replacement boxes. They keep telling me that nothing like this has ever happened before, and yet here online I find dozens of unsatisfied customers.
I agree with the above comment that "you get what you pay for" and have certainly learned my lesson.

Sally and any others installing over concrete, if your installer is not recommending using Bostick MVP (moisture block) find someone else that does recommend it- get references - do your homework talk to installers preferrably installers that have been around for a while. I feel I have done my homework and will be using the 3/8 engineered over MVP on a concrete slab in Jupiter FL. I also agree with the gentleman that wrote the cupping and buckling et al. is (generally) an install issue. That doesn't mean you can't get a product. I have heard good things from my builder and others about LL but you all have me worried with the negatives so I will do some research on other suppliers in town - the individual that commented about a minimun number of LL complaints to the BBB is well taken although most people forget they (BBB) are there and don't file complaints.

meant to say............. doesn't mean you can't get a BAD product.

i want to thank all of you who left posts. we are ready to install approx. 1700 sq ft of flooring and was looking at LL. from all the negative comments i will look elsewhere.

anyone had any experience with the quick clic morning star engineered bamboo flooring? just got some from LL and after reading all this stuff i am reconsidering. i am hoping all the posts i read about the bamboo going bad are referring the plank type full bamboo that gets nailed down. i do understand that moves around like maple does. i did install some glue together engineered bamboo some years back and it seemd to hold up well. i have a floor that is not exactly level and i am worried about seperation talked about in previous posts, but they did not identify if it was a nail down or click system.

Looking to buy Tigerwood and Ipe from LL in LaVergne, TN. Has anyone installed either of these products and has anyone dealt with the TN LL? All the negative comments have me wondering if I should look elsewhere. Thanks!

We made the mistake of buying from LL! We bought a laminate snap-flooring and about 2 boards in each box were unuseable. They were chipped, had slices in them, the edges were smashed, there was tape (looked like duct tape) and glue all over the boards. We were in the middle of a kitchen remodel and the flooring went down last. Means we were more than 30 days from purchase date. When I first called to complain, the guy I talked to sent a USP prepaid mailing label for samples of the damaged boards. When we heard nothing back from him, we called again and got a some little twit named Amy at the Customer Service number. She said we should have expected to loose about 5%. I said that one could expect a 5% loose due to cutting and fitting NOT from damaged product. Then she said that since it had been more than 30 days, we were out of luck.

Well, ol' Tom Sullivan is going to get himself slapped with a lawsuit and I hope he enjoys the expense of sending someone 3,000 miles! Since it is Small Claims court, the amount won't justify a change of venue, nor can he send a lawyer, so they'll just have to suck it up and spend the $$.

Looking for more options on your hardwood floors. Try http://www.hardwoodmaniac.com

We offer over 60 brand names of prefinished and unifinished hardwood flooring at similar prices to Lumber Liquidators.

Has anyone installed their cork flooring? I'm interested in the product called CKLMO - Van Gogh.

Feel totally ripped off. They play the Bait and Switch game. Make sure what you get is really what you ordered. Then they try to argue with you that you don't know. I had this happen and I had the sample in my hand and the product in my house. Not the same. They did not want to even make it right. They finally did, but I would never order from this company when they do things like this. Also, sent e-mail to President over a week ago and no response from them either. I guess they don't care.

I installed 1200 sq feet of Morning Star bamboo.
Problems? I would say YES!! Examples:
The floor will dent and scatch. (very soft)
You will have gaps. (the gaps will never go away)
I have installed several floors over the years and I must say this "bamboo" is the worst product I have ever used or seen. DO NOT BUY IT!
If you really want bamboo, buy a better product elsewhere.

thanks bill, but too late. i have installed the click type bamboo. i am fairly impressed with the way it is going together actually. yes you are right....it does seem to scratch easily so i am thinking a screen and recoat in a few years for this customer. i wish you would clarify if you used the click system or was that a nail down job? i did find other engineered bamboo for twice the price, but who can say if the quality is really there. i am thinking this bamboo thing is not going to get worked out for awhile. seems LL is the lowest common denominator in the wood floor business. you will get what you pay for and the 30 yr warranties are a joke since those companies will not even be in business in 5 years. i will post any additional observations as this morningstar bamboo click floor (in a kitchen) gets used over time.

keith

I HAVE INSTALLED THE MORNINGSTAR BAMBOO (NAIL DOWN, HORIZONTAL NATURAL)AND AM VERY PLEASED WITH IT. I DID MY WHOLE HOUSE, ABOUT 2200 SFT AND I HAD NO SUCH PROBLEMS WITH GAPPING OR DENTING EASILY. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CARBONIZED BAMBOO IS A LOT SOFTER THAN THE NATURAL COLOR AND WILL DENT EASILY, SO THAT MIGHT BE THE PROBLEM BILLY IS HAVING. ANYWAYS, I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMEND LL TO ANYONE.

Wow. This is a scary forum to find and read as I wait for my order to arrive in another week or so. What is this "cupping" that everyone keeps talking about?
Are most of these complaints toward the solid wood floors? or do people have issues with the engineered floors as well. I purchased the Schon Click together floor in a Maple. Should I expect to get a garbage product? or is it just the Bella that is garbage?

Our contractor installed Bellawood (prefinished) Brazilian Cherry in our attic (for an attic renovation project) about 2 years ago. He was absolutely stunned at how LITTLE waste there was among all the pieces of wood. (In fact, the only problem we had is that we ordered TOO much - because there was so little waste! Will still have the leftover flooring because it wasn't worth returning for the restocking fee. We might use the flooring elsewhere, although it's still sitting in our garage.) The floor is absolutely gorgeous, still doesn't have a scratch on it...and we haven't had any kind of cupping problems. When folks ever go into this room, almost everyone says, "WOW! Look at this floor!"

The builder did say that it was kind tough to put down - because the wood was SOOO dense...getting the staples through wasn't a breeze.

The only reason I happened onto this site is that I'm now looking for an engineered wood product for our 2nd floor and was going to check our LL's engineered flooring products. I saw this site & began reading - and was STUNNED at the negative comments!

Yea, it's a warehouse store...kinda like shopping at Sam's Club. Geesh - after reading all these comments, I wonder if I just got lucky or something?!?!?!

To the BAMBOO and CORK floor questions.
People, It is known fact that these floors are NOT Durrable. They are VERY VERY Soft. I can not stress that enough. I asked the Guy at LL what he thought about them in a home office and he said (And I Quote) "I woulden't touch them".

So Yes Bamboo will dent easy. Maybe yours has not yet.... but it will. And as far as cork goes..... I would not suggest cork for anything.

I don't know why so many people are complaining. I brought Bolivian Rosewood, Durawood from LL in Larvergne TN. They weren't very helpful, it was a clearance sale and they were to busy pushing stuff out of the door. I expected a little more help, but they are a warehouse not a store. You have to do your homework. However, I took my flooring home, it was beautiful, I installed it myself it was easy and my first time, looks great and no problems after 6 months. It was a odd lot which means they are some defects, but honestly, if my lot was defective, I couldn't tell. Everyone comments on how beautiful the floor is and they can't believe the price or that we installed it. Buy LL but do your homework, think about what type of wood you are buying.

I just wanted to give my update. I posted a couple messages up that I was waiting for my order of Schon Clic together engineered floor to come in. I picked it up last night and I have to say much of it is beautiful! but there is waste boards.
Out of 5 boxes (30 sq ft per box.) I would say there was about 8 to 10 sq feet of completely unusable boards meaning they had gouges or marks where a machine had gripped them or a knot hole was chipping out, and another 10 feet of usable BUT "less then desireable" boards. (meaning if I can complete the job without them then I'd rather not use them) but in a pinch they are usable boards.
The majority of it was a beautiful product.
Delivery did take a couple weeks longer then originally promised by the store, but they by no means screwed me on anything.

Oh I did check on one other thing while I was picking up my boards. They had the cork floors displayed in the show room and I walked over and was able to actually cut into them with my finger nail. This has to be the softest thing I have ever seen and using it for a floor is the craziest thing I have ever heard of. I have to agree with the others that say cork is not the way to go. I checked the bamboo as well and it was soft but not near as soft as the cork. I could dent it with a finger nail but not actually cut into it as I could do with the cork.

Good luck to all of you, in your future endevors with LL.

Just today we installed the Nirvana V3 Mahagony Floor. I will tell you the that not only does the floor look great, but the waste and damaged boards were less than 5% - My installer, who has been working with floors for many years and typically uses Pergo and Armstrong was impressed at the $2.00 pricepoint of the quality and shared it was similar to the pricepoints of Pergo, etc.

We'll see how it holds up over time, but everything looks great. If anyone would like a picture of the finished floor for reference, feel free to email me.

Shame on the complaints! I was reading here as I was about to purchase a brazilian Koa solid wood floor 1500sqft from L.L. and was scared by the cupping comments. I looked up bellawood and got the 800 number and called and was transferred to tech support to address my concerns. The guy there has been doing wood floors for 12 years and spent 45 minutes with me on the phone asking questions about my location, project, subfloor, and goals. He was extremely thorough and I could not be happier as he addressed some main concerns that I should correct before putting any wood floor product down from anywhere.

? Wet Wood from Asia. answer the wood has to be cured to 6-9% moisture before it can be milled or finished by Bellawood. It is shipped after inspection and gets to the store where it should be purchases and then acclimated until a moisture meter measures the subfloor and wood at an acceptable amount.

Subfloor people- as this is my situation. Do ask lots of questions, solid wood has to be installed on a proper subfloor. We were going to go over our old oak quartersawn floor with felt paper.(The salesman at L.L. did say this was ok). The tech guy says no way either pull up old flooring and install 5/8 plywood or 5/8 plywood over flooring with 15 lb. felt paper between each sheet.
Exotic hardwoods are hard to nail as they are hard woods make sure your installer is experienced.
Make sure there is plastic over all the dirt in your sub-area, this prevents moisture from rising into the floor and ruining your wood.
The people that have Cupping have a high level of moisture in the areas that have cupped after the install. If it was the wood it would have cupped before the install while acclimating.
I am so glad I am smart enough to do more research before writing off a good product from a good company, I will write back after my install to let everyone know what I did and how it turned out!!!

I bought and installed the Schon Quick Clik Bamboo (natural finish, floating installation). I was pleased with the quality. Out of 350 sf purchased, not one piece was defective in any way. There were no instructions provided, but they provide a support phone number. I do have serious gaps appearing where the ends of the planks butt together, but I neglected to check if my floor was level enough. I suspect that it is not. Does anyone have suggestions on how to close the gaps permanently?

They advertise items and then when you order them they are not on sale. They sent me a sale catalog and I tried to order 3 days later. Said sorry we are protected. Well I will see. I just filed a complaint with the Attorney General for the State of Florida. This is unfair trade practices. The product they send is not 1st quality and tell you to use them for end pieces. I could purchase defective flooring for pennies on the dollar not what I paid for.

Unhappy,
I can understand your frustration. While I am currently satisfied with my Schon Click together floor, I have to say that my boxes had more "waste" boards then I would have cared to see. And all the boards had a bit of a warp to them. That straightened out as I laid them and pinned the edges dwon with base board but I have yet to see if that will come back and haunt me down the road.
Out of 6 boxes (180 sq ft)I ended up with 20-25 sq ft of floor that was technically functional but had some sort of surface defect that would make you not want to use them.

Thank you to everyone who posted a comment. I will definately look elsewhere for my hardwood.

People, people. Get a grip.

Go to the Better Business Bureau web site. LL does not have excessive complaints. Based on how many stores they have, they probably have a lot fewer complaints than one might expect.

That said, people who don't know *anything* about wood, wood finishing, wood species, flooring types, or home building in general should not attempt flooring as a "DIY" project and expect it to turn out gloriously.

Some pointers:

1) Buying pre-finished wood floors is generally a bad idea. Pre-finishing seals the wood (only on one side, mind you) at whatever humidity level the company decides. Murphy's Law states that this level will *not* match the levels at *your* house. If you are the kind of DIY person who wants a deal and doesn't know wood from shinola, you should be shopping for "engineered" products like laminates instead of hardwood. Click together a floating floor product, and be done with it. You'll be happy and you won't have to mess with nails, glue, tools, and woodworking pitfalls.

2) Professional wood floor installers typically install *unfinished* flooring, and often use oil finishes rather than urethanes. Why? Get a big scratch in your wood, and you can rub a bit of oil on it and presto, the scratch disappears. Scratches in urethane, however, cannot be fixed without stripping/refinishing the whole room. So why would you buy prefinished urethane floors? Answer: because you don't know any better.

3) Even installing expensive woods results in waste. You need to plan for waste accordingly, and order 20% extra. Yes this means you have to *sort* through the boards, eyeing them for quality, straightness, knots, defects, splitting -- this is the part that is actually *work* and what pro installers get paid for.

4) An experienced woodworker does not order lumber sight-unseen to build say, expensive cabinetry. They go to a lumberyard and *sort* through the lumber, eyeballing it for straighness, grain figuring, color, etc. Wood varies, because it is a natural substance. If you order wood over the Internet for cheap, you will get junk and be unhappy. Wow what a surprise.

5) People who shop at a place like LL should be buying laminate flooring or engineered flooring of some kind. LL carries *poor* quality unfinished wood, which is typically suitable for someone putting flooring in a barn, or a rustic cabin -- it has so many splits and knots in it, it will look stupid in any other application. Just know what you want and what you're buying. Don't be an idiot.

6) Bamboo and cork floor. Bamboo is hard. It is good, because it is a renewable resource and helps cut down on deforestation. It is an engineered laminate product, so it should be more uniform in manufacture than milled lumber would be. If you install it incorrectly it will fall apart, warp, or crack just like any other wood product.

Cork is soft. Anyone who has opened a wine bottle knows this. It might be a good material for a yoga or meditation room, or martial arts studio where people walk around with bare feet and want a natural surface. It would be terrible in a high traffic area. Just because LL sells cork flooring doesn't make them "crooked": they just traffic in different materials -- if YOU buy cork flooring for a high traffic area, you are just plain ignorant.

I repeat, if you know nothing about anything when it comes to wood, home building, or wood finishes, you don't have any business installing wood floors. Get referrals for a local installer who stands by their product and has been in business more than a week.

I would buy flooring from LL or anyone else, because I know what I'm shopping for, and I know the pitfalls. However I would *NEVER* buy wood flooring or any other wood product sight-unseen over the Internet. Buy it locally, so you can touch it, see it, smell it. Also buying locally will give you some chance that the wood has been adjusting to your local climate for at least a short period of time.

Caveat emptor, in this and any other situation.

Remodeler,
Take a Deeeeeeep Breath and just calm down. You seem like you are a very angry person.
This is simply a place where people where sharing their personal experiences with LL. Folks come here, read, and make their own decision. They don't need you telling them your standards of seeing, smelling, and tasting wood before they buy it. And if they dont see the product first they are stupid. You dont always have to see a product before you buy it. Sometimes you go by what other people have said (as we are doing here).
While I agree with you on some points, On some of them I do not. Prefinished flooring is VERY popular. Yes it has some disadvantages, BUT It also has many advantages. Choosing it as a flooring option does not make one "stupid." However, Putting cork floors throughout your whole house, Does make you stupid.

I'm just saying, feel free to share your experience tips and any opinion you have on LL. But dont come out here saying "This is the way I do it, and if you dont do it the same way, then you are Stupid" That just makes you the stupid one.

Looking to purchase around 500 sf of Brazilian teak 3/4 x 5" planks, from the Toano, Virginia store. Does anybody have any input on this paticular store.

Thanks

I did my house with Pergo laminates, THe biggest mistake of my lifE. now, I am selling the house, and buying a fixer upper, Needs new floors.
All of you got me confused.
What kind of wood floors should I buy for a 1930's Apt.

I am thinknig of purchasing the "Dream Home - Nirvana 8mm Quebec Cherry Flooring" laminate flooring. I'm concerned about buying form LL now after reading the posts. Since most comments though appear to be about 'real' wood products, is it safe to buy laminate flooring from LL? can LL screw up manufacturing laminate flooring?

The moisture on my subfloor was fine and within manufacturer tolerances. The crawlspace under my house is lined in plastic and dry. A rosin moisture barrier paper made for hardwood flooring was installed. The wood acclimated for weeks before being laid. The flooring inspector checked some uninstalled wood still in the box and found that it had a high moisture reading even though it had acclimated for months at this point. My subfloor was checked again at the same time and still within standards. My flooring has warped. Warping wood can happen from moisture change. In our case the subfloor was dry and the wood wet. In most cases it is from a wet subfloor, but not always. Industry standard say that the moisture level in the wood should be within 4% of the area it’s shipped too. They claim to sell a high quality product at the highest quality standard. This has not been my experience. I have gaps from poor milling and warping. The moisture level and milling were not to highest quality standards. You should not have to check the woods moisture level on a prefinished floor. Having no “drying” time is one of the benefits of going with a prefinished floor.

We bought a huge amount of laminate flooring from LL. We had to drive 8 hour round trip to pick it up. We had many many pieces that had chipped and the quality was poor. The grooves that you use to lock it in place were poorly made to fit together. We called the Co. to have them send us some replacement pieces because there were so many of them we couldn't finish the floor and it was holding up our moving in. LL insisted we send them pics of the product! We told them we didn't have a digital camera and afterall we had purchased $3000.00 worth of their product. Certainly we weren't trying to get something for nothing. Well, they refused to send us the 1 box we needed to finish the floor without a pic. So, after trying to find someone with a camera, sending pics, they finally sent us a box -- it arrived damaged. We completed the floor with damaged pieces from the new box. This was 3 years ago. My husband and I just decided that we are going to rip the whole floor out and replace it with a REPUTABLE dealer. I can't believe that Bob Vila promotes this product. I will never buy anything that he promotes again.

We just purchased approximately 540 sq. ft. of Schon quick clic red oak engineered floating floor. We are installing it ourselves. It is absolutely beautiful and has a wonderful sheen to it. We bought the "Select" and have had no waste, the boards vary in many lengths, and the width is uniform. It is very easy to install. Canadians know how to do flooring. We purchased it from Lumber Liquidators in Beltsville Maryland and it arrived before the date promised. Also we had installation questions and LL was very nice and extremely informative.

I am anticipating a trouble free floor as we have followed the directions for installing a floating floor to the tee and are using a high quality underlayment.

Even though LL is a very busy place, they were more helpful and knowledgable than any other place we visited. We shopped for flooring for over 6 months before purchasing from LL!!

Yes, they sell inexpensive flooring...listen to their recommendations.

I bought what I consider expensive flooring for less and I couldn't be happier. Thank you, Lumber Liquidators!

I just bought 630 sq. ft. of Schon Engineered Red Oak that I plan to install on the lower level of my split-level home. I previously purchased some bamboo flooring which I took home and did not like as the color did not go well with my house. LL was more than willing to exchange for the engineered oak product. I will see how everything goes with my glue down installation, but I have to say that LL has acted very honest and professional so far.

I purchased 600 sq. ft. of American Cherry Natural from LL. About 1/3 of the way thru the install (professional installers whose work i've personally verified on two other jobs) we stopped trying to cull the variations in thickness because it was all over the place up to 1/8" inch. The back of the wood is stamped 'Canada'...so, it's not cheap asian wood.

I called LL and they said STOP and we'll come out and check it. The problem there is that by the time these guys stop, have to come back, new wood gets delivered, etc., I could have paid to have it finished up with what we have, then re-sanded.

I saved enough on the purchase to justfiy refinishing it right after it's installed - so I guess that's what we'll do....bummer.

You get what you pay for in this cruel old world.

I'am an installer from the northeast.and all the LL products that I have installed have been top notch .I have had the same problems as above letters (different width boards and shorter boards) with so called high end manufacture,s(lauzon,mohawk,preverco).wood is a natural product and you are going to get variations.

We purchased 480sf of Bellawood Red Oak. Three times we've tried to put it down, 2 times the glue failed. We didn't use Bostik's Best. Thankfully, the adhesvie company backed their product and reimbursed us each time. The last time we got it all down but it squecked everywhere. Now I'm questioning if I even want to use Bellawood again. We have 3/8" x 3" over terrazzo. What I notice about Bellawood is it splits very easily.

Does anyone have any experience/opinion of Bruce's Natural Choice 5/16" x 2 1/4". It has a rating of "Best" by Bruce. Is it better than Bellawood's 3/8"? Bruce's is also less money but I'm more concerned with quality milling.

Five yearrs ago I installed Pergo laminate in two of my bedrooms. One was occupied by my son who is now nearly 20. Let me say that after five years of heavy treatment, abuse and disrespect the Pergo still looks as good as the day that I installed it. Unfortunately Pergo discontinued that style of flooring so I had to select an alternate laminate. We decided to put down Dream Home Nirvana laminate from Lumber Liquidators in our MBR (225sf).

WHAT JUNK!!

Several planks flaked as I wiped the dust from each piece with a damp wash cloth prior to installing it. Many other planks had corners that were chipped out of the box. In at least two locations the end of the planks were cupped and did not mate perfectly.

I have ZERO CONFIDENCE that this product will be in my house in five years.

I complained to the manager of our local Lumber Liquidators and was shown the 1-800 number for customer service at Dream Home and told that they have a helluva warranty.

DO NOT EVER USE LUMBER LIQUIDATORS!!

Do not ever ever ever use this company! We built a brand new home and chose Bellawood Natural Red Oak. One year later the finish on many boards started to crack. We have done everything they told us to do as far as estimates for refinishing, etc. Finally they said they would pay to have the complete floor sanded and refinished, I have their message SAVED on my answering machine. I sent them the bids and they backed out and offered us $600.00 with the contingency that we never file a claim against the floor ever again. So much for their 50 year warranty. I have never dealt with a worse company and tell everyone I know, builders included, never to use this product, you will be sorry if you do!! We will have to hire an attorney to get some help with our problem. DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY. By the way, this floor was professionally installed, we did not do it ourselves so the installer has installed many floors and new exactly what he was doing. Our floor is also cupped, I can live with that but not the peeling and cracking. This is not laminate flooring. I have dealt with a customer service representative named Sherry Fitzgerald, she is the one who left the message on my machine saying they would sand and refinish the complete floor. Forget their warranty, it is useless, they always find fine print to get out of it. They told us the installer did not measure the moisture content of EACH BOARD when instlling it.

Thanks Connie

[I posted just above you]

After my experience with Lumber Liquidators and the Dream Home Nirvana laminate I was still open-minded about the Bellawood flooring. In fact, we had our eyes exactly on your product - the Bellawood Natural Red Oak. After reading about your problems and having a few of my own with the laminate I will completely steer away from Lumber Liquidators and their products.

Anyone reading these posts would be wise to heed their warnings!

I was going to go to LL this afternoon to purchase some red oak to redo our entryway floor and match the stairs we just had replaced. After reading all the bad press about LL, I will definately make my purchase from another source. Thanks for the info, it is much appreciated!

The reason you don't see all the complaints for LL is they have attorney's who will twist you arm until you pull all complaints

BEWARE!!!!

Just having my 3/8" Bolivian Rosewood being installed. The contractor is pointing out a lot of milling issues with the wood which is leaving some small gaps between adjacent pieces.

I bought this from the SFO LL shop.

On top of that they told me they don't make stair noses in 3/8" and instead sold me stair noses in 3/4".

As I am reading this forum I am getting concerned as to whether I made the right choice inbuying fro m them.
Faisal

BOY OH BOY, I am about to start installing 242 sq. ft. of 3/8"
Bellawood pre-finished Brazilian Walnut. Looks beautiful in the box but after reading all this stuff, I feel a bit concerned. Does anybody know anything about this product? Any comments?

We're buying our first house (Indiana) and since it's on a slab, I figured we need to go with engineered wood floor. We looked around and the local flooring store sells okay-looking engineered for $7-8 sqft, but installation would be on top of that. We can't afford that, but hate the idea of having to live with beige housing-development-house carpet after having wood floors all our lives, plus we left some time before we move in to change the floor out. I know it's not "real" last-100-yrs flooring, but it's not laminate either.

So, I looked at Lowe's and Home Depot and the Brazilian Koa we ordered from LL seems way better, more interesting, and a similar price for the engineered stuff. It hasn't come in yet, but we just ordered it.. is it really that different than a pre-finished engineered wood floor from the local floor guys? They had mostly brazilian stuff too.. not sure where else to look and am wary of buying what I haven't seen from the internet.

Is it Bellawood that's the problem.. I mean, is Schon maybe a little better? I thought I was being smart in trying to find something affordable for us, knowing it won't last more than 15-20 years, but not worrying about that because it's our first home and is still an upgrade from the carpet.

What should we do? Are we screwed? Has anyone tried to get out of a contract with them if you haven't paid yet and the order hasn't come in?

Just a few words to those who think all of their wood flooring issues are because Lumber Liquidators sold
you bad wood. Did you bother to educate yourself on
the wood industry installation guidelines as set forth by The National Wood Flooring Association? They can be found @ NWFA.org. Did you know that all solid plank (3"+) must have a moisture content within 2% of
of your wood subfloor? If it is not, the installation should be delayed and the wood flooring left in the
room until it's moisture content comes w/i the 2% range. The HVAC must on and operating so that the flooring can acclimate to the " normal living conditions" of your home. A moisture test is MANDATORY before proceeding with an installation.
If it's a new house, the HVAC must be left on @ normal living conditions until the new home owners move in. When you hire an installer it is extremr- ly important that they know...that you fully understand and know what an (builders) installers responsibility is...and then make sure it gets done. If you or the installer leave out even one of the above reccommendations, w/i a month to a year your wood flooring may suffer one or more of the following objectionable problems: cupping, splits,cracks,gaps between the boards, buckling,
or finish problems like, peeling, flaking, bubbling,chipping. Once you've put your floor into service, is it dull or are their issues with the finish coming off? What are you cleaning your floor with? You should NEVER USE ANY FORM OF WATER,OIL SOAP, VINEGAR, AMMONIA, WET SWIFFERS, or
machines that scrub the floor. The rule of thumb is that...if you wouldn't do it to your fine dining romm hardwood table...or $25,000 grand piano, then don't do it to your beautiful wood floors! So in 99.9% of the cases you may not have purchased "Bad Wood", but if you think you did ...
just call their customer care department in Toano,Va and respectfully tell them what your concerns are. I've found their staff to be very reasonable and caring people.

For those who think CORK is too fragile for a home, do you homework.. CORK floors are in museums, churches, cafeterias, libraries,office building lobbies and hundreds of high traffic areas.

From askthebuilder website:
"The people who own your home 50 - 75 years from now will thank you. Cork can easily last that long. If you don't believe me, just visit the First Congregational Church in Chicago, Illinois. The cork floor you will walk on was installed in 1890!

I am purchasing wide plank pine flooring from LL for my log cabin. I was told that any WIDE plank flooring can cup.It all depends on how it is installed. I was planning on face nailing and they recommended it.

face nail? oh man don't do it. that will look like hell and probably not stop the cupping problem if you have it. see above comments about moisture related to cupping. biggest thing with wood floors is acclaimating them and reducing swings in humidity. i made a posting last year about the engineered morning star bamboo install i did. not real impressed with the product. it is seperating slighty and it does scratch easily. for the price i consider it a "disposable" floor that will probably be replaced in 5 yrs or so.
do your homework people. ask people who know and accept some risk. you get what you pay for! the LL here in Denver went out of business for a time and then came back in the same location...go figure? i would not call them a "service" oriented business...but then again neither is the Depot or Lowes.
good luck

keith

I was thinking about getting one of these in 3 rooms which would be glued to concrete.

3/8" x 3" Bellawood Brazilian Redwood Pre-Finished
3/8" x 3" Bellawood Prefinished Brazilian Mesquite
3/8" x 3" Bellawood Santos Mahogany Pre-Finished

Should I look elsewhere for 3/8 wood glued to concrete?

After reading all the above comments I'm thinking it would be wise to avoid Exotic floors from LL but at this point I'm not sure.

I don't think Depot or Lowes would be any better for me.

Any help or advice on where to buy in Dallas would be appreciated.

why would face nailing look bad? Im builind a log cabin with wide plank flooring and I was going to use old fashioned slit nails. I see it in all the magazines.

I posted 5 weeks ago about the Dream Home Nirvana flooring.

After just 1 month of use the planks have begun to separate in the long dimension. Nice. Gaps. This is just 1 month in a master bedroom, not some high traffic kids bedroom.

Avoid LL and their garbage.

It seems that most of the complaints on here are for the Nirvana line and the cheap shorts. We ordered 900 sq feet of the Builder's Pride 3" (3/4 solid) Brazilian Cherry. It has arrived and is beautiful. We even had our installer inspect the wood. He stated that the quality was exceptional and was as good as he had seen.

I also asked him about the cupping, warping problems everyone on here is blaming on LL. He said that cupping and warping has NOTHING to do with the quality of the wood. It is 100% to do with acclimation and installation. Which, is not surprising with the comments on here. Most are made by people trying to install this themselves. Yes, you can install in yourself. But don't be surprised when the job is not done right. That is why there are experts in particular fields.

I am in the process of ordering the 3/8" x 3" Brazilian Koa prefinished flooring from Bellawood. I was told by the salesman that this could be glued down using a trowel on a concrete slab. Can anybody comment on this? Can this be done or do I need to order an engineered flooring?

Yes, it can be glued down on a concrete slab.

The more research I do on solid hardwood flooring vs engineered hardwood flooring the more confused I get on what is the best to lay on concrete flooring. I'm told different things about
installation procedures and wonder who to believe. I want to make sure I make the right choice since this purchase is not just a drop in the bucket. Who do you believe?

I bought carbonized horizontal bamboo for a bath floor; it looked great - nice and uniform, just like the store samples and literature. Then, I ordered the same product from the same store, and this time it looks like piano keys. Inexcusable variation. It took over 10 months and a lawyer to get them to respond AT ALL.

Something really wrong here.

I'm not sure why Bob V promotes these guys.
Just some advice, based on personal experience...
If you have been given a sample piece from LL, and later decide to buy some, ensure that the stuff they sell you is the same as the sample. I was given a sample of the Virginia Mills Handscraped Teak, it had a different finish (better) than the actual wood that was in the boxes I purchased. In fact, I subjected my sample to several scratch resistance tests and hardness tests both yielded pleasing results. HOWEVER, the actual wood that they sold me scratches very easily, too easily. I'd be surprised if there really is 5 coats of finish on it. Also, sample had only had a pre-finish applied to only the face of the wood whereas the purchased stuff had finish all-around. Not sure if that matters.
Oh, a couple other things to look out for, they'll be happy to sell you, the matching bullnosing, which once the order comes in and after you've paid for it, does not look like your flooring color, grain or texture, and then they will tell you that it is not teak, but maple.
Also now, 2/24/07, be aware that there is a 20% restocking fee for returns (must be made within 30 days from purchase).
I had many pieces of flooring with lots of ugly filled knots.
Despite what the salesmen above are saying the salesperson specifically told me not to pick and choose which pieces to use because they could only be returned in an unopened box.
Don't be fooled by the name either, Virginia Mills Handscraped Golden Teak is Made in China.
While trying to craft my own bullnosing I had taken my wood to a couple of shops who had teak that looked completely different than the "Teak" that I purchased. So I'm not even certain that this stuff is Teak.
This stuff split very easily, probably 1 out of 3 nails (L-cleats) would split the wood. My research told me to hand nail hardwoods such as teak, but I did not have that kind of time for this project. Air compressor/nailer worked best between 70 & 80 PSI.
Hope that helps someone.
This was my fourth 3/4" hardwood flooring project and my overall advise is to find and pay for a quality product-easier to install and will probably like good roofing, its endourance should easily compensate for the price difference.
Another thing for those concerned with cupping, different woods have differing stability for humidity changes- you may want to factor that in if you live in Florida and the like.
Also, if you want to do hardwood over concrete, you should probly construct a false floor first. 2x4's layed flat and 3/4" OSB or plywood.
Hope that helps someone.

Wish I had read this before I ordered, but luckily only ordered 1 box of cork to do a decorative project. Placed my order online and paid for standard shipping, expecting to receive my order in about 7-10 days. That was over a month ago... I have one email saying the order would be shipped the next business day, and two saying I needed to come to the store to pick it up. I am now waiting for a call back from the 'Online Sales Supervisor' after waiting about 15 minutes on hold. The operator said all 4 supervisors on duty were on the phone already... After reading all of these posts, I'm not too surprised...

Rose Mary (2/27/07 post). I too am going to put wood flooring on concrete. I called Armstrong and Columbia and their tech service people said it is OK to do if I use engineered wood and I glue it down. Armstrong e-mailed me a copy of the installation instructions which I am in the process of reading so I can make sure our installer follows them carefully. I do know that I vapor barrier needs to go down on the ground before the new slab is poured and I need to wait around 60 days for the slab to cure and dry. In addition, there needs to be a moisure sealant applied to the slab before the wood goes down. Armstrong recommens ProConnect for all their engineered wood lines.

Hope this is helpful.

We installed 1000 square feet of the handscraped Jamestown Plank from Lumber Liquidators in December 2006. After a few weeks we began to notice that the floor began to look like it was about 20 years old. The finish is dull and within the grain of the floor is a greyish cast. (The only product we have ever used on the floors was the cleaner purchased from Lumber Liquidators.) We contacted Lumber Liquidators and after emailing pictures of the floor, they had a flooring inspector come out and look at the floors.
The customer service rep I was dealing with told me that the inspector's report was inconclusive but it did note that "there was nothing the homeowners did to cause this to happen". After that conversation I could not get anyone from LL to call me back with a decision on what they would do about the floor. Finally after 5 or 6 phone calls, they called me back and informed me that even though it was nothing I had done, they would not warranty the floor because they felt "it was not a manufacturing issue" and they had not heard of anyone else with this problem. I have hired a flooring inspector on my own and am planning legal action. Has anyone else had a problem like this or have any advise dealing with LL??

Let me start by saying that I own a retail flooring store. For those of you who purchase products from LL and have problems after installation, I am very sorry. We have had numerous customers who have purchased their flooring from LL only to return it and seek the help of someone who can give them information. I suggest to all of my customers to please search the internet and do your homework before making a major purchase of hardwood Flooring for your home. As a retailer of many different hardwood lines, it is our obligation to make sure our customers are satisfied. It is OUR name and reputation that we put on the line with every sale and installation. As a retailer, we have better leverage with our Manufacturers in getting problems corrected.

Lets face it, Hardwood is Hardwood! No matter what type of wood you purchase, there is always the chance of having a problem. We recently installed 780 s/f of BR111 Amendoim which was delivered for acclimation. Moisture tests were preformed and a few days later the wood was installed. As we got into several boxes, we began to notice that the widths were different. We put our distributor on notice and had 37 more boxes delivered, which were inspected and found to have the same problem (especially since they were from the same lot number). We changed the width after agreement from the customer and had another 37 boxes delivered and acclimated. The wood was installed without incident and the homeowner was extremely happy. Yes, as a retailer it cost us money to install 7 boxes and then tear it up, however, our distributor has given us the okay to bill them for any costs involved and they would seek reimbursement from BR111.

What I am saying here is that there is nothing wrong with DIY projects, but the purchase and installation of Hardwood flooring should be done through a professional and reputable retail store. Will it cost you a bit more money, of course it will. But in the end, you will have the peace of mind knowing that you have more than what we refer to as "the tail light warranty". Once your installer pulls away and you see his tail lights, you have seen the last of his responsibility for your installation.

In the state of Maryland, you need to be MHIC (MD Home Improvement Commission) licensed to install hardwood flooring or at the very least be covered under the companies license. This is for all floors that are considered permanent.

Your flooring is a very big purchase and one that you should only have to replace one time and enjoy it for a lifetime. Remember the old saying "If It Sounds Too Good To Be True, Then It Probably Is"? Educate yourself. Read the fine print. Make sure your purchase is not for all "shorties". Make sure you check sites just like this one for the pros and cons. And remember, Hardwood is what it is. Ask the right questions. If you are buying a #1 Common of Select, ask what the expected waste is and add that % to the total square footage that you purchase. Most people think that retailers do that as a way to make extra money on the job....we do not! Any extra wood should be left with the homeowner as they are the ones who paid for it. Be reasonable in your expectations of what you should expect to receive for what you plan to pay! Always ask to have specifics highlighted on your contract so you are aware of what you can & can not do once your materials have been purchased. And never, never continue to install a Hardwood Floor after determining that there are issues, regardless of what the seller tells you to do.

Lastly, if price is an issue, talk to your retailer about getting your work done in increments. Most retailers get better pricing when they purchase flooring by the pallet, so based on your s/f needed it might end up being a pallet once the % of waste is added in. And really lastly, ask about their financing. Not all financing plans will be be like LL's and if worst case, plan your flooring around tax season and stay away from flooring projects around holidays where you know you will be taking out lots of extra money (like Christmas, birthdays, vacations).

I hope this information helps even one person to make the right, educated choice when it comes to flooring. We know we all need to stick within our budget, but at what costs?

Has anyone had experience with the LL Cleveland Ohio store? I am considering purchasing the Schon American Cherry Natural Engineered Quick Clic to put over concrete with vapor barrier and underlayment. Any advice?

I see a lot of LL personel posters on this thread as well.....very interesting and so easy to pick out.

Well,
I'm an ex-employee of lumber liquidators, only worked there for 4 months. I can tell you that a lot of the good experience witten here are by LL emloyees. I have wrked in HD, ProSource and other flooring retailers in the past 16 years and have not in any one place seen as many complaints and charge back issues as in LL. It was a daily frustration especially when a customer brings samples that are defective and LL tells them you can NOT return the order. I realized in the last two weeks with them that thay are masters the bait and switch technique. I have seen customers with orders more than six months old who asked for their money back but LL corporate office (even though they can't get the product) will still not refund the money. Most of their products are made in China or South America by very poor mills, that's why it's cheap and even if it looked good now; just wait a few months when your floors starts cupping!
This company will rip you off, so be aware.

Paul,
After working at all those places you listed it still amazes me by your response that you still know nothing about flooring. Every decent flooring contractor/distributor knows that cupping is not caused from the wood but rather the environment that it is laid in. Wood is wood...it does make sense now why you have been through so many flooring companies.

And it is easy to identify the posts from other flooring companies.

A. Davis... I bet that you think the "right" decision is to purchase product from an over-priced flooring retailer like yourself.

I know no less than 10 people who purchased flooring from Lumber Liquidators and had it professionaly installed over the past 2 years. None of them have had any kind of issues.

From the posts here, it is apparent that the majority of the problems come from people trying to install hardwood themselves. Some things are better left to experts.

As for those havign problems with cupping and warping... that is not a problem with the wood. That is a problem with the installation and install conditions.

In my previous post regarding the Jamestown Plank, I did not clarify: We did not install the flooring ourselves. We had a professional install it.

Great FLOOR!!! (no I’m not a LL employee)
Just had 550 square feet Jamestown Plank Handscraped installed.
The floor is awesome. I can’t believe how good it looks.

Purchased from the Plano Tx store.
I was told this is one of their most popular floors and they were out of stock when I ordered.
It took less than two weeks to fill the order even though the web site said it wouldn’t be in stock until much later.

An employee for Wood Floors Etc fills in at the LL store and this is who I dealt with.
They did a fantastic job installing 5 areas of 12” tiles and the 550 sq ft of wood.
I had a lot of T molding and threshold used on the floor and it matches great.
I took pictures of the floor but they do not give the floor justice.

Trust me the floor looks much better than the pictures but it will give you some idea.
http://planerc.com/images/1.jpg
a href="http://planerc.com/images/2.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://planerc.com/images/2.jpg
a href="http://planerc.com/images/3.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://planerc.com/images/3.jpg
a href="http://planerc.com/images/4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://planerc.com/images/4.jpg

Granted it’s the first day and the floor could fall apart over time but so far so good.
We let the floor acclimate for 5 days and as I opened the boxes I checked the width of the two 5” planks together and every box I checked measured exactly the same.

Hopefully I won’t run into the problems the other poster (Shelly) had with the floor turning gray and dull after a few months.

I will definitely create another post with how it holds up after a few months.

I have spoken to several professional flooring installers that I know. They said that there is an issue that alot of people don't think about when installing.

If you are on a crawl space, it is essential that you put 6mm plastic down on the ground in your crawl space. This will limit the amount of moisture that accumulates int the crawl space. This, in turn, impacts the moisture content in the subflooring.

They said that you would be surprised at the differences in moisture based on the seasons. It can definitely fluctuate. This often causes wood that was acclimented to warp or cup at a later date.

I am not sure why people have experienced warping and cupping, but every installer I spoke to said that this would not be due to the wood itself.

Now variances in width and thickness is another story.

no complaints about ll products, but has anyone ever tried to return any material.
get ready for a good go around.
can't get any satisfaction at the store so i'm trying the headquarters if i can get a live body to talk to,all you get is voice mail. i'll keep trying until it gets resolved.

>
I had no problem returning an unopened box of Jamestown Plank. They refunded me my money minus the restocking fee without any problems.

Regarding the floor:
Almost one month in and no problems to report.

Why no updates any more?

I found that EMERALD FLOORS had some of the best prices on top name floors. I found them at www.emerldfloors.com .
They do not charge tax to most states and have prices on all types of hardwood floors that are 70% or better below retail. They have free samples and ship the product to your door.

Hopefully, I can provide a little insight that makes life easier for a lot of you. I'm a flooring consultant and inspector in upstate New York, and have no connections with LL.

Cupping - the only reason boards cup is that the top is drier than the bottom. As wood dries, it shrinks. If the top shrinks and the bottom doesn't, it will cup. This moisture imbalance can be caused by 1) the subfloor having more moisture than the flooring, or 2) the air above the floor being drier than the conditions the wood was acclimated to. All wood, no matter how cheap or expensive, will react this same way. It's just adjusting to its environment.

Some comments mentioned that when the flooring and subfloor were checked for moisture before installation, the flooring was much wetter than the subfloor, even after acclimation. Were the moisture meter readings adjusted for the type of wood being tested? Exotics are typically much more dense than plywood subfloors. If Brazilian Cherry or Brazilian Koa reads 12% moisture content and the subfloor reads 8%, they are actually the same moisture content.

Sorry for being so long-winded. If you want more info on selecting, installing, or maintaining your wood floor, check out my FAQ page at www.woodflooranswers.com (don't worry, I don't sell anything online).

Mike

Correction - "If Brazilian Cherry or Brazilian Koa reads 12% moisture content and the subfloor reads 8%, they are actually the same moisture content" - should read "they MAY be the same moisture content." Different subfloors have different densities, too, so readings can vary. Sorry for any confusion.

Mike

In response to the query about the comment from "Frank" on 5-22-2006 about a "legal trick" to get "three times the cost" of the floor from LL, he was probably talking about his state's version of the Unfair Trade Practices Act or Consumer Protection Act. Most states' versions of this ubiquitous law allow for up to three times actual damages, plus attorney fees...but only if you win!
As for me, the jury is still out on whether to do business with this company. I'll be reading up on the NWFA website, and woodflooranswers.com, and talking to a few local installers. I certainly don't anticipate spending $3000 to $4000 on new floors without a lot of research. Stay tuned....

Hello,

I really liked the bloodwood I saw at LL. Although it is expensive and I am worried about the quality after all of this reading. Does anyone know of a wood similiar in color, or of other places that carry bloodwood reasonably.

Thanks So Much,
Danni

I love coming back to this thread and still get surprised by some of the horror stories regarding LL. I have never heard about any hardwood flooring company having so many flooring failures, warranty issues, defective material, and charge backs. Hardwood flooring is a final decision that should last a lifetime. It amazes me that anyone would take a chance with a company that has so many problems just to save a couple hundred bucks. Its not worth it.

I would personally help any of our customers if any problems arise and give a 100% return on anything found defective had it not been installed. In fact, I am dealing with a case right now and doing everything in my power to carry out the warranty and get the problem areas replaced even though the customer's floor shrank from being too dry. Not our fault but we are still pushing the manufacturer for a replacement of boards, and it is working!

www.HardwoodManiac.com

First of all, the only thing that makes wood move, cup, or split is moisture. If your would cups it's not because you bought defective product from LL, it's because you didn't do the research and you forgot to acclaimate your wood or your humidity levels are improper for installing hardwood. Secondly, it is not the responsibility of LL to hold your hand through your entire hardwood flooring process. YOU YOURSELF should be highly educated before installing any type of wood flooring. Believe it or not....you are not the only customer LL has to deal with. If you want someone to hold your hand then pay a professional to come out to your house, pick your species of wood, and then let him sell you oak with a cherry stain on it and call it "brazilian cherry" for 6 dollars a foot. If you want someone to wip your tears, call up simply floored and let them charge you an arm and a leg. If you actually want a real brazilian cherry or other exotic woods for a great deal then LL is your place. The brazilian species of wood are much harder than regular red oak and therefore more difficult to work with. Thirdly, the reason their have been so many complaints about LL is because people in general are idiots when it comes to hardwood flooring and don't educate themselves prior to spending thousands of dollars on floors. Why would any humidity or moisture problems be the fault of LL? The 50 year finish warranty is on the finish! If your finish ever cracks, bubbles, flakes or anything of that nature, your floor is warrantied for 50 years!!!.......It's funny.......I haven't read one complaint about the finish of LL floors.

I purchased and had professionally installed LL's Durawood Honey Oak engineered wood, SKU (Durenho) product five years ago in my living room, hall and kitchen. My only issue is that I didn't purchase any extra (misplaced the half box I had for repairs), and now I need to replace 8 pieces and it's "obsolete" according to LL. Anyone have an idea how I can proceed?

Make sure that you buy extra if you go with LL...

If anyone has any idea how I can get more, please post a reply.

Thanks,
Uni

I am a homeowner who's hobby is my house. I consider myself a 'closet' carpenter. I would say my skill level is above average.

I bought roughly 900 sq/f of Bellawood Select Maple 2 1/4 x 3/4 hardwood from LL and installed it myself on the main level of our 1420 sq/f ranch. I did a ton of research on the proper way to acclimate and install a wood flooring product, as per the NOFMA's guidlines (not just LL instructions) even before purchasing the product. I acclimated the product for 3 weeks, not days before install. I bought a Delmhorst moisture meter to check moisture content of both the subfloor and hardwood prior and during the install. I monitored indoor temperature and humidity with a digital hygrometer/thermometer, again, prior and during the install. I layed #15 felt paper per the NOFMA's schedule. I also nailed using the NOFMA's schedule with the proper length nail. I made sure my subfloor was approved for hardwood prior to my purchase and did extensive leveling during the install. Basically what I'm saying is I took my time and did it right.

I am very pleased with the results of my project, now some 10 months later. Yes, there are things I would have done differently in hind sight, but my "installer eyes" are more critical than most. Perfection isn't good enough most of the time for me. :)

It's amazing to me that there are so many complaints from people who honestly have no buisness attempting any project with wood, let alone a flooring project. Understanding the properties of wood and the environment in which it is to be laid is critical. Yes, LL sells to DIY'ers like myself. Unfortunately people with no carpentry skill, who get caught up in watching HGTV, think they can handle this. IMO, a hardwood flooring project is not for that 'average joe' skill set. You really need to have the right tools, the know-how, and the patience to do it right.

-brett

Do a Nancy Reagan and just say NO!
scroll down and see what happened to me...

Dear Mr. Sullivan,
It has been one week since I wrote to you and still no action from your company beyond promises that were made to me by Brian Poulin that somebody would be taking care of me. This is really unbelievable! I can’t understand how a company of your size can operate in this manner and leave customers hanging like this.

David




------ Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:32:28 -0400
To:
Conversation: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached
Subject: FW: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached

Dear Mr. Sullivan,
Please see that I’ve been trying get some help with the defective flooring that I bought and I’ve been unsuccessful. Your customer service people want me to wait at least a week to tell me what they can do to replace my floors. I’m getting married in a few weeks and my fiancée wants to wring my neck because we can’t move back into the apartment until the floor in installed.

Please help and see the attached pictures of the defective flooring and maybe you can help me.

------ Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:30:46 -0400
To: Laura Layne
Cc:
Conversation: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached
Subject: Re: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached

Dear Laura,
I was very disturbed by our phone call that lumber liquidators would not be picking up taking responsibility for your defective floor. I cannot delay my remodeling a week while your company decides what to do and get back to me the middle of next week. I had brought samples and pictures to your store yesterday and was assured they would be sent back to your corporate offices via FedEx, you have just informed me that that is now being done today. Your store is 20 blocks from my apartment you are welcome anytime to come inspect anytime.... Therefore I am contacting the, The New York City Department of Consumer Affairs, NY State Attorney General’s Office as well as the Better Business Bureau and the New York Post,Channel 4 Channel 5 News, Channel 7 News and Channel 11 News, and Channel 9 News, New York 1 News, in the hopes that somebody will want to help out in this situation... I had mentioned to you that 35% of the wood was not good and that if you could replace that amount by finding that amount from your other stores I would sort through the bad flooring just so my job wouldn’t be delayed further. I explained to you that I’m getting married in a few weeks and I’d like to be back in my apartment before the wedding and we have relatives that will be visiting from around the country!!

Sincerely,
David








From: Laura Layne
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:28:08 -0400

Conversation: Defective Flooring Pictures from David attached
Subject: RE: Defective Flooring Pictures from David attached

Yes, I did receive them thank you,


Regards,

Laura Layne
Customer Care Representative II
3000 John Deere Road
Toano, VA 23168
1-800-366-4204 Ext. 7530
Direct: 757-566-7530
Fax: 757-259-7292

Lumber Liquidators Inc.,
Hardood Flooring....FOR LESS!!!
www.lumberliquidators.com 1-800-FLOORING!!!




From: David
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Laura Layne
Subject: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached

Hi Laura,
Attached please see the attached pictures of defective flooring Brazilian Teak 5x3/4in.
Please get back to me as soon as possible on what to do as my contractors are on the site waiting and my whole remodel job is being held up by this.
Thanks,
David

IMG_0175.JPG

IMG_0176.JPG

IMG_0178.JPG

IMG_0177.JPG

IMG_0179.JPG

IMG_0174.JPG

------ End of Forwarded Message

------ End of Forwarded Message



I am a DIY & have installed 2 HWF from LL. Both are on the second level of my home & it has been 10 months & 7 months since I have done it. I have had 0 problems thus far & one room is a FROG & the only way I could afford it was to use second pieces: 75% of these are 6" and they are 2.25 wide. That was a lot of nailing with no splits to mention. Also, with short boards the cupping risk doubles. No problems again. This room also has tremendous temp swings since I'm cheap & it is the FROG. I keep it warm in summer & cold in winter. Being from Charleston, SC humidity is a daily event. I let the boards stay in my garage for 2 weeks prior to laying & I busted open the bands on each bundle and seperated the bundles while airing. I'm planning my master bedroom now & will buy from LL. I'm no rocket scientist but I have had no problems & will buy until there is a problem

I purchased over 3,000 sq. ft of Bella wood (5 inch wide 3/4 inch thick Brazillian Cherry) from the Conyers, Ga LL location. The experiance for the most part was very good. Yes I recieved a little price break for the amount purchased, but not that much. I feel that I did get a quality product. I also bought BC treads to change out my stairs. The original treads were poor quality, but I asked for a lower priced item, and when they came in, they were defective, when delivered. The Manager of that location brought a better quality product to my home...45 minutes away, at his cost and applied what I originally paid to the new price and gave me a discount for my trouble. I have been in retail for over 30 years and I felt the manager went above and beyond.
As far as informing me of issues, the people I dealt with told me how long my product had to cure before installing and also warned me of darkening in the sun. Every retailer struggles with consistency when it comes to staffing and I would have to say that if anyone on this works with people and do their own hiring, you know it takes time to train and overcome turnover. I am happy with my experiance at this location.
On the other hand, I did have issues with my installers. The lead guy had personal issues going on and the team were left on their own. My installer also had me order too much. I have have 5 boxes. If I ever get brave enough to do it on my own, I guess I will install this in my walk in closet.
I now have some gaps between some boards and I am not sure how to properly fix this. This just started within the last year and clearly shows some kind of shrinkage etc. or it shows that they were not nailed in correctly.
Is there anyone on this blog, that lives in Atlanta, that can offer how to correct this, or reccomend someone who can? I was told to mix saw dust with Glue, but have read conficting reports on the results. I have had a heck of a time finding wood putty that matches. I put in some in the hall that was supposed to take a stain. That was all bunk, and I guess I will have to dig out the white stripes. If anyone local has a better idea, please let me know before I really mess this up.
As far as a 50 yr warranty for Bella finish, the box clearly states it warranties against manufacturer defects and that once nailed, you are responsible.
Again, LL went above and beyond for me and I am sorry to hear that others did not have the same positive experiance. I just have to fill in my gaps.
teb