apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

well, sure, if you want to be all positive about it. But where's the fun in that? ;)

I have to admit I didn't read the domino piece because all the flippin' flipping stuff is driving me nuts in general, so I can't say whether it was a decent article on flipping--all I can say was that it was an article on flipping, and that was enough to annoy me. I'm glad they said it wasn't easy--because it's not.

I STILL didn't get my Dwell. I swear my mail guy must be hoarding my magazines, while Dave in DC's delivers his promptly. Price I pay for living in quasi Cap. Hill instead of Kalorama. I got Met home yesterday, though, so my magazine lust was satiated for the day.

There was a time I got maybe 1 magazine. Now, I get, at last count, 7 not counting my professional organization magazine, which makes 8 or my college publication which makes 9. I've had to institute a rule that I have to take a magazine with me each day to the gym and then leave it there to "recycle" with the other patrons.

OK, so I bought Domino and Dwell yesterday and can't see what all the fuss is about (in the last open thread I think).

Domino and flipping RE:
I was expecting a fluff piece about how easy flipping RE is and how you should always add a personal touch when renovating such as making drapes from your favorite wrap dress.

But no, we got a fairly informative (for such a short piece) article on the issues you should look out for when buying to flip and real advice from someone who could very well be one of us (i.e. not a pro in business for years but someone who found out the hard way) that was not condescending or too shallow to be of any use.

On to Dwell and the small homes for less than 1700 sqft:
Dwell is a national mag and the national average size of a home in the US is around 2500 sqft so doing a piece on innovative homes less than 1700 sqft in size is not such a bad thing. Of course NYC apts tend to be much smaller but the world does not revolve around NYC despite what I'd like to think ;)
Besides, there was a great 700sqft NYC place which was well worth the price of entry. In fact they said that the place was 50' long by 12.5' wide which is 625 sqft so it would have been a worthy contendor in the smallest, coolest competition.

My favorite bit was the stepped loft area where the bed was raised on a platform which was actually the raised ceiling of the kitchen (meaning the area above the bed was low) but the perimiter of the bed was on a lowered section that did not encroach into the kitchen height because that's where they built the closet and fridge enclosure. Thus, you could easily walk around the bed without stooping.

I actually think this issue of Dwell was the best in a long time.

*jamie pup, now you've interested me in theat loft bed solution I might just buy the issue.

NT, sorry didn't answer yesterday your question: work madness.
The sofas I liked are at M2L (click on my name for their collections), they are retail as well as for the trade, I think.

Curtis, I was punished for my big mouth: just when I recommended earthlink to you they started having some technical problems in Iova (don't ask, that's what their recorded msge says) and I'm off the net at home 3rd day in a row! I'm having shakes, ppl; Jonathan, can you share the perkoset?

Jamie Pup:

I am guilty on both issues that you raise above. I plead 'not guilty' on one and cry 'mea culpe' on the other.

First, mea culpe. My tear on Dwell yesterday was based on recent issues. I also received mine last night and planned to post that I, too, was actually impressed with the content. I LOVED the lofted apartment you described...in particular the extra clever spiral stairs, the small gap in the wall left in one corner of the kitchen (featured in a photo) to allow the air and light to pass through, and the gap between the fridge/closet top and the bed left in the loft (as I think you described much more coherently than I just did).

Sure, some of the spaces were larger than what we work with. Sure, some of the spaces were created with professionals/resources not available to all of us. However, I for one don't mind my magazines being "aspirational."

I disagree on the Domino story, however, because I do feel like it is a big problem in the real estate market, akin to (someone else said this yesterday) day-trading during the dot.com boom. Of course cover headlines are always exaggerated, but the headline on Domino reads something like "Become a Millionaire Flipping Houses" or something like that. No, its not a moral crisis akin to illegal detentions, abuse of privacy laws, physical torture or countless other things that go on in our world today, but it is a pet peeve of mine. I don't think it is unreasonable to float this complaint in this forum. So on this issue I plead "not guilty."

Christine, I swear sometimes my postal delivery person reads my mags before she delivers them!

But seriously, kudos to you about the gym thing. I bring mine to my office kitchen.

Maybe we should launch something like Tupperware parties. It would make me feel a lot better about dropping a wad on Elle Decor UK if I knew I could trade it for a few back issues of O at Home!

Jennifer, I missed it yesterday: what do you find so appaling in flipping houses?

I have no real issue with the spaces shown in Dwell, but there is something about that magazine that is so lifeless, in my opinion. I am a magazine junkie, and I get it, leaf through it, and set it aside til the next one comes.

I can't put my finger on why it doesn't engage me. It doesn't normally take much, since I'll read any magazine at least 3 times.

Maybe I'd like something more about the people living there, or the designers. The writing is just so bland.

did anyone see my 4:00 AM post yesterday. i spent all night in the hospital because i chopped clean-off a not-insignificant piece of my finger off last night. now i'm godamned deformed. i'm a gimp, except without the assless chaps. and i still have no sconces to match the globe light in the cdining room

Christine, I live in "real" Capitol Hill, and I hardly ever get my copies of Yankee, which is not exactly available at every supermarket checkout like it is up home. Make sure Dwell has you in the right quadrant.

Jonathan, your deformity has not impaired your ability to type. Hopefully it will not impair your ability to flick the light switch to the sconces you do not have.

Things could be worse for you, and better for us.

(Seriously, damn, sorry to hear of your accident).

thanks. of course i came in this morning to face derision from my colleagues. here was the money quote from the gentleman who sits next to me when he saw the gauze and bandages around my finger: "did the guy clench?"

lovely

Jonathan,
I hear you. I've thought of pitching my own cooking show, "The Clumsy Chef". I think there's a market out there, that blood in the dill would not bother too much.

I'm also apparently clumsy when it comes to entering the security code in the correct field.

Hey Tat: Check out the discussion from yesterday, it is still posted. Won't bore others by re-hashing (and "appalling" btw is your word, not mine).

Besides, since jonathan has now brought up his cut finger, there is no point in discussing anything else, is there?

I posted on the domino issue yesterday because no one had (at that point) responded to Jennifer's comment.

I found it mildly irritating, and said so. Will I stop buying the mag? No. But I don't buy decor mags for real estate or business advice. I also don't want psychological or medical advice from my fashion magazines, but that doesn't stop most of them. I recognize I'm likely in the minority here.

I haven't gotten my new Dwell yet either, but I am hoping it will come soon! I would love to see some innovation on "small" houses - I'm fortunate to have 1100 sq ft, but it's laid out so poorly that we've been tearing walls down left and right. We can't afford a brownstone in NYC, and I'm not brave enough to move to Bushwick with 5 of my closest friends, so we're living in Denver and trying to make our brick ranch look like an urban loft that happens to have 1/3 acre of outdoor space.

I'll have pictures of the rearranged bedroom later today, I"m submitting it for the design sponge spring contest. :)

Original blues, I understand what you are saying. I can also see how that article could seem a little irresponsible.

Personally, my top magazine pet peeve is the sudden onslaught of editors who apparently think they are celebrities. I mean, it's nice to see an editor's picture once in a while, but what's with the pages of commentary like "I love dots!" with photos of the editors and various dotted objects surrounding them.

It is driving me crazy and it's popping up in most magazines. Soon, The Economist will show editors with captions like "Freedom is in in Belarus!" and various happy protesters.

I mean, I'd love to be a magazine editor, so nothing against them, but why are we suddenly supposed to be so intrigued by every single staff member of a magazine?

Pixie in DC got Dwell AND Met Home in the mail yesterday.

The loft article in Dwell was fantastic. The loft bed is very, very clever.

OK Jennifer, I'll let you off this time.

However, to reiterate, going by what was actually said about the Domino article, it was difficult to ascertain what the complaint was about. My immediate thought was that it was something to do with sprucing up your investment with matching pieces from you wardrobe - or something like that.

So I've been meaning to ask for a while Original Blues; are you the Blue who installed engineered wood flooring in their rental a few weeks ago? That blue had been posting for a while and then a new blue popped up about two weeks ago and I lost track.

WRT Dwell. In the mag survey we had a few months ago I said that I had been reading Dwell since the start but that I had given up on it so I understand why ppl don't like it now but I'm just saying the latest issue is a good one.

BTW, I would do a regular mag swap thing with AT ppl in NYC. Good idea Jennifer.

Jamie Pup:

When I am not at (sorta) work I will write *succinctly* about the flip-thing.

DC AT PEOPLE: Magazine swap? See JP's reference? Anybody want to try?

Vince? Did anyone ever hear anything from Vince after all the communal panting about his Ikea doors?

Ooops. Sorry.

Now to really monopolize this open thread, I need help finding some pendant lights please.

I need three modern pendant lights to hang above a kitchen island and remember seeing the perfect ones in a Maurice Villency ad from a few years ago. The only time I have seem something similar was in an Italian design mag (DDN or Domus) which is now in storage and I will never be able to find it again!

However, the closet image I can find to link to is actually a floor lamp on the dwr site. You have to imagine this upside down and much smaller (about 8-10" in length with a 3-4" diameter).
http://www.dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=0963

This would have worked also if only it was not so wide. I want a narrow tube:
http://www.dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=5286

BTW, anyone remember when DWR was a knock off place to start with? Kinda like http://www.italydesign.com
That's why their prices were in reach but about a years ago they became official resellers of Knoll and other stuff so the prices changed dramatically. Does anyone else remember the old DWR.

I love that it says "Waterfooler" at the top today - that should be used again for April Fool's!

jp, how about this?

http://ylighting.com/56780-cwh-b.html

there are a few other at ylighting that might work.

Forgot to add this... for those of you in NYC: Paragon Restaurant Supply is having a closing sale for the next few days. Might be worth a look for gadgets, pans, etc. One of my best buys was a sturdy steel work table on the Bowery a few years back (cheap!). Adress is 250 Bowery near Houston St.

The way the Bowery is rapidly being gentrified, it probably won't be the last restaurant supply store to be pushed out.

Thanks minh. I did see that on ylighting and was hoping either ylighting or lightology would be the place(s) I found finally found what I was looking for but no luck.

I do like the proportions and size and the opaque look but would prefer the opaqueness to be uniform. Otherwise this was almost it.

Good loooking out.

Jamie, my arch enemy, here are links to what we considered for our pendants (pulling from my renovation model on excel). We went with the second-to-last ones in the list.

http://www.lightingdirect.com/display.cfm?productid=700JAC&finish=On%20The%20Beach&manufacturer=Tech%20Lighting

http://www.lightingdirect.com/display.cfm?productid=POR%2D8862&finish=Pleats&manufacturer=Justice%20Design%20Group

http://www.lightingdirect.com/display.cfm?productid=POR%2D8866&finish=Waterfall&manufacturer=Justice%20Design%20Group

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/mini-pendants/view.aspx?family=21765

http://www.lightingdirect.com/display.cfm?productid=P4401&finish=Opal%20White&manufacturer=Progress%20Lighting

http://www.lightingdirect.com/display.cfm?productid=POR%2D8827&finish=Leaves&manufacturer=Justice%20Design%20Group

http://www.lightwavesconcept.com/product_info.php/cPath/42_124/products_id/958

http://www.lightingdirect.com/display.cfm?productid=GK%20P402%2D10&finish=Brushed%20Nickel&manufacturer=Kovacs

jamie pup--
Some candidates...

http://tinyurl.com/lgk8j

http://tinyurl.com/nnzf5

http://tinyurl.com/qny5t

Jennifer, I think that would be fun, but I'm sure I get all the same ones as everyone else, home related. I get Dwell, Met Home, and Domino right now. I had to stop myself from getting Elle Decor when they sent me an offer. I also get Real Simple, Gourmet, Cooking Light, Shape (which I hate, but got with airline miles), and, gulp, O (not the at home one!). I just realized I miscounted earlier. I still think we should have a DC AT gathering anyway.

Jean--thanks, I'll look into that. I think whoever delivers my mail is incompetent. I know people say that, but I mean it--my mom (embarrassingly) sent me a halloween card I never got and stuff is always put in the wrong box, etc. I already have packages delivered to work, but I should have everything delivered here--the postal worker (what is the proper term--I want to say mailman) here is great. He's a breath of fresh air every day and very competent.

and jamie pup--
Your line "making drapes from your favorite wrap dress" was hysterical. Were it a true Domino feature, though, it would have been followed by at least three exclamation points.

But as Karen Walker is fond of saying, "It's funny 'cuz it's true."

Ok, I think my flickr album should work in the link in my name - the redone bedroom.

*jamie pup, first that came to mind: http://www.idl-lighting.com/
type EL1-PE in the search window. The price is in euros,but they have Minneapolis officein US.

But really, there are so many lighting Co for this type of small pendants, I'm at los where to start; from Lightolier to Visa and beyond.

well, if the topic of the day is lighting suggestions, beloved AT-ers, where would renoir's odalisque ( http://www.orientalist-art.org.uk/renoir.html ) find lighting in new york?

Jonathan, the champion of luck: in lieu of condolences, what do you think of this globe wall sconce?

Jamie Pup,
Good to see you back on the AT boards again. I was just thinking the other day that I hadn't seen you post for some time.

Jonathan,
Ouch and yikes. Sorry to hear about your finger. Get well soon.

Jamie pup,
You've gotten lots of suggestions, here's another one, the Ulisse:
http://www.lightology.com/index.cfm/method-light.store_profile/sku-1801SU-ULISSE-002H1-WHSN

Rasil,
Try Fortuny:
http://www.lightology.com/index.cfm/method-light.search_results

Oops, Fortuny link doesn't work. Try this, or type it in the search box:

http://www.lightology.com/index.cfm?method=light.search_results_advanced&cat=Interior+Lighting&dept=Select+One&type=&Keywords=&Manufacturer=&designer=MARIANO+FORTUNY&minprice=&maxprice=&qoh=&SearchCategory=3&Department=0&depttype=&subtype=&finish=&color=&submit=search

Rasil-

Perhaps ABC? What do you think? Definitely not DWR. :)

wow, three thousand dollar chandeliers. odalisque is a working girl, not a ... mayflower madam, to keep the metaphor.

http://b.im.craigslist.org/za/ah/s2xt2cwOaxie65LgL9r4qgVNCpF6.jpg was pretty to my eyes, though perhaps a bit too much...

i have been looking for a floor lamp for the bedroom for a year, and then my living room lamp crashed, so now i need a living room floor lamp too. this is how i discovered that all the lamps in new york are ugly, too modern to fit with my apt and/or priced at more than my monthly salary.

Trish M,
thanks for the tip re: Paragon Restaurant Supply
my kitchen counter is still sitting in my living room,
so there's still time to improve . . .

If anyone needs a Brooklyn contractor, I have a
superskilled, woodwork detailin' doll, btw
good for massive reconfigurations

Jamie Pup,
I wish there was a drop location
for magazine exchange
except I don't subscribe to any design glossies
and my New Yorker is already spoken for . . .
there's another home/wood/green one
but I forget the title...

Oh Rasil,

I wasn't thinking about price, just style-wise.

I agree it is hard to find good lamps that are reasonably priced. I prefer the paper types (from Ikea to Noguchi).

Speaking of which, did everyone see the Moroccan spread in Elle Décor/April with the Ikea hanging lamp? That one is my favorite (but left mine in Africa).

I did have your same problem, though. I went with $5.95 clip/work lamps at home depot - the kind that are metal. Clipped them to my shelves and pointed them up. I am pleased with the solution.

It looks like Odalisque buys all her furniture in one place (Brothels R Us), and needs to mix it up, lest the ATers get all up in her (Moroccan) grill for being a one-note wonder.

So, off to DWR...

http://dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=3938
or
http://dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=8261
or
http://dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=6563
or (the one I LUST for...)
http://dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=7063

(this is sooo Domino/"turn this painting into a room!!!!")

Rachel: I love your bed. Where did you get it? The room is quite nice.

Rachel -- It's amazing how much difference moving the bed makes! The more colorful art work adds, too.

(I see you removed the Eiffel Towers and added a cat, too.)

Yep, I used to post as blue until another one showed up. I made the new screen name plural because it sounded more like a music reference, and less snotty than "I was here first - original blue."

p2, the second one (cellula) is pretty.

speaking of mixing it up, i've actually been debating getting this http://ww2.westelm.com/cat/pippopup.cfm?gids=w212&pg=2&type=ocolors as a stopgap measure except i fear it will less like flirtatiously mixing it up and more like being poor and out of ideas.

i am planning to visit trans-luxe this weekend, maybe that will be inspiring.

jmarieb - I got the bed at Z Gallierie
http://www.zgallerie.com/
It doesn't look like they have it on the website anymore, though.

Wende - yeah, the eiffel tower HAD to go, when I saw it in at least one of the "smallest coolest" entries. See, here it's not that common, as we don't have an Ikea (and it's several years old) but once I see it elsewhere, I'm over it.


Thanks for the compliments - it is amazing what placement will do to a room!

now to look at these lamps for Rasil, lest I come across as a one note charlie. ;)

Hey thanks P2, Tat, Anna, and Jonat.. oops I mean en garde Jonathan!

Tat, I have spent many hours googling and checking out my known and new to me (from magazine ads and Christy's modern links) lighting sites to find what I want and very few have the kind of lighting that is shown on the idl-lighting site which is the kind of lighting I like. So thanks for that but you seem to think that I should know about other sources not yet mentioned. Are they really that well known? Lightolier I know from track lighting and was suprised to see some pendants but I have never heard of Visa before. Can you suggest any more sites similar to idl-lighting please?

I have found some very promising pendants from all of the links sent so far so thanks again. Much appreciated.

BTW p2, I'm glad you liked that line.

And thanks gekko. Been a bit busy and then went on vacation.

hi rachel,
can you give info on the paint color you used for your bedroom? thanks!

Original Blues, are you the blue who did the engineered wood flooring in their rental?

krista - unfortunately, I can't - it came with the house when we bought it and I haven't painted over it yet - I will look this weekend and see if there's a can of the leftovers in the garage though -

Jonathan, I saw your post. I responded.

Jennifer, Vince mentioned the products used for the incredibly creative room divider. I provided links to the products:
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/032806/small-cool-2006-entries/50-vinces-high-tech-hideout-007462

rasil--
I missed the point of this being an actual "assignment," so sorry if I came off flip! But it really was kinda fun, though, thinking totally ficticiously, matching a lamp to a painting, especially one so rich with inspiration (for matching or counterpointing).

Now that I'm up to speed on the *actual* issue at hand, lemme think some more. But I'm thinking "genie in a bottle, baby" kinds of curvaceous glass lamp forms.

In the meantime, perhaps check out lapmsplus.com.
Or Anthropologie.

Make that "lampsplus.com"

I was at 2nd Avenue and 11th Street (?) Urban Outfitters the other day and saw some black lamp shades and some black faceted vases. It was kind of like they were chanelling that crystal chandelier that I saw at the AD Home Show (was it Swarovksi?). Anyway, they were in the basement floor all the way toward the back.

*jamie p,
sorry, I forgot you're not a pro; understandable mistake, considering your contributions here.

Specifying lighting fixtures is integral part of my job (contract interior designer), and I've a 7-shelves bookcase in resource library at work filled with lighting catalogs.

Go to Lightolier site, they often have internet sales so you don't have to act thru your electrician or a lighting contractor to buy "for the trade". Also, look at this site; go to "xenon". I know, these guys are bulb manufacturers but look at the application picture they have-isn't it the look you wanted? If you have an electritian willing to display some creativity with housing, it might work.

jamie pup: Sorry for my late arrival to the JP pendant light dilemna party... My cousin has a showroom here in L.A. called "plug" that carries several high-end European line similar to idl-lighting site. Their business is primarily to the trade, but the website might prove to be a good starting point for you. You should check out some of the options from German manufacturer Anta for your particular needs. Also, the showroom has the US's largest selection of Elle Decor Award-winner Alison Berger's handblown crystal pieces. (Apologies to all for the shameless plug--pun intended.) http://www.pluglighting.com/

*jamie p,
here's another manufacturer for your browsing ( scroll thru pendants), then click on reps and find the one that will sell to your electrician

jamie pup -

yes, I did the engineered wood in my rental. I'm really pleased with the way it turned out. I'm hoping to get the main space of this apartment into shape over the next few weeks, and then I can post some truly horrifying befores and some very liveable afters.

And thanks for introducing me to Family Handyman magazine. (that was you, right?) All kinds of great how-to advice (if a little Home Depotish in final execution! - all you people complaining about Ikea should consider the alternative most people have for inexpensive buy-it-today, have-it-today decorating!)

Jamie Pup, more links to click

This is probably too busy on top:
http://www.arcadianlighting.com/ls-18111-c-fro.html

Chrome or Satin Nickel finish choice on this one:
Height: 13.75"
Width: 4.25"
http://www.arcadianlighting.com/lf229.html

Hard to see the details on the white one, probably too curvy:
http://www.arcadianlighting.com/lf183.html

This one I'm plugging in just because I like it's shape, and doesn't look at all like what you wanted, LOL:
http://www.derekmarshall.com/pendants/sushi/sushi%20307.htm

And, of course, it mentions the types of lighting it's good for...which is what you need to know for your area as well. Task lighting? Ambient lighting? Decorative lighting?

See all colors and those mentions here:
http://www.derekmarshall.com/pendants/sushi/sushi%20thumbnails.htm

Don't forget the purpose of lighting, your own needs are lost as the endless parade of lights appeal to your decorative tastes. You need to know HOW MUCH LIGHT YOU NEED for that area.

Save your fingertips from chiffonading dill accidents by having lighting that is bright enough.

Or, stop attracting jets trying to land your kitchen by choosing lights that aren't so bright.

What's the max wattage for each light? What kind of light is used? What kind of base is used?

And, uh, can you actually get that kind of light bulb in your area? Can that type be put on a dimmer (I love dimmers). What about replacement parts?

I had a perfectly good floor lamp that needed one stupid little metal thing-a-ma-jig for one of the ends of the halogen light area. Hours online and in stores, staring at parts, and having no idea what it was called, who made the parts, who made the lamp.

That might not be important if you can afford to replace a lamp with a bad part. But you're needing more than one, and if one lamp has a problem, and has been since discontinued, you have to replace them all. Because you can't find a part that probably cost 1/4 of a cent to make. ARG!

http://sanfrancisco.apartmenttherapy.com/

has anyone checked out this new webpage yet? it seems to be working.. but only occasionally? perhaps it's still in the testing phase.

*makes little squeaking noises of delight*

If SF and Chicago are being handled like Kitchen, they're building up a stack of posts so that there's worthwhile content already in place on the launch date.

*goes off to read the posts anyway*

(and definitely testing and debugging, as there seem to be a number of glitches -- but I'm going to go read it anyway)

In the ongoing drama over my off white walls, I decided to abandon efforts to wallpaper with fabric or construct fabric panels, which all of you were so kind to give suggestions on. I decided to ask my landlord if he'd consider letting me paint. I stuck a cute little note in with my rent check, so I'm hoping he bites...keep your fingers crossed!

If not--back to the drawing board!

Rasil:
How many harems are there in New York anyway?
Why can't they find their own lighting?
http://www.decorating-etc.com/Source/Quoizel/Table-Lamps/Light_Spec_QUO-QJ6221WB.htm

Wow! Thank you everyone for all those links. Good plug Enrique. I appreciate and am actually blowm away by all the effort that ppl put into this. These links have been great and very helpful.

Thanks Tat for the complement and the additional links. I did think that maybe you thought I was in the business but then thought better of it :)

Thanks for the response original blues. You have answered what was going to be my next question if you were the blue I was thinking of with your comment about posting pictures.

Finally Andree, apologies if you have been posting for a while but what a great set of first posts in this thread and the previous one! Hope you stick around.

Sorry Anna, I missed typing your name specifically but I like that light also.
Decisions, decisions...

JP, I've been over at the BHG (Better Homes and Gardens) site for ages and recently came to this site via the DWR newsletter/website.

I like all kinds of styles. Which includes modern/contemporary, but there aren't a lot of those fans over at BHG. In addition, I AM in an apartment, and BHG focuses on regular homes for the most part.

I desperately needed a place to fulfill my modern/contemporary/apartment needs. Looks like this is the place.

I never introduce myself, because it wastes time. LOL! If I think I have something to offer, I plug it in.

Seems I can't win all the time. If I plug in lots of IKEA, I'd get comments about it's (low) price. And if I'd plug in something else, I'd get comments about the high price. Hey, they were the ones asking for a unique table that seats 12.

I don't know what people can afford. I can't afford much of anything, so that's where I start. With my budget, for everyone else.

An artist's canvas from a thrift store painted over with OOPS/mis-mix paints that cost a dollar a quart and you have insta-modern art. Or you can get something similar by paying thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars for some original painting by some famous person. Either way, it's the same to me.

I like the easiest, simplest, least expensive solutions, and folks can always pay more for the items I'm suggesting by changing sites, materials, etc.

Poor Maxwell and others there have been bombarded with emails from me. I don't know what you folks here have and haven't seen yet. I'm seeing a lot of things here via links I hadn't seen before.

And if it was previously discussed in detail, Maxwell and Co. can hit the delete button. If not, folks can have a new link or idea. Works for me.

Andree

The curious can find the full experiment of RFJason on Encyclopedia Dramatica, at the RFJason CL Experiment.