apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I'm torn. I like the random chatty nature of threads, but forums would be good as a resource when you have questions. My personal experience is that forums can be good or bad...if they're good, they're very searchable and sort-able. If they're bad, they include things that fall into obscurity. I'm by no means an expert.

Jaimie,The best way to become one of those people who know each other is to join in the thread with opinions! But I do know what you mean...

I was just (dorkily) thinking about this the other day. The problem I have with the Open Threads is that, since Comments aren't searchable, there's no efficient way to come back to something that you vaguely remember someone talking about maybe three to six months ago.

NT -
PANY Silk Flowers Corporation
146 West 28th Street Frnt, New York, NY 10001
(212) 645-9526

Beautiful artificial flowers!

I'm going to take the minority position and vote for threads. Forums would definitely be easier to search, but I love the feeling of just checking in to see what everyone is talking about today. It's like a real group conversation, where several things can be talked about at once, and one person can address several people in one post. It's the real-time aspect that makes it lively. We're going to break off into a bunch of special-interest groups if we go to forums. I suppose it's inevitable, and it will make searching easier, but we're going to lose a certain amount of conviviality.

If you basically want to know what a forum would be like on AT, go here:

http://www.livemodern.com/forums

I love what Anne/the first one/Dallas said and agree with her ideas for organization! I sometimes noodle around in the archives, find a topic that's great, to my way of thinking, and then realize it's a year old and there's no point in responding to it. Or of asking a question. E.g., a long time ago, someone posted that he'd tell anyone interested how to give wood floors a silvery-blue sheen. Silvery-blue sheen! Yes! Yes! Yes! But the post was ancient, and I could never find it again. --sigh-- And that's just one example of the syndrome.....

Au

Thanks Curtis and anne!

Threads, please. I love the conversational and serendipitous flavor of the water coolers. I post to a number of other bulletin boards and have never found them as warm and welcoming as AT is now. It's true that the search function is usually better in forums, but forums result in a lot of self-selection and are highly focused. If I'm in the throes of a bent-ply obsession I may only read "Bent-Ply" or "Mid-Century" or "Furniture" missing out on the zen of counter tops or the horrors of one shade of white vs. another. As it is, I actually read everything on AT and AT-LA. Any information I've needed I've found either through the archives or by merely asking a question. And even the searching has led me into new waters.

By all means, threads.

Funny - These last couple of weeks I have been watching Open Thread responses jump to 100+, and I've almost asked, three or four times: So, when is AT going to open up a forum?

I think that it would make sense, given the frequency of certain topics, and the momentum of the existing community. It's hard to start forums from scratch, with no pre-existing community, but there's more than enough interaction here to seed and continue one.

One thought: I have participated in a lot of different web community bulletin board/forums, and it seems the single most common mistake is immediately breaking up the message board into too many sub-categories. People don't know where to go, and the General section just gets all the activity.

What about something like:

AT General
AT Kitchen
Site Feedback
Home Renovation - For questions and threads on what brand of plexiglass should I use? and highly debated and heated threads on the relative merits of granite, concrete, and stone. Etc.
Home Decoration (or Furnishing, I dunno) - Vendors, furniture, fun shopping, cool items people turn up, questions...
City Specific Forums (for meetups and such) - this could give people without a city specific AT edition a place to discuss local resources. So obviously LA, NY, SF, Chicago, etc, would be there initially and maybe seed groups of at least 5-10 people or more could petition to get their own city forum.

I dunno - those are just some ideas to get juices flowing.

You started the open thread about a year ago... To be honest, I rarely look at them...

Is this a real poll to figure out your audience's likes/dislikes?

I would think gaining an understanding of how your site is used would be useful also... Are we all just taking intermitent breaks from our professional duties to see the new posts in each of our own personal quests for design utopia or are there actual homebodies who only use the site mornings or evenings???

Forums. That way comments can be organized by question, topic. Questions get lost in threads.

Also, a forum that incorporated all the blogs? Have a section for NYC only, LA only, Kitchen only, and general questions to the whole lot.

I'm sure this is unintentional, but the open threads seem like a messageboard for a group of people that already know each other well, not as a welcoming resource for newcomers. I think forums would be a little less personal, but in a good way: set up more as an approachable resource for anyone to jump into, and less like interrupting a private conversion.

I'd love to see all the plexiglass questions grouped together in a forum. I think new people jump into the open threads just fine, but alot of great info gets lost in the threads . . .

Forums so people could actually go back and find info they are interested in. Open threads are fun but necessarily the best resource for people to get questions answered.

Also what would be great was a way to show new posts in the forums you haven't read yet. It gets old always going back to the Open Thread and trying to figure what is new and what you have already read.

Forgot the "not" after but!

Why can't we have both? Open Threads for fun mid-day general conversations and Forums for the specific questions.

The way that AT is currently structured, all old posts 'fall to the bottom' or just get archived.

It would be fabulous if we had a more forum-like structure that would bump up active posts, no matter what the age. I bet there are lots of instances of people who Google for information, find an old AT post that fits the bill, they post a comment... and nothing - because no one knows it's there!

I would love to be able to watch topics/subscribe to certain threads.

Open threads are fun but I have mixed feelings about them.

And - what Jeremy said.

Forums are much more usable, and develop a better community feeling I've found.

I agree with what everyone's saying about the forums. My only worry, and this may be irrelevant, is that any other forums I've seen on other sites are difficult to read. Can a forum be organized like a forum, but still look like an open thread?

Sorry to change the subject, but has anyone else received the new CB2 catalog. I got mine yesterday and absolutely loved just about everything in it. I've been browsing their site alot for the last six months, but there is just something about a catalog that just brings furniture and accessories to life.

I agree with everyone who suggested both forum and thread. Occasionally there are topics on that pop up on open threads that are really, really interesting and then someone changes the subject and it seems to disappear, yet it is nice to have an open thread. Two separate places to go that maintain user friendliness and encourage newcomers.

The new CB2 catalog is OUT??? I will be watching my mailbox. Glad to know it's debuting this week.

Okay, and since this is an open thread, I just want to blurt out that I do not have the Bertoia orphans yet. I hope to get them THIS week. The new chairs that will replace the Bertoias are delayed.

And - I'm not moving for a bit. I discovered my dad (who's old) couldn't manage the steep stairs. And I hate the idea of my dad not being able to visit.

So I've refined my search for something ground-level. And with some verve to it!

Oh, and Anne TFO Dallas mentioned posts falling to the bottom - yes, yes, I agree. This should be addressed.

I'm going through a trial and error phase right now with some block prints. The trial?- water soluble block printing ink (speedball). The error?- The prints come out patchy and rough in some spots.

Does anyone know if screen printing ink (poster ink) has a better flow?

I vote for the forum and open thread combo.

Question:
Where is a good place to buy dried or artificial flowers in NYC?

I voted "Forums" only because there wasn't a "both" option. But I think that both would be good. And if anyone is REALLY ambitious, it would be great if the forums could be started with sorting through old Open Threads and posting stuff we've all already said about those things.

For instance: "artificial flowers in NYC", becase then New Tenant would have all that stuff we discussed before on there, in case some of those folks who said good stuff were away at the moment (like P2 is, because he always says good stuff).

Meanwhile, New Tenant, I've had good success in the Flower District, especially 28th Street, between 6th and 7th Avenues. PANY is the name of one good place, which is toward the 7th Avenue end on the South side of the street, but there's another couple of places across the street whose names escape me, but and each their selection is VAST and their salespeople are VERY helpful and not NEARLY as semi-cranky as the lady at PANY.

A possible option that would be like open threads would to make it more like this site. It is a directed open thread on a specific question. Check out the Fuel portion on the upper right hand side.

http://www.gapersblock.com/

http://www.gapersblock.com/fuel/archives/weight_watching/

I like how it is separate from the normal blog postings, that way I don't have to search through all the blog posts to find it when I want to find it. The question changes every few days. Could be a good way to get people's opinions on a specific design topic. Gapers Block even lets readers submit questions they want to have asked as the next Fuel question.

BTW this is a great site for Chicagoans if you haven't been to it before.

Oh, and I should say, like others have: I really like open threads, especially ones oriented around a direct question or topic. I just think that this place has more than enough momentum and traffic to sustain both. Forums could be a really great resource. Some good blogs have added successful forums - http://chocolateandzucchini.com/forums/ is one example...

I don't know. But if you're asking for general thoughts/ideas. I think it would be great if AT got involved with a ny apartment renovation and followed it step by step. That would sort of create a storyline to discuss, one by one, in a forum: floors, windows, kitchen counters, paints, bathroom tiles, etc.

Like This Old House except more decide as you go (as people do) and without the automatic driveway de-icer.

What's wrong with an automatic driveway de-icer?!? :)

It is a must here in Chicago on new condo construction. Otherwise my neighbors cars who park on the slanted driveway would be crashing into the garage door on some days!

I never read the open threads on AT-- like most of your lurking readers, I bet, I'm too busy at work (and after) to meander through. Websites with forums (fora?) on the other hand, allow me to quickly scan the topics and jump in if I have something to contribute. I'm guessing your postings would skyrocket with a forum interface.

I changed my mind from what I voiced here
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/052505/open-threads/open-thread-27-002878

I think we either need a forum (and the one from http://www.phpbb.com used by gothamist and many others is the best out there IMO) or a way to simply hit a "Next Page" button at the bottom of each page to keep going back to posts that have fallen off the first page.

Too much stuff keeps dropping off that first page too quickly.

PS

Anybody know anything about where to find the silvery-blue sheen?

both

alas, i too have wished to re awaken an old comment.

Yes, Anne of Dallas is right. We need a combo thread/forum combo.

I like the threads for 2 reasons... 1 because I love the conversational-sometimes bitchy-sometimes warm- always comunity like feel and 2 because these aren't expert facts, they are opions.
Sure there are designers on here and whatnot, but there are also a lot of people with a great eye and an opinion.... and some with no eyes and opinions... and that is good.
I think it would be a disservice to treat the open threads as something they are not... I think they are a great soundingboard and a lot of fun.

and while I'm sounding an opinion... yeah, love that CB2 stuff, there is a brown sofa on there that I am drooling over.

I just glanced at http://www.livemodern.com/forums, and it looks very Balkanized. Now, that was just a glance, and of course I have no feel for the place.

I really like the threads and think I'd prefer them. Open threads are like sittin' around talkin'. Forums are like a focused meeting. They have to be; if they are not kept on-topic, they start having all kinds of problems.

Organizedhome.com has forums, but it is also very communal in spirit. It is vigorously moderated to keep it that way.

Forums take up a *ton* of bandwidth if they are part of a larger site, and only a small percentage of site hits consist of forum *posters* as opposed to readers. So, you're spending tons of time and money on a *small* group.

Last week I was saying that there are affordable apts. in new high rises around the city. Here in Hell's Kitchen Community Board 4 has posted this about the upcoming apts. that will be available:
http://www.manhattancb4.org/planning_info/pub_review/housing.html

Definitely worth looking at.

One huge plus to adding a forum-type structure is requiring a log-in to post - and eliminating the numbers/letters entry requirement that bugs so many of us now. Polling would be easier.

Also - PHOTOS! It would be much easier to attach photos within individual message posts now - no more "click on my name to see my groovy bathmat" type instructions needed.

Those who would like to set up a user profile could do so. Private messages could be enabled.

Lottalivin.com's forums are good and well-organized, and they don't seem to have lost their personal touch. (I lurk there... and the Big D Modernists forum on livemodern.com)

One thing that would concern me, though, would be how to transfer the beautiful, colorful mountain of old content and archives into a new structure.

I'm sure it's doable, but I am not technical and I have no idea how to achieve that.

We could still do Open Threads within a forum-type structure. But it would be much easier to search for keywords and topics with a different database structure.

I agree - keeping the warmth and familiarity of AT is key!!

Could we have both?

I think there is something warm and welcoming about AT in general which is fostered by the open threads, but I hear the people who would like a more focused discussion.

Perhaps have forums and only one open thread per week instead of every day?

I'm someone who surfs your site when looking for ideas for my loft, which means I'm here a lot in spurts and then not here for a while.

Right now, I'm trying to find modern stylish bedding. If you had forums, I could go there and post a specific question. Since you don't, I have no idea where to look. Maybe there's an open thread somewhere where my question has been discussed? I don't know. I've searched the archives here but I came up empty.

Open threads seem like a great way to get a general conversation going, but they're not especially useful when it comes to specifics, and that limits the ability for AT to be more of an informational resource.

I voted to keep threads, and I seem to be in the minority.

The reason I voted to keep open threads, though they're not that helpful categorically, is that forums would radically change the nature of whatever community has grown up around this blog. If you add forums, a blog is no longer a blog, it's a site with a blog and forums. That seems like an obvious distinction, but what happens is that you start to see people who never look at the rest of the site, only the forums, and people who never venture into the community part of the site because forums, and registration and so on, can be intimidating when compared with simply leaving a comment. I believe that the majority of a blog's interaction should take place in its comments, and that forums should be stand-alone things.

If someone wants to know about bedding, the google search string would be "apartment therapy" bedding or "apartment therapy" linens. It's been addressed several times in the archives - there was a long thread, NOT in "open threads" either, discussing the "best of bedding" a few months ago. If this is difficult to find - and I don't think it necessarily is - that's a problem of the way information is structured in the archives, not necessarily a reason to open up a whole new can o' worms.

Here's a thought! Picture a world where we had forums, but let's say you're in an Open Thread and something that someone has just about Linens leads you into a thought about Headboards, right? Maybe one could insert a link to the Headboard thing and continue that part of the discussion there.

"If someone wants to know about bedding, the google search string would be "apartment therapy" bedding or "apartment therapy" linens."

That's precisely what I did. And I found information scattered about here and there, but it took more effort than it was worth since, in the end, I didn't find what I'm looking for. I ended up spending more time on other sites. If other sites turn out to be better resources, I spend less time coming here.

With forums, people could post specific questions and people could post follow-ups to specific questions. Here, you've either got to hijack a linens thread to ask a headboards question, or you go to google and search - probably going to other sites.

AT has precisely the type of readers that I feel like I can relate to - design wise. It's just a shame I can't more easily seek out their advice.

I agree with the previous poster about AT keeping open threads too, but forums and open threads are two completely different things.

Anyone got tips for hiding a litterbox? Know where I can find a room-divider type screen that's only 3 feet tall? (to hide the litterbox) Where can I find sheets with bold black/red/white stripes? Does anyone have experience with Area duvets?

Forums would be phenomenal here thanks to the readers AT has.