apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Anne- It's on it's way right *now*! I'm SO sorry - that trip jumbled up my brain it seems. Or maybe it's just getting older :)

Cakepainter - Good to meet/chat with you too! Wondered why we haven''t seen your name here since the party. I was afraid someone mugged you for your Whole Foods goodies :)

Hey Vu,

OPEN THE KITCHEN. The only time a closed off kitchen is needed is when you have 100 rooms and only the kitchen staff will be in there. A family would certainly enjoy the open concept, as would anyone, as people naturally gravitate toward the kitchen & it makes for a perfect Mom (or Dad) making dinner and can see the kiddies from where they are situation.

There are many ways to visually separate things, two-height islands, pony walls, sliding upper cabinets. Trust me on this one, you won't be sorry.

thanks Joey

Vu

I agree with Joey. I love open kitchens. If i bought a house with a closed kitchen, that would be first thing I would change. You get to talk to your family or guests when you are cooking, instead of being isolated from the action. And it makes most places feel more spacious and airy.

I'm heading for Trader Joe's today with my bright green/yellow shopping bad and a wheely cart (question: how to spot anne in the TJ crowd?) I already have my list and can't wait. Maybe I'll run (literally) into some of you there.

TRADER JOE'S IN MANHATTAN! LIFE IS GOOD!

I'll be there with the bald man with the goatee...

shopping 'bag'. (although it IS a bad one)

woo hoo! I'm so excited! I hope I can make it there after work. Will it be a zoo?

I can't even stand going into Whole Foods at Union Square because the line makes me feel ill.

DC---

Details on community shred tomorrow: www.nbc4.com/sponsors/5340872/detail.html

Pixie, I had to look that up.
What a funny idea!

Update on the renovation: so I get home last night and find the contractor holding the baby. I try to the kid and he immediately begins screaming, leaning back towards the contractors' arms. This is now a trifecta: this chap has pretty much assumed all my net wealth, is quite possibly banging my wife and has now taken the love of my son.

In other news the milk glass arrived for our kitchen cabinets and each cabinet is a different godamned shade of milk glass. So back they go, post a screaming phone call from yours truly.

see you at TJ's!! i hope to make it there early this afternoon.

life will be great when the farmer's market is full of flowers and fresh produce in a few months and i can pick up goodies at TJ's as well. : )

Jonathan, that sucks on all fronts. Boy can I sympathize with you. You want to talk construction nightmares? My stories would make you feel sooooooo much better about your situation.

i was at the TJs 8:45 in the morning. lots of people / media / bloggers everywhere.

i got my fix of "triple ginger snaps". the wine store hasn't opened yet.

ok. question. i'm decided between the following 2 pieces:

1. http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=1151&f=3444
2. http://ww2.potterybarn.com/cat/pip.cfm?src=shpcfurabstvs%7Crshop&pkey=cfurabstvs&gids=p4910

note: 2 will be without the hutch.

the main question i have is what do you think of framing the TV in a high side piece or should the whole unit be the same height with only the TV visually being the only thing higher then the unit. also note that i have speakers from the my audio unit, about a foot tall, that will be going on top of the side pieces.

Trader Joe's will have to wait a little while, 'cause today is my birthday AND I'm Irish! So I'll be checking out the interiors of several pubs later on :)
A generous gift has made the possibility of a new skinny fridge much more realistic today. Yay! Going on a serious shopping trip for one soon.

Happy Birthday Trish!!

was great meeting/chatting w. you at the AT party last week - hope your bday is fab. and i want to belatedly (a hectic week- hardly been at the computer) thank maxwell, sarakate and jill for hosting such a nice get together.

Does anyone wanna talk to me about pros/cons of opening a kitchen up to the LR/DR? It would result in a 14x40 "great room" and the kitchen is being gutted anyway, so it could look great. I grew up in a house with 100 tiny rooms so it feel wierd to me, but what do I know. I'm in medicine and I'm never home. If this kitchen wasn't empty (literally no oven or sink), I'd skip it. But that's why it was cheap. Also, will likely move/sell in 3-4 years so resale is really a key factor (I'm in Cobble HIll and have 3 bedrooms so I guess I'd end up selling to a family if that matters) Thank you

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TRISH!

Hey where's my photo of the zigzag fire escape in the snow? I never got it.

Thought for the day -

Watch your step. Don't slip on puke.

Ok, I'm outta here.

marc:

selection 1, no contest. lately, everything from pottery barn looks really unappealing to me.

Congrats NYC on your TJs! There are times when I live on their lowfat bean and cheese burritos, which sound nasty, but are good.

Pixie, thanks for the info on the community shred!!!

since i've no fear of humiliating myself:

ok, what's trader jacks?

true to my word of self-humiliation:

that's trader JOES.

Not to harp on the community shred, but I'm so there...even just out of curiosity. I have a bag of stuff to shred, and am curious what the scene will look like. Maybe I can drag a friend...

pphillipp, I can't help you except to, if you have the time, type this into google for lots of posts and opinions on TJ:

+trader +joes site:curbed.com

Ah, what is Trader Joes....where to start. Well, at the very basic sense, it's kind of like a Whole Foods, but cheaper. It's a specialty food store, essentially--with some natural/organics. Lots of their food is self-label. An interesting point about them is that, though they were opened buy a dude in California, they're now owned by the German firm which owns the budget grocer Aldi. It's the same concept...own label, limited assortment, ditch a product if it doesn't sell. They've just recently forayed into urban centers--they had been strictly in suburban old shopping centers near huge shopping centers (can you tell I research this kind of stuff? ). For some, however, Trader Joes is like a religion. It ain't all that--but I like it because in my neck of the woods, making a short trip there is much more efficient than the suburban humungo grocery stores (work in the 'burbs). Great assortments of cheese, nuts, dried fruit, and frozen foods that are good. And, if you're in a place that can sell beer/wine in grocery stores, they have a good assortment of wine too...

and home to the world famous Two Buck Chuck
http://www.traderjoes.com/locations/map/540.asp

jpup/chrisdc - thanks! and i love curbed.com.

sadly, living in the part of brooklyn where seagulls are more common than pigeons, dunno how often i'd get there.

but WE have net cost market - and if you're jonesing for blini mix, kefir, caviar, or a killer carrot salad, come on down.

Marc
no question - the crate and barrel unit - the pottery barn one is hideous. I'm not kidding.

Marc--
I don't think either unit is "hideous" but they do seem to be of two totally different styles... which suits your home more?

To me, bridging over the top of the TV as the one unit does is less sleek but more cozy. It also gives the opportunity to paint in the wall behind the TV a color if you so desire. I think this installation makes it much more important for the shape of your actual TV to be the same proportion as the bridged opening , if that makes any sense.

The version where no bridge goes over the top (and the style of those pieces) is more contemporay.

Not to muddy the waters further, but have you also looked at Bo Concept, and (don't laugh, but...) Ethan Allen?

Marc,

I agree the the C&B unit is far superior. However, I find something about putting the speakers on top of the side parts a bit unnerving. Something about the scale of having that height dwarfing the TV. But I am projecting my tv/speaker dimensions and yours might not be the same.

Speaking of TV storage, I have been looking for a small/low-slung tv storage unit with doors so that I do not see the TV unless I am watching it. I cannot find anything remotely acceptable. Entertainment "armoires" are huge and hideous. Anything that is halfway decent looks-wise is an open "media cart". Any suggestions?

I'm not 100% on board with the "open up the kitchen" as an automatic answer.

I think sometimes it improves flow and perceived size of the overall space, but (if not well done) turns a "home" into a "studio". Or looks like the area of Home Depot where "the kitchens are." And I still say cooking smells are an issue...

And if you personally are not a "social cooker", not sure what you gain for the trouble.

But an open kitchen seems to be trend, so if you have an eye on resale, are in a family area, and have the opportunity to do it now, open it up.

Vu,
When we bought our apartment a few years ago, we thought we should open up a passthrough from the kitchen to the living room, but then we decided against it. Having a closed-off kitchen helps keep the smells there, which can be especially strong when frying foods. Perhaps a hood would help, but we don't have one.

Just saw the post about Schrager Home closing.
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/031706/flatiron-district/schrager-home-closing-sale-starts-today-000417
I hope all of the people who are still waiting for delivery are able to get their stuff or a refund.

i, too, am against the one-size-fits-all "open up the kitchen" answer.

do you cook? a lot? do you plan to have costly furniture? if you're cooking on high heat (which you often need to do to sear meat properly), and you're making something like duck breast - or anything with any fat content - your furnirture is going to smell - no question.

what's wrong with having a kitchen large enough where people can congregate? i understand the "entertaining" issue, really - but again, if you can all hang in the kitchen, then move out to the living room, what's the problem? my friends up on RSD have a massive kitchen (lucky pigs), it's closed, and it's always nice to be in there with the warmth, with the smell of good food, etc.

but i don't want to smell curry every time i sit on my sofa.

i think there might be room in the C&B unit to put the speakers inside, but on the PB unit they will def have to be on top

i might eventually have to get a new entertainment untit with small speakers, but not yet...

i am really looking forward to getting the flat screen tv, though, i am going to gain so much space (in a small studio, around 500sqft). Right now I have a 40"X40"X60" Ikea metal and blond wood unit that I can't wait to get rid of. there is alot of wasted space on each side of it that I'll be able to reclaim, and a short unit will make the apt look bigger. I also have a couple of CD racks that I am going to get rid of (I haven't looked at CD's since the ipod years ago).

I'll post pictures of everything when it comes together.

marc

Good point pphillip - the other option is to have a big eat in kitchen. Having grown up in manhattan, I never had anything like that. we had a galley kitchen and I hated it. If you have the room for an eat-in kitchen, it could be the best of both worlds. For a smaller space, I would still go with the open kitchen. as far as smells are concerned, i inferred that the poster did not cook all that much, but i could be wrong. If the kitchen is just being used to fix quick easy dishes, getting drinks, etc., I think the open kitchen is more practical. And again, it is definitely my personal preference. But that's just me - not meant to be a one-size-fits-all answer. sheesh :)

(...to say nothing of the grease which will inevitably be disseminated through the air. take a look at the top of your kitchen cabinets. do you want that on your draperies and upholstery and carpeting and...?)

don't worry NT, no acrimony intended. you are still my super-goddess due to the funniest post i've ever seen on AT - the remains of the charred puppy trying to save the orphan from the fire, or something like that ;)

Hey everyone -
Should I bid on/buy the duvet cover linked in my name? My bedroom is sage green, my bed is dark cherry and very solid - will this be too much dark in relation to the bed?

thanks!!

Rachel: too much dark, too busy and not restful. The bedroom should be a place of peace. After a long day of getting abused on the AT message boards and getting more or less sodomized at the workplace, I like to come home to a peaceful bedroom. Also, maybe it's seeing "denver" next to your name followed by the color of those sheets but it immediately made me think of Mr. Hankey dancing around your bedroom.

My 2 cents about grease and smells.
You need a very strong hood extractor that vents to the outside to combat these two evils effectively. Due to the way nyc lots are built up, leaving no way to vent except up through the building (expensive to retrofit) you will typically only be able find external venting hoods in newer buildings.

I have already, ahem, vented about our new place with the sleek European appliances which includes a Miele low profile extractor that does vent to the outside but it is not as powerful as the Viking hood we once had over a viking range. It is a lot quieter but simply does not do the job as fully as the viking did which sounded like truck rushing towards you. Give me the viking (or similar) any day.

I really like open kitchens because in the three last places I have had them, they contribute greatly to the flow of the place and to socializing. However, the noisy extractor is an issue but once the cooking is over and the serving is going on then it is an intrusion that only lasts a short while so is not that bad. Ppl still stay in the kitchen area after the cooking is done.

One thing that I di notice last night though was, even having a supposedly quiet dishwasher (Miele again) I could still hear it over the TV enough for it to be a distraction. And this is in a fairly big living room/kitchen area. That may bother some ppl also. Funny thing is I have never noticed it before.

Well, sure. Everyone loves a large EIK but in NYC those are rare. So your options are the 7x11ish galley or open. It's a tough call. I like closed. But people LOVE open these days and you'll def. sell to a family. So I'd open it up.

Hi Guys,
Coming to New York for the first time!- Summer/ July (I know I'm the only person on the planet never to visit) Anyway, my hubby, baby are coming with- What are some cool things to see, do and stay! Fun "cool" stuff! We like to have a good time. Thanks ;)

Vu, is there any way you can do a partial open? Perhaps open the wall up, but create a barrier with a dual height island, and drop a portion of the ceiling down to create a wall/header of sorts?

I personally love an open plan/great room sort of effect, and that is what I have now - and I've never really had much problem with cooking smells lingering in my furniture...

Just got back from Trader Joe's aka MADHOUSE. If you're going there in the next few days here's how to work it --
Shop the center aisles first and then get in line. The line is so long that it snakes around the entire store. While in line you can shop the perimeter since you have to slowly make your way around it anyway. When I got in line I had about $20 less in my cart than when I finally got to check-out. But I met some nice people in line and had some good conversations (Hi Lisa!).

Wine shop isn't open yet. They say they're "fine tuning it".

rachel (id)--
I vote yes on the bedding, since the scale of that is so big, the white plays as big a role as the brown, so I think it is bright and liveable. Have seen it in person and I really like it.

I just got their ultra-wide (brown and white) awning stripe for when I change out my bed for a summer look.

well, that was fun and funny

I popped into TJs around 11am. My TJ-starved pal was already in line, which only doubled back once at that point and went really quickly. I picked up a kidney-colored dendrobium orchid for $20 . . . wasn't actually there to grocery shop.

We went to Whole Foods to have tea, and were frequently and enthusiastically assaulted about TJs. I got into excited conversations holding that TJ bag on the subway...it's a citywide fever for the expat Californians.

Congrats to NYC on your Trader Joe's -- you've waited so long!

To those who haven't experienced TJs yet: you will likely NOT be disappointed and you MIGHT well become hooked!

We have about four of them to choose from here in Boston; the first one that opened 'round these parts was about three blocks from where I lived at the time (7+ years ago) so I've been addicted to certain of their products for quite a while.

Thanks ptoo.

I think it's a great price point, hopefully it won't go up too much more. I like that it's just the duvet cover too, I'm not big into matchy matchy with the shams and all.

I'm selling some stuff on there myself, and some crazy fools are actually buying it, so it could be a win-win situation. :)

anne-

Happy to hear you survived Trader Joe's! I'll pass on your tips to my friend Vinnie, destined there later today or tomorrow.

Vu,
I like the *idea* of an open kitchen, but sometimes, it's nice to have it separated too--like when you are entertaining and you have stuff kind of a mess, and as people have mentioned--smells. I had a kitchen with a door once that I loved for that reason...my last apartment had part of the kitchen exposed--the counter into the dining area into the living room (this sounds much more expansive than it is!). Though it felt nice and open, sometimes it was too open. I'm sort of 50-50 on the idea.

Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in a mansion, but even in my grandparents' rather large house, with a completely closed off kitchen, when Nanny was making lasagna or baking cookies, you smelled them as soon as you walked in, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. In fact I don't think I've ever been in a house that didn't transmit cooking smells, but again, no mansion here.

When I was shopping for appliances (and yes it IS very important to get the quiet ones with an open kitchen) I was looking at island range hoods. This particular store has cooking classes on Saturdays, and one was in session. The saleslady said "That's one of the more expensive hoods that he's using right now. What do you smell? Puttanesca. You'll always smell SOMETHING, but really , who doesn't want that? Aroma is what makes cooking beautiful and lures you to the food in the first place."

From a strictly visual standpoint, I do advocate some sort of pony wall or double-height bar to hide the mess you might not want to clean up right away.

"Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in a mansion, but even in my grandparents' rather large house, with a completely closed off kitchen, when Nanny was making lasagna or baking cookies, you smelled them as soon as you walked in, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. In fact I don't think I've ever been in a house that didn't transmit cooking smells, but again, no mansion here."

neither did i - not by a long shot. but smelling something cooking in the house is not the same thing as having your belongins permeated by cooking odors. and if your house smells of such (residual) odors the minute you walk in, i don't think it's very pleasant.

Especially if you've been cooking up a lot of tripe recently.

Rachel -
This is just ME talkin', but methinx that if your bed is dark cherry and your walls are sage, this thing could very possibly look like a near-miss.

The chocolate brown in such a graphic style seems like it could clash (and I tend to avoid that word) with anything reddish about a cherry wood, and style-wise with how most furniture that's made of it tends to be shaped.

If your walls were white, I'd be tempted to buy it, if I were you, but since they're sage, the bedspread could make your walls just look moldy or something.

That's what I think. Unless you have a lot of white going on in the room AND a lot of chocolate (and I don't mean compatible woods) color going on in there AND some seriously round stuff going in there.

VU -
About that kitchen, would be just too boring to suggest a bar, so that from a distance people are looking at a bar, instead of a pony wall, and instead of the mess that Joey mentions? That is definitely a social kind of thing.

I dunno, the ones that bug my nose from their lingering are onions and garlic, not so much the tripe. But we do a LOT of stir-frying and high heat cooking. I'm not talking about smelling food cooking, I'm talking about smelling food you cooked 4 days ago.

regards,
trillium

And happy birthday, Trish M.! They welcomed you as if you were new, but were on that big old walk we all did! But if you've been gone for a while, then I, too, welcome you back with us.

burning a few candles goes a long way to getting rid of the, er, tripe smell.

I just visited a small studio where a steak had been seared the night before. There was no mistaking it, and my friend was wildly apologetic about the stink.
I suggested the candle cure.
It worked.

would that everything was so easy . . .

i often boil cinnamon sticks on low heat in an open saucepan. sometimes with orange or lemon rinds.

sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

and now that i'm out of the contest thread, i can say a more polite "thank you" to guido for her recommendations.

thank you (

Thanks curtis -

The thing is - I'm totally open to changing absolutely anything about the room - I don't really love the green walls (and want to paint them the darkest blue from Restoration Hardware)

But yeah, it's the cherry wood that I am worried about. it's dark - really dark - but there's still that reddish undertone.

---

For the kitchen cooking smells - I am going to pimp my favorite product: Lampe Bergere - catalytic air purifier that destroys odor causing bacteria, and can scent up the place too - but doesn't have to.

Could someone provide an html tutorial for AT? I've had zero success posting links. Thank you.

ebrown - you can either put the link in the "url" space when you post a comment, or just copy and paste (less desirable since it stretches the page) it into the body of the comment.

HTML Tutorial (I think):

If you retain the http portion of the web site, it will create a link (but as rachel said if it is a really long link it will stretch the page).

Example:
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/

It won't work without the http.

www.apartmenttherapy.com

See, no link?

(She says, hoping she's right before it posts)

Vu -

When we bought our fixer-upper 1+ yr ago, we had an eat-in kitchen. Everyone who came by to see the place pre-gut declared that we HAD to get rid of the wall. We did, and could not be more thrilled with the results.

Where a wall used to be, we now have a peninsula -- which is great because it adds counter space, storage space, and an additional eating space (when you put a couple of bar stools in place). The kitchen is adjacent to the dining room and knocking down the wall makes the DR look much bigger now (another perk). We don't have any smell/grease issues because we have a hood (and windows), plus the living room is a decent distance from the oven/stovetop.

So my vote is for the open plan.

Gracias! Merci! Thank you.

You can also shorten a link by using this site:
http://tinyurl.com/

Suggestions for TJ shopping. In the freezer comparment: jasmine rice. pepperoni and sausage pizza, chicken or turkey pot pies, succotash; gyoza; vanilla/mango soy dream. Also two buck Chuck. Almond, cashew, cranberry trail mix. Three ginger snap cookies. Vegetarian black bean chili.

Hello all,
A few days (weeks?) ago there was a photo of 2 hanging wicker chairs (I think there was also a photo of hanging bubble chairs wit it)and I can't for the life of me find it. Does anyone remember this photo and know where I can find it in the archive?
Thanks,
Randi

Piggy backing on Vu's open kitchen question...

I'm moving into an apartment with a kitchen that opens to the living room and am thinking of painting the living room. Other than the start of the cabinets and the counter, there's no boundary between the two. What can I do to create a boundary or am I better off connecting the two rooms by continuing the paint in the kitchen?

Don't continue the same color into the kitchen but rather pick a complimentary color instead. I would think that you would want a division of space but you need to blend the 2 since it's an open concept. And then bring something of each color into the other space even if it's just potholders in the color of the living room and a pillow in the color of the kitchen.

Another great blending tip for the two rooms - mask off a 3-5 (or 8? 10?) inch section from floor to ceiling along the dividing line, and paint that a 3rd complimentary colour.

Say you are painting your kitchen the colour of a latte, and your living room the colour of espresso - make a bold graphic stripe between the two using a colour that can be complemented in both rooms - a deep red or orange, perhaps, or a bright baby blue...

Rather than hiding the fact that you're trying to connect the two rooms, this celebrates the connection and allows for an extra splash of colour.

I'm baffled by the open kitchen concept. It seems to me to be one of those mcmansion amenities for those who "entertain" but never really do. I KNOW Im wrong but I entertain almost every single week and have a galley kitchen--not ideal but i dont want everyone in there--is everyone such a neat cook?

It's not just about entertaining. I care more about every day when it's just my girlfriend and me than the once every couple of weeks when people are over. I had a galley and it wasn't good for entertaining, but it was no good for my girlfriend and me. If you put kids in the mix (not an issue for me, yet), you wouldn't want to be in a different room when you are preparing food.

I have a very active toddler but my layout is such that there's two entryways and I don't have a problem keeping an eye on him. I read about how no one uses dining rooms anymore but I like not eating in the kitchen--we're big on family dinners and it brings a formal dimension to everyday dinners (even when it's mac and cheese).

I was just doing some online research for a good lightweight stick vacuum (2 room apt., hardwood floors), and I can't find any good reviews. Does anyone happen to have a model they really love? It would be a huge plus if it converted into hand-held mode as well.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Janet,
People on here raved about the electrolux 2 in one a while back and I bought one. It's pretty good as far as stick vacs go and is convertible to a handheld. It's cordless too--which is handy. It's on the steep side for stick vacs--I got mine for $99, I think at sears.

Here was the discussion I remembered...
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/092905/cleaning/best-products-the-shark-1000-watt-vacuum-in-a-small-package-000302

Good luck!

Janet--we have a Miele S143 (the mint green one), and it works wonderfully. Granted, we only have flat-weave carpets, but does a super job with cat hair.

Major pros:
1) you can reconfigure it to be a (slightly heavy) hand-held
2) the cord is so long, that I only have to plug it in once to vacuum the whole apartment
3) it has a special brush you can flip down to protect hardwood floors
4) IT'S ADORABLE

slightly pricey, though (~$230)

I have the stick version of the Shark vacuum, and it does the job just fine (although it's no Dyson). It doesn't convert to hand-held, though, but with its retractable handle, it is TINY.

On open kitchens + toddlers:
My sister keeps a gate across the opening to her kitchen to keep the toddlers out. But my acrobatic niece climbed over the counter and turned on the disposal before my sister arrived. Could've been a nightmare.

Maybe I'm over-reacting because I never liked looking at appliances from the living room.
I haven't ever been in a house where the kitchen has a door. That sounds like a mansion to me.

more trader joes joys:
yummy snacks, condiments + sauces,
dollar Cliff bars, greek style yogurt,
strawberry protein drinks