apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

So Tat was very nice and sent me a long and thoughtful email after seeing the renovation pictures. Basically the attempt at eclecticism flopped and she says I have a mish mash of ideas that are incoherent and the whole effort is a GODAMNED DISASTER. But we are pretty much done with the work now so there is no saving us. What a nightmare.

My copy of Apartment Therapy was waiting for me when I got home on Monday and I've started reading it. Can't wait for the Cure (is that what it's called?) to start--I'm so there!

Cure starts today! Been trying to figure out how to work the posts, but think we've got a start at least...

Did I say it is a goddamned disaster? I doubt it...if only because I know what real disaster is.

You're doing it again, J: concentrating on a Chinese stools. How do you want your foyer to look? Does existing architecture important? or the focal point is your Ikea shoe cabinets? Or the floors? Do you want to lead your visitors to the parlor asap - or make them comfortable seating on the bench and waiting for your butler to announce them first?

Maxwell,
Yay! I may finally get my digital camera--that I've been researching since time began--in time for this.

Been busy past few days. Did we see Jonathan's reno photos? If so, where?

jonathan (and how did this thread become all about jonathan?) - I found the perfect stool for fetishistic, narcissistic you: it's cut with your own silhouette. In theory, you could be sitting on your own face.

http://www.turnyourhead.com/

"Space and proportion are keys to the [eclectic] look - it's possible to do it in a small space and avoid a cluttered feel, but better with a bit more room and a fairly minimalist back-drop, so your treasures can truly shine."

http://www.findaproperty.com/story.aspx?storyid=4245

"You can't just throw a bunch of different things together without a thought or a plan and expect it to look good."

http://designerspeak.com/eclectic-design.html

Pixie, what are you getting? This may be what gets me to buy one.

Anne in Dallas, that's hilarious! I'd buy it on the spot, if it wasn't only 9" high!

Jean,
Here's a few I was thinking of:
-Canon Powershot SD550 7.1MP Digital Elph Camera with 3x Optical Zoom
-HP Photosmart R717 6.2MP Digital Camera with 3x Optical Zoom

I had just about decided on this one, but now I'm thinking it's too big and clunky (the price is right though - just over $200 on Amazon):
-Canon Powershot A610 5MP Digital Camera with 4x Optical Zoom
This last one was one of the top rated cameras (in the under $300 category, I think) in a review in the NYT during the holidays. But, alas, I waited too long and now my thoughts are drifting to a smaller camera. Sigh. I'm afflicted with a great deal of pre-buyer's remorse - as in, if I buy it, I'll be sorry. Because I spend so much time thinking about it, I'm actually never sorry once I get it; but much time can pass before I make the decision, which is counter-productive.

anne, tfo/id--
re: "(and how did this thread become all about jonathan?)"

Yes, the eternal (or at least daily) question.

Re: digital cameras. I have had my Olympus for a few years now, one of their "Stylus" models. I really like it. It takes great photos and is compact. Of course, I think mine was about 4 megapixels--which was advanced at the time! Now, they're higher quality and the bodies are even smaller.

I have to pop in here about the cameras:

I would (personally) recommend an olympus stylus over the canon elph - when I manageed a camera shop, we had more complaints about the elph than any other digital in that range - and when people returned them, they got teh olympus and LOVED it.

Rachel and Christine--Thanks for the Olympus info. There seem to be a number of Olympus Stylus digital models:
http://tinyurl.com/zl35t

how do i upload a "flickr" link so you can see this sh*thole?

Just paste the url here but before you do, and I'm sure you know this already, make sure your flickr account name is not recognizable as your real name because it will show.

here's the first batch. i'll give the update in a week.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31415264@N00/sets/72057594098729435/

Pixie, mine's old, so it's no longer for sale! I'd say I've had it about 3 years now. No problems (knock on wood). I use it a lot for work, too, so it gets use.

Boo hoo!

Boo hoo meant for the gentleman, of course.

Don't know if this is known, but I was chatting with a sales rep w/ DWR about a couch this morning and he let me know that come Friday, the company is having a 10% off all merch sale. (Sorry if this is the wrong place for this--I haven't posted here before.)

Jonathan: The child - absolutely beautiful - and the chandelier - elgant - redeem you for all sins - for now :) The clock is ticking, however.

Looks like a lot of work. Messy, looking forward to the finsihed product.

To all: I asked about Jonathan's reno because I'm truly interested, but not in Jonathan as a topic unto himself. One can simply change the subject, you know.

Jonathan: Loved looking at your renovation photos. Can you tell us a little about the tile you used, especially in the kitchen and bathroom?

Jonathan,

The pics are great, but your comments are better! You made me laugh out loud with "Mirror too wide, scones too high. We suck."

And where did you get the delicious chandelier in the baby's room?

Thank you regarding the child...frankly he is of dubious paternity, particularly given my suspicions regarding the contractor and my wife. The bathroom tile is a thick jade marble 1x1 from Italy, which we had sent over through Complete Tile in SOHO. They have great products but the attitude from the saleswoman there was so outrageous i threw a temper tantrum and i won't use them again. The downstairs bathroom which is the sand marble is mongolian, which i sourced through a distributor in brooklyn..i sort of liked the clay color to thw marble. I had the floors and walls done in 12x12 but a single wall in 1x1 mosaic. It gives the appearance of texture and complexity but actually its from the same quarry so the color feels even. the backsplash is a treated italian glass film over marble and it has a slight iridescence to it. next week's pictures will try to get a close up. i wanted a non-porous backsplash because i cook almost every night and generate a lot of splatter

The baby and his room are splendid!

I have a living room and a dining room that need new ceiling fixtures. My problem is that this place used to have gas lighting and the gas pipes are still there and hang down about 4.5 inches. There is still some gas in the system so I can't touch them. What I'm looking for is some kind of medallian with a empty underbelly that will house these pipes.

I looked at 10 million ceiling medallians online and have come up empty. Any thoughts? I have half a mind to try to make a plaster mold myself.

Why is there gas still in those pipes after 100 years or so? That's VERY strange.

But I'd think that a decent plumber with a pipe cutting tool could cut those pipes down a little short for you, so they're at LEAST not so long! But it's a special kind of plumber that deals with gas that you'd need. If you think there's gas in there, I'd call my local power company and ask them about it -- maybe THEY could send someone?

MissyElliot, just a thought: what if you take 2 half-round faux plaster wall sconces (like #L-506, for instance, in outwater catalog @my name), glue it back-to-back and use as a medallion? If the diameter is too small for you, you can use it as center detail in bigger made-to-purpose medallion (like #R-51 in same catalog) - just drill an opening for it in the center of bigger medallion.

I am not sure it's workable-you should ask your contractor if he can install itinto existing ceiling.

I posted this yesterday but it was in the midst of a heated socio-economic discussion, so I don't think I got any replies...

I'm really interested in the baseline bed from CB2. Even sent a Chicago friend to check it out in the store, but she found that they don't have it on display. She mentioned that the other beds seem sturdy, so the only unknown for me is whether the frame has sharp corners which one might cut ones shins/ankles on. If anyone out there has experience with this bed, I would love to hear about it!

I'm also considering the bisect dresser from CB2... any comments on that welcome as well...

thanks!

jmarieb--
If you're interested in any more info about this specific reno, you can click on
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/031006/post-your-baby/post-your-baby-jonathans-townhouse-reno-007016
where it has been posted before.
Or check out any of the numerous recent Open Threads, where we hear about virtually every detail, decsion and defeat of this apparently herculean, never-before-documented type of renovation.

But, as far as "one can simply change the subject"...

Um, yeah... you'd THINK.

I vote for a spin-off blog. Way, WAY off.

Don't know why there is gas still in the system, but I do know it's a problem throughout the building (apartment bldg). Apparently, every 5 years or so someone fiddles with one of these gas pipes and they leak. It's a slow leak and nobody notices for a day and then night falls, everyone gets a killer headache, smells gas, panics, etc.

The other problem is that they've all been capped off at the very end of the pipe making it hard to shorten. Thus, co-op likes them to remained untouched. It's weird indeed and a giant pain.

Thanks, Tat, for that idea. Maybe something like that would work.

Missy, methinks you should not fiddle with a gas pipe. Pay an expert to deal with this. People get killed every year from home gas-related accidents.

P2, I think you are very tense and have a lot of anger. I suggest that you seek "release" either from an extended vacation or through the judicious use of mayonnaise and any number of spherical objects.

Deborah--
I wish I had specific experience or details on that bed or dresser... would LOVE to talk about that for awhile!

Maybe Janel or Kathryn in Chicago could do a scouting trip?!

While I doubt this reputable retailer would market a "cruel shoes" type of product, my instinct, though, is that if you *think* you are going to bash the shins, you likely are. OR, live in fear of bashing your shins or slicing your ankles. Which is bad ju-ju, feng shui-wise, in a room dedicated to rest.

P2 and Deborah:
I'd be happy to do a CB2 run this week on the bed and dresser. Any excuse for a shopping trip...

Deborah - any specific questions on either piece? (aside from the ankle-bashing)

MissyElliot -
Now you just really, really have me curious about this gas-pipe thing. And I don't know much, but I AM sure that there is an attractive way to deal with it. If you want to post a link to the picture, I'd love to help you think about it. I'm just having trouble picturing it exactly at the moment.

Now you got me interested, too, MissyElliot- but more about the stingy bastards in your coop that prefer to get their members suffering from migraines than pay to a proper licensed contractor (plumber) to get rid of the problem once and for all.
I can tell you one thing for sure-no matter where existing pipe is capped, it is perfectly possibleto remove it and cap the joint at the riser where it is branching off. I've seen it done with my own eyes, when a plumber who was redoing my heating system in 1903' Brooklyn townhouse, checked for gas and cut existing gas pipes from 100 yrs ago. Curtis is right-the coop should have called the gas delivery company in your area first, to make sure they cut the gas supply there.

Seriously, I'm not a plumbing person or anything, I just know that headaches are not going to be your biggest headache -- actual fire will be. Because even if everyone that the board brings into the building is a non-smoker, at some point, somebody's babysitter or housesitter is going to light a cigarette on the wrong day and it's not gonna be pretty.

Anyway... that said... just in case you're still stuck with the protrusions, I'd still like to have a look, so I can try to wrap my mind around some possible aesthetically tolerable solution in the meantime that would still allow for access in case a permanent solution were eventually possible.

Janel - thank you so much! my Chicago friend established that the baseline bed at CB2 is not on display, so I guess there is no way to see it prior to ordering. I think the "city block" bed is the next most similar, so if you wouldn't mind checking whether the corners seem sharp, that would be great! The reason I'm so sold on the "baseline" bed is that we need a king (no, really, we NEED one) and that's the only frame we've found which has the same dimensions as a king mattress - all the rest are too large for the room.

As far as the "bisect" dresser, I'm looking at the 4-drawer model that's 29" wide. Would love to get a general impression of its sturdiness and the ease of the drawer slides. I've bought from C&B before, but never CB2 (though I assume the level of quality is the same!).

Thanks so much again!

Jonathan, please leave us alone and don't come back. You are more tediously boring than you could possibly imagine.

Jonathan, have you checked out brownstoner.com?

I'm at work, but I'll see if I can get a pic later. They literally are pipes just come down. In every room of the house. I have some covered with fixtures with large "bowls" so you can't see them. Very 1972.

In my co-ops defense, it is a large building with large apartments and these pipes are in the ceiling of nearly every room. Maybe 500 of 'em total. The gas is supposed to be out but some "remains in the line" if that is possible. Who knows. All I know is that I need to work around the problem rather than try to solve the problem. Life in a co-op!

BTW, I love Jonathan, he cracks me up... not trying to get rid of him, just passing along info.

Whenever people do laundry in our (pre-war) building, laundry water appears in our second floor apartment kitchen sink, sometimes with lint but always with blue tinge. Time to call 311?

And yes, fire/explosion is the where the panic is. Once someone smells the gas, it's a race against the clock to locate and alert everyone before they light up, quite literally. I haven't lived in the building when it's happened, but have heard the tales. Thus the word from on high: thou shalt not don't fiddle with the gas pipes!

anyone who signs their name "#$*@%&!" has an opinion I care as much about as the occasional fecal matter that gets stuck in the heel of my gucci loafers. so do me a favor and get avian flu, would you?

Sarajane: you need to be ALL OVER this. If you are getting backup in your sink from the laundry line, that is 100% unsanitary. Does this mean you are washing your vegetables in someone's underwear water??? Think about that! You are rinsing off your Wusthoff knives in the same water that cleaned a fat woman's thong!!! Get your super on this right away - realize the same lines that feed sinks are more often than not the same lines that feed the SHOWER so you could be bathing in urine and sweat water.

I am feeling upset just thinking about this. Feeling dirty. Feeling dirty.

Well, I don't wash dishes in the sink. I wash them in a dishpan. And I don't think that the water from the TAP has bubbles. The bubbles come up through the drain (and pile up in the sink, then melt and run down the cabinets onto the floor, which is creating a big problem for the cheap laminate cabinets.)

But I still think this sounds like a code violation of some kind...

oops sorry for that double posting. I need to focus on my work work ... too many random windows open on my desktop!

Jesus Christ, enough already. Jonathan, your decision to dominate nearly every open thread is getting very tiresome. Yes, many of us share your enthusiasm (and frustration) with your reno process. And you are a clever (though verging on snarky) poster. But you can you give it a rest already? Your disguised-as-humor attacks and back-handed compliments are getting harder to take. Yes, I try to ignore; and yes, I try to scroll past your comments (and responses to them)... Maybe you can set up your own blog; and blog to your heart's content about... whatever. Maybe Maxwell could set up a regular Jonathan thread (so that the rest of us non-Jonathan-fans won't have to weed through the open threads). Or maybe you could just exercise a little restraint.

Regardless, the tone of open threads has changed dramatically since you've started posting. The generally good-natured spirit of soliciting and offering up advice has turned into a pissing match and an unsettling game of one-upsmanship.

Sarajane -- If you're in NYC, I'll put my money on its being a violation of building code Title 27, subchapter 16, article 2(o):

"Liquid-seal traps required.-Each fixture directly connected to the drainage system shall be equipped with a liquid-seal trap, except as otherwise provided in this subchapter. The drainage system shall be designed to provide adequate air circulation in all pipes with no danger of siphonage, aspiration, or forcing of trap seals under conditions of ordinary use."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/reference/code_internet.shtml

I find Jonathan's posts entertaining, but I have to admit that I'd love to see him unleash his wrath on the Brownstoner crowd.

While I enjoy the actual posts on Brownstoner.com, I had to stop reading it because of all the yuppie angst and competitiveness. Things like, "You are just saying that because you're jealous that I can afford a $5M brownstone and yours is only $2.1. Your kid probably goes to public school and will die homeless in a gutter!" (Okay, I'm exaggerating a little--but not by much!)

The only site worse is urbanbaby, which is practically a Dynasty-worthy catfight every day.

In case, I wasn't clear, those are reader comments on the site--not brownstoner.com's comments!

Fiona, I stopped reading brownstoner when it became clear I'm putting my house on a market (and am not going to continue my renovation)-but I see that I missed a lot!

Better than reality TV; no make-up whatsoever.

"yuppie angst and competitiveness."
Sounds like we have a match.

But I agree wholeheartedly with Enrique about how the overall tone of Open Threads has been totally dragged down. And the one-note crude and witless humor has been lost on me since day one. To each his/her own, I suppose, but I'm starting to completely lose interest in the Open Threads any more.

I also don't entirely understand how a community that is usually pretty verbal about conspicuous consumption has ANY tolerance for the spoiled rants of a rich brat as he bemoans which faaabulous thing to put in which faaabulous area of his townhome.

And I am so sad he has a child.

Isn't it the Jonathan-ness that is so objectionable
on Brownstoner?
i.e. the tedium of the bitchiness and angst

I more or less stopped reading it after I stopped looking for
construction resources, and there was no fun reno to enjoy.

MissyElliot,
I am having a hard time visualizing too, but do you think you could make a box instead of a medallion? Perhaps made with moulding or trim so it looks more structural? It might look cool. I'm not miss handyperson, though, so that's the best I can do!

To Janel: How nice of you to offer to visit CB2! Thanks. Would you mind checking an item at CB2 for me too, please? I am interested in their peekaboo(lucite) nesting tables. I want to compare their set to this one from Plexicraft (please scroll down to item 11A).

http://www.plexi-craft.com/occasionaltables.htm

These are my questions: Does the floor model have any visible scratches? What is the thickness of the lucite? Are they pretty sturdy or do they seem rickety to you?

Thanks again!

sarajane,

that's pretty gross, while technically that water is considered gray (instead of say raw sewage) i don't think it should be backing up into your apartment. i'd discuss with the building management about remedies.

is it happening for anyone else on your floor? if the washers were draining correctly it would not be coming back up to your apartment!

Wow. I find the attacks on Jonathan more distasteful than his original postings. I love his sarcasm and bitchiness. So much more palatable than the hippie love fest that this site can become at times. He shows just as much loathing for himself as he does others. Sheesh. How refreshing that someone have a little personality (even if you don't like it).

And there is enough loathing (self or otherwise) already in the world to have to put up with that shit here, too.

sarajane
Gray water backup happened in my building when a hunk of plastic got into the waste line through the exterior gutters.
go figure.
is it normal for brownstone gutters to drain into the waste line?
Anyway, plumber fished it out.

i agree with NameTK. it seems like the "regulars" are jealous that jonathan is getting too much airplay. people, you need to deal. some people think jonathan is funny, some don't. same with patrick (the other one). keep your venom to yourselves!

sarajane--sounds like a clogged main or trap...get the building to call a plumber--you're right--it shouldn't be in your sink! That's a problem!!!

Does anybody have a Sapien bookcase? The look is amazing but I'm wondering about usability. Can you store more books this way? Is it "good" for the books? Is is easy to find a book? What do you think?

In the name of all that is holy, let it go. You're obsessed. We are tired of your constant complaints and your monopolizing the threads to rant about your nemesis.

Jonathan, your child is beautiful. Those eyes!

ebrown, there is at least one thread that had some opinions about this bookcase and others like it (eg. Open Thread 78). If I remember correctly, some felt it was not "good" for books to be stored flat this way, one on top of the other. Also if you arranged the books "artfully" (ie) larger books below, smaller ones above, you can't simply plop the book back as on a shelf; you'd have to take the time to "fit" it back in the stack. But others liked the sculptural and space-saving aspects of it.

I remember because I was seriously considering it for a while.

There is more on this product in AT somewhere. If I find it, I'll pass it along.

Funny how people's perceptions differ so much. NT thinks p2 monopolizes the thread while jonathan's 15 posts are okay. p2 thinks jonathan monopolizes the thread with those 15 posts.

Things have definitely change recently, whether that is good or bad depends on your perception of the situation. I don't think the "regulars" are envious or jealous of jonathan, more likely just tired of lame attempts to be funny. And he isn't getting air time, he is taking it and taking it and taking it. I feel like jonathan thinks this is his personal comedy club stage to try out new material. Just because the basis for the joke is design or renovation oriented doesn't mean it is funny or more importantly appropriate for this setting.

I'm with P2. I've pretty much stopped reading and posting on the NYC OTs. It just doesn't have the same appeal to me now that it is dominated by one poster. The LA site is pretty Jonathan-free so I read those posts. Only thing is, not a lot of OT posting going on there.

For me, this isn't about whether you like Jonathan's posts or not. People are behaving like this is junior high, where the popular, cool "in" kids (P2) and their hangers-on (guido) think they own the playground and try to gang up on the kid who they don't like and who isn't as popular. Then if anyone defends the unpopular kid, they get attacked too. As the old-timers here who claime to be tolerant and accepting, you guys should have responded with grace and maturity to the situation. You have no basis now for criticizing anyone for rudeness or "dragging down" the discussion. You've used your influence poorly and you deserve no more respect.

unless and until you mend your ways.

wow, you people sure are reading a lot into some anonymous people's stuff on the internet. if you don't like it, why do you stay?

ebrown,

we've discussed the sapien bookcases many times before do a search. the short, they look good but maybe not the most practical if you need to pull books out often. no worries about sturdiness--unless you live with a st bernard or in an earthquake zone then be careful.

make sure to wait till april 7th for the 10% off at DWR sale to start if you get them.

The "unpopular" kid was a narcissistic trash-mouth from the beginning, frequently telling us he hates us!!!

*That* has quite a bit to do with this.

Sites where this sort of thing happens either find the sense of community disintegrates, or uber-zealous moderation (with blocking and post-deleting) takes over. Or both.

And, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm selfish, often considered materialistic, "brash and tactless" per a Hill business owner, mouthy, and I swear like the proverbial sailor.

what makes you think they are anonymous?

I agree that he did all that - but when he was asked to tone it down by Maxwell, he agreed to and he has changed his tone. Unfortunately, the popular kids have not given up their vendetta and continue to take every opportunity to attack, even when he has tried to be nice to them. They should have recognized his efforts to change and now they need to change too. Otherwise the tone will just continue to degenerate and it won't be just jonathan's fault. They are not without fault here and they should acknowledge their own bad behavior.

Whoa, new tenant, you are a bit out of control right now. You may want to step away from the computer in the heat of the moment. Or not. That's your decision.

However, after this set of posts, I guess we can all agree that the tone of the site has indeed changed. I'm hoping it's just temporary.

But casting yourself as a victim never helps a case, in my experience.

Let's consider an alternative, which I have suggested several times thus far. A real message board. Eh? Whatcha think?

Posts from folks wouldn't get lost in the shuffle. Deborah's bed questions would be easy to find, as it would have it's own thread.

Missy Elliot's medallion. Pre-Cure discussion. Sara Janes's water. Etc.

If I'm trying to help someone, it doesn't always mean I can find what they want when they want it. Sometimes I'll be looking for something else and come across THE PERFECT THING for a past post, and I have NO IDEA where I read the request!!!

An open thread has no all-over theme. And they are numbered. I HATE wasting my time looking for a past post, that's buried somewhere. I LOVE spending my time looking for things, though, I just don't want to spend hours looking for some product, only to spend additional hours looking for the post that wanted it. LOL!

And yes, we could have a renovation thread just for Jonathan. I still haven't seen the pictures, and I'm still on his ignore, LOL, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to participate anyway. I tried the flickr link and got an "oops" page.

My suggestion for the message boards would be to have just one big open board. Trying to sort into categories will leave some being posted in the "wrong" category and getting no answers. Even if someone is SPECIFICALLY from certain areas, like if someone is looking for a source in N.Y. proper, they can include that in the title of their post.

And the message boards would be for perhaps ALL the AT sites. Not having one for NY and LA and SF being separate. Everyone has ideas and sources and it doesn't matter where the idea comes from, if it's the right idea for YOU.

I realize a message board can be a big undertaking. However, it might bring considerably more people to the site. There are many read-only people that visit web sites. Being able to follow the progress on a reno and find sources for their own would be helpful.

That should also take care of some of the complaints voiced in this thread today. Read it if you like it, skip over that thread if you don't. And go on to the next thread.

Again, I vote against Prospero boards. They don't currently wrap links correctly, and they won't fix them.

because we are all relatively anonymous online, NT

and just because I didn't spend time talking with you
and I dislike the third-rate Rickles you love so
is no reason to marry me off to p2
he and I disagree on almost everything except
being appropriate

I can't believe I'm trying to lecture you online about
appropriateness
THAT is the sign of the troll taking over

I'm out of control because I'm telling people when I think they are wrong - the same people who don't hesitate to tell Jonathan what an asshole they think he is at every opportunity? If you think that's out of control, i guess we have different definitions. Or maybe you just aren't judging accurately.

And I never said I was a victim - perhaps just another misjudgment on your part.

I agree with New Tenant. And I don't see how she's casting herself as a victim. I find all the bitching about Jonathan more irritating (and more threadjacking) than anything he's ever posted... hypocritical to boot. At least he always makes a point to offer something useful and relevant to a design topic. (Sorry that my post doesn't) If you think he's a troll, ignore him.

You did spend time talking to me guido. You spent as much time talking to me as I spent talking to a dozen other people at the party. Only problem is, you could only speak one note "don't feed the troll - don't feed the troll - don't feed the troll." You were obsessed with this troll thing from the beginning. But the fact is Jonathan isn't a troll. I wish you were in a position to lecture about appropriateness. unfortunately you've lost your high ground here. I've seen the viciousness of some of your posts (like wishing another poster would commit suicide, etc.). sorry - that's not appropriate to me, no matter what that poster has said.

Fongcy - thank you. I'm so glad someone else (even if it's one other person) can see what I'm trying to say.

let's be clear
I only wish that jonathan commit the suicide(s) that he keeps detailing. because ha ha ha it's so bloody funny.
I stand by that.
cause I'm so punk rock

when is sofa delivery day anyway?

New Tenant. Thanks for the laugh. Popular kids vs. Unpopular Kids? Vendettas? It ain't that serious, but it is annoying... And your high school analogy holds some validity.

Now to counter your point specifically, I have just as much right to criticize anyone's lapses in decorum as they have to commit them. You know what they say: opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. And, yes, I include myself in that assessment.

I find it ironic that you've taken it upon yourself to talk down to and lecture us while, in the same breath, going on about tolerance, grace, maturity and leading by example. Seems to me that you are rhetorically standing on similarly shaky ground as the rest of us. Then again, we all have assholes.

don't try to disarm me, dagnabit!

sofa's coming on Saturday.

and no one better slam me for talking about my daggoned sofa again, because I was responding to a question. I did NOT bring it up.

Thank you Deepa and Minh.

Enrique
I don't expect you to agree with me, because you've been pretty outspoken in your feelings about Jonathan.

But if I've behaved badly in some way, then I apologize. I have tried to stand up for someone who I felt was being attacked and ganged up on by a majority of people. I think that my approach to Jonathan has been proved correct. maybe that sounds as though I'm talking down, but if people would just stop and think about it, they would see that he became a lot nicer when he felt some people were on his side. He also became a lot nicer because Maxwell talked to him - and he say that J had a "good heart." When someone with a good heart (who may be somewhat clumsy) realizes that you see good in them - that goodness will come out. Maybe that sounds cheesy, but i think it's true. But as long as people keep attacking him instead of expecting him to be good, nothing will get better. Yes, I'm frustrated, because I think these people are capable of being better than they are.

o dear
I too am misunderstood
I was refering to J's sofa day, not yours
(although I hope you enjoy your new furniture)
since it was the shame of it all that was leading to his
being gone from this virtual mortal coil

hi enrique!

wow, i'm out sick for two days and the OT is OOC! just to bring it back to me (and not jonathan), i have a random nyc question. i decided to go to columbia in the fall for grad school- if i want to live in brooklyn, what's the best area in terms of non-hellish commuting? guido, you gave me your email address once for a similarly related question, but i misplaced it (if it's okay for me to bug you about this kind of stuff, please re send it? to alison at curbed dot com). thanks so much!

hey ali!
I'm at guidoo at mac ....

I hate to say it, Brooklyn booster that I am
but for Columbia you might want to live uptown,
Inwood or Washington Heights

How long are you here for? I have a friend in Inwood leaving for grad school out of state for a year . . .

I agree with guido (okay okay don't faint). I went to Columbia undergrad and Brooklyn would be a pretty long commute. Have you considered something uptown?

My only issue is this: Every other open thread for the last couple of months has been a couple of people posting about their specific issue over and over again (like the first post today). I realize some projects are big projects, but sometimes you need to sit back and let someone else have a turn.

And I guess my only other issue is this: if someone tells you you can post your pics on flickr and then you come back and say, "how do I do that?" (arghhhh, look it up) and then someone does tell you how to do it, and then the next day you ask again...ARGHHH. This is when I start cutting myself like all the teenage girls do.

Yes, a new format might be a good idea.

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

- Buckminster Fuller

Thank you guido
I will enjoy my new furniture - if only to avoid the contempt of the "why can't you people just enjoy your new furniture?" contingent.

oh, thanks for the quick insight (and guido, i'll email you in a sec). i was planning on going to pratt so i've been dreaming of brooklyn, but columbia's offer of more money really won me over... i have a friend who lived in inwood and it seemed so isolated, but i'll be visiting next week, so i plan on checking out different neighborhoods (i'm from new york, but i used to live in the east village, so i never really ventured above 14th st!). i swear i'll start asking decorating questions asap.

I think it is primarily the fake, forced self-loathing and drama that is getting pretty old. It is a schtick and nothing else. I find it to be boring.

The sad part is that the schtick is so polar opposite of the approach to design and better living that seems to be the basis for this site.

You're at Curbed and you're asking about NY neighborhoods? Maybe it's a different Curbed?

click on my name, it's the san francisco curbed.

Ali-
I think it honestly depends on what school you are in. If you are in the Arch or J-school or Med school, you might want to live closer. If you are in a one-year program, I might live close to CU. But if you are in a multi-year program and your coursework is sort of self-directed you could do the one-hour commute and just use the time to read on the train. I think it depends on how you like to work and how willing you are to take the occasional cab.

And, whatever you can do to apply for CU housing - do it. The law and B-school students get prime housing, but they attempt to be equitable with the other schools.

ah yes. i forget other cities exist sometimes.

NT: I think we're all frustrated with the tedious back-and-forth. And I think it's admirable and actually quite sweet that you've come to Jonathan's defense on numerous occasions. Though I'm not a fan of his (mostly because of MY perceived notions of his lack of decorum--yeah, I know, my problem) and have been vocal about it at first, I think you'll find that I've intentionally stayed out of the Open Threads and have not directed any comments his way in several weeks. I've chosen to ignore him--that is, until today when a few of his comments rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously, a lapse in good judgement on my part. So, I'll fess up to some of the culpability for today. Apologies for exacerbating the situation.

fongcy- understandable, but sf is awesome.

desk- i didn't even think about student housing (i forgot there's more than undergrad dorms, shudder). i'm sure i'll find out more about this, hopefully, at the open house next week. and, i'll be in the two year urban planning program which is in the architecture school.

Deepa:

I've added the lucite tables to my list!
I'll try and stop at CB2 tomorrow...

Ali, to Columbia you take the 2/3 express but it would be a full 50 minutes from even Brooklyn Heights. my sister commutes from the heights to columbia and loves it...but i hate the thought of her on the train at night. dude you may just want to go west hell's kitchen or upper west in the '90's. That's an extra hour and a half a day on the subway, at least. It adds up.

Andree, I pulled the pictures because the combination of P2's anger adjacent to an explicit reference to my son felt...creepy...and made me feel wierdly unsafe. Frankly, I think P2 desires me physically. I don't mind that - i'm used to it, really - but lust can be a powerful motivator for aberrant behavior. And that is what I think is going on here.

New Tenant, I appreciate that your relationship with Jonathan seems to be one that you both enjoy - bantering, sarcasm, and black humour. But I'm not sure that he really needs your spirited defenses. (Though he's made it pretty clear that he enjoys them...perhaps a little TOO much...)

Jonathan seems very capable of taking care of himself. He's pretty quick with sharp words, and has a Park Slope brownstone with an expensive reno. And plasma, to boot. While it's possible that he was an unpopular kid in high school, it sure doesn't look like he's suffering much now. (And anyway, wasn't everybody unpopular in high school? I've yet to meet an adult who will admit to having been popular in high school.)

Of course, Jonathan suffers in an existential fashion, but that looks like it's just a character trait.

Right, back to the topics that AT should do best. Too late for this thread, but in case anyone has opinions for tomorrow -

How are we all feeling about stainless steel these days? I've noticed a fair bit of carping recently (as in, "I'm so over stainless steel"). There's a new print ad (at least here in the Great White North) for vintage-look stoves with the copy, "Because stainless steel belongs in the cutlery drawer." Are we all going to have to save up for Aga cookers now?

Those of you tired of SS: what are your picks?

ali,
it really does depend on whether you'll be at 116th or at 168th (the medical campus). I know that plenty of people live on the nearer L stops (Williamsburg and Bushwick) and commute to 116th, but I only know one brooklynite who works at 168th--and he has an hour and fifteen minute commute.
if you're looking for cheap and you'll be at 116th, you should check out Astoria (Queens). There's a fairly quick and direct bus from 116th to Astoria (and then LGA) and I've met several people who commute this way.

also, as someone who works at 168th and used to live in washington heights, I can tell you that it IS really far away from just about everything. the apartments are bigger and rent is cheaper, but you pay the price in late night interminable subway rides on the weekends...

I love the idea of a New Yorkers' fieldtrip to LA! I bet it's sunny there, aquarabbit found a cool white sofa for sale on craigslist that won't fit in her house, and JenPDX has an intriguing phone line fix it problem....

I put the link to the LA open threads page in the url box - just click on my name (or click your ruby red slippers three times and murmur, "there's no place like AT, there's no place like AT...")

sarahw -- The entire state of California is under endless rain, but we'd still love to have y'all start in LA and do a road trip up to SF. (But don't take the Pacific Coast Highway -- it's partly washed out.)

I swear -- I checked the weather in LA because I was feeling so desperate that I was tempted to find a cheap plane ticket and go anywhere sunny within a two-hour flight -- and it's 50 and wet there too. Bleh.

Ali -

I assume you will need studio time, so be close to Columbia. The Brooklyn commute might work for someone who is doing a lit or english program or a PhD.

Sign up for housing options today - even if you think you might not need them. Preference is given on 1) distance from NYC basis (use a Cali address -- I didn't think to do this and should have) and 2) how early you get on the list and 3) how many slots are given to the school. The law and b-school get a lot, J-school and social work not so much. I don't know where arch is on the totem pole.

Some of the Columbia housing is miserable, but most of it for grad students tend to be recently converted apartment buildings that are not that bad -- at least that's what I noticed. I mean, it's not gorgeous but you can not complain about the price (which in many ways is just extra financial aid). None of my friends ever had problems.

Columbia also runs an internal craigslist of sorts (seach for OCHA) where they host listings for neighboring property managers and people looking for roommates, and such. You have to have a CU ID to get it to work, but it's worth checking out.

Original Blue: you struck on something. I have been nursing the notion that stainless steel has jumped the shark, so to speak, and i think we are actually going to witness a 60's-ish revival of enameled metals and Danish-era wood paneling.

This will interest you: i was visiting a company last year that designs consumer products (toasters, blenders, etc) and the designer was joking how it actually costs more to color metal but that if you leave the metal "bare" you can nonetheless charge twice as much because the yuppies associate quality with brushed metal over colored appliances.

re: "I'm so over stainless steel"

I think that's a hemline issue.
You know,
"everybody run out for midis! minis are out! "

Then your older sister falls all over her suede platform heels to swipe money from your mom's purse and get to the mall.

But I'd LOVE an Aga cooker, now!

It'd be replacing a 1909 Magic Chef, so I'm not trendy.

desk, you are awesome. thank you!

J-

I very much enjoyed those pix while they were up. Please reconsider the shot of the baby's room with that fabulous chandelier. That one's a home run.

It was probably a good idea to take the portraits down, but they were great to see as well. What an undaunted child and pretty freaking adorable. I take it he's satisfied with the accommodations.

maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm still a little confused as to why the pics were taken down.

I kind of wanted to see them--I *heart* renovation porn (and babies).

ok, I didn't actually mean to put 'porn' and 'babies' in the same sentence.

I had to look up AGA cooker in the Wikipedia.

Somebody did a great job with the "stub".

You'd better start using a pay phone jesse!

G-SUS! (that is "Jesus", for those of you that don't read deep south - advance apologies to those of you who are deeply religious) Where is the LOVE?

I have one really bad day, one whole pizza, drink one half bottle of wine (ok, two-thirds)and come to the boards for some humor. What do I find?!?

A "I-don't-Like-You-You-Get-Too-Much-Attention" or "You're-too-sarcastic-I-hate-you" fight! It is DE-sign. We're NOT solving world hunger, homelessness or AIDS, unless I missed those threads. You all are sounding like the ugly step-sister without any Cinderella.

Can we all just step away from the computer and take a deep breath?!? Good air in, Bad air out.

Now. That being said, I have to agree with some posts. If you're doing a reno, ANYONE - not just J, and you're willing to committ to a certain amount of content per month you should get your own thread. If people are interested (it just makes us renters depressed, trust me) they can go check it out instead of being subjected to the "My-Life-Sucks-I-Hate-The-Appliance-Store-People"

That will leave most of the other threads for non-reno items. There is no guarantee for appreciating other's senses of humor unless we split the boards into SARCASM and OTHER instead of NY & LA.

*stepping down from soapbox*

My wine --er...time -- here is finished. I'm going to watch a violent movie and think about Charles Taylor.

As a relatively new poster, perhaps I don't qualify to weigh in on the P(too) crowd / Jonathan debate. But, a humble opinion:

All of you are interesting and entertaining to read. Truly. And -- maybe this is naive of me -- I think it's a lot harder to nurture enmity when people can see, meet, and speak to one another rather than dash off an email.

AT holds NYC events relatively frequently. I understand Jonathan attended the last one incognito. Perhaps he slaps on a name tag next time, and actually forges a meeting of the minds with the others who object to his postings?

Because it would be sad if people simply boycotted what I think is a pretty great site.

Wende and others looking for some sun and fun - Denver was sunny and in the 70's today, with a gentle breeze. Perfect for lunching outside, and so tempting to play hookie.

Ali, one of my friends sublet a Columbia grad housing location last summer (from a law student) - and I stayed there a few times. It was at 119th and Amsterdam, and it was a really nice place. We arrived at the apartment late a few times, and I never felt unsafe - I really lvoe the Columbia area. I would try to stay closer, just because of the studio intensive time of your program - those late nights in the studio are more easily accomplished when you don't have to be afraid of heading home.

Stainless Steel - I was just talking about this on the way home today. Being in the central west, it seems like trends are just not as immediate as they are on the coasts. I like the look of stainless, but I think we're going to end up trying to get our hands on an induction cooktop and matching our appliances to the cupboards. It seems like the disappearing appliances are "in" when I've looked at Design mags...

And speaking of Design Magazines, I *still* don't have my new Dwell. *pout*

I wanted to see the reno, Jonathan. I don't really know what a brownstone IS, so the pictures might help a bit. I don't know any more about NY than I do about SF and I live in SF. I don't know neighborhoods or buildings or much of anything else. Not knowing anything never stops me from suggesting stuff, though. LOL!

You really have to rethink that entry bench/stool/chair for taking off shoes. Not all people ask others to remove their shoes. It could be a little embarrassing if you saw some of my old socks, then again, the shoes were old too. And so are the feet. Dang. Can't win.

I'd suggest that you find a source for those "peds" or whatever they are called that slip over feet/socks for your guests to wear. I mean, you want me to take off my shoes, and then you get my sweaty socks?

I don't know how old your child is, but you don't want the lad getting athlete's hands/mouth/belly.

Feet in shoes all day don't always smell like delicate spring blossoms either.

So you'd have damp, sticky, grimy, foot-fungus-infested floor entryway. that stinks.

I'd suggest nice slippers. Not designer dadgum apparel slippers. Just basic slippers or sandles that could be worn by guests.

It's a tough call. I never wear shoes in my place, for completely different reasons. And I'd prefer my guests not to wear shoes for my reasons too...the cat is determined to trip everyone and purposely puts his tail under feet.

What happens if someone goes skidding across the wood floor in dry socks? Unintentionally of course. Although if you have a long entry, you could expect me to go skidding across the floor on purpose. I'd fall down. So might others.

Hey, how about those "gripper socks" for guests? You'd only need some in the general "women's" size and in "men's" size and they'd fit most everyone. They could be washed and a supply kept next to the door. That way no one suffers the embarassment of holey socks or dirty socks, they just quickly slip on your socks.

You'd need a mini-hamper for guests to deposit their worn "gripper socks" in on the way out. You don't want the child sucking on those either. Ewwww.

Here's a good deal on men's styles:
http://www.haband.com/shop/52901?osadcampaign=trafficleader

Oh, for god's sake, don't look at anything else on that site.

Peds, for ladies, non-gripper:
http://www.joyofsocks.com/6paofpew.html

Then you'll get compliance on the no-shoes rule. Comfy chair/bench. Clean socks/slippers. Just don't stand there and hover while they take off their shoes.

NT, I apologize if I came off wrong. I was honestly trying to stop you from an angry tirade you might later regret--and I was a little taken aback by your vehemence. The popular/unpopular kids thing did strike me as a *tad* dramatic, but perhaps I'm just too old to remember that far back.

To be honest, I had missed Enrique's comments, but I also think Enrique is probably the nicest person on this site (and there's some serious competition for that title) so that probably would have colored my view even if I had seen it.

Anyone notice who hasn't chimed in on the topic at all? (And, hey, like I said, he entertains me, so no attacks here) Methinks original blues is right. I, for one, have wasted enough breath on this topic.

As for SS, I am also having the played out feeling, but have no idea what the good alternative is. Are we moving into vividly colored appliances next?

Re: All the rage.

A solution to all of this in two (2) simple steps:

1. If someone's posts make you angry, don't read that person's posts. Duh.

2. Don't drag people's children into your disputes with them. That's just tacky and rude.

I don't know what the trends are, but I sure do like the Elmira Stoveworks colorful selection:
http://www.elmirastoveworks.com/

And it's not loading that page right for me, so try out this one:
http://www.elmirastoveworks.com/nms_Kitchen_Appliances.html

There, look. Lots of colors.

Remember, the first to follow trends is the first one out of style. LOL! Ignore trends.

The only reason I feel it's important to follow trends is to get an idea of what will be available.

Many years back I pulled pictures out of magazines that had colors or styles I liked. I kept putting them in a folder, and finally went through the folder to see what it was that I really liked, repeatedly (remembering of course, that the pictures in the magazines are also reflecting current trends).

I still like the same colors. And have added other things I like to the mix.

Trends come and go, the seasons, the things on store shelves change. I can't always get the colors I like in products for my home.

That when it's important to know what's "trendy" and what is supposed to be "the next big thing"...because they might finally have gotten around to either bringing something back in force that I've loved, or get around to creating the colors I love in textiles. In chairs. In appliances.

By the way, Jonathan, how about this chair:
http://www.wisteria.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=W544
It actually looks like a chair, unlike the stool. It's shiny. I like shiny.

Send me the pictures so I can make comments about the reno too. They might even be snippy comments, but I doubt it. I'm sure you're over-reacting about 95 percent of your daily horror and everything looks just fine.

i'm chiming in late here, but i'll echo what one person said about enrique: i'm more swayed by his comments, because he's neither snarky nor holier than thou. and he always adds something informative for those of us, like me, who aren't as talented.

i'm bummed that these open threads have gotten so negative - what used to be a great source for ideas and feedback has become an uncomfortable forum best avoided. i often feel i dare not post a comment for fear of being sarcastically berated.

NT, i don't know you from adam, but you're wrong about p2 and guido - as she herself notes, they hardly have a lovefest going on there, and are 99% of the time disagreeing. but they treat each other respectfully.

i hate to put on my pollyanna hat, but i'm simply going to believe that things will settle down; but seriously people, maxwell has spent a lot of time and energy on this site - can we all keep that in mind when posting, and take a moment to reflect that this is someone's WORK?

one last thing, NT - in response to one of my comments, which was part of a conversation that had NOTHING to do with him, j. wrote:

"surely this string ought to win the Late Night Undergrade Bullshit Posturing Award of the GODAMNED MILLENNIUM"

if you think that's "toning it down," i'm speechless. welcome your comments on this.

From what I hear, stainless steel is hard to keep clean. I like the fact that it looks like a metal and it is a metal, but going too far out of one's way to figure out which special cleaners will work sounds like sure-fire way to make something go out of style, ultimately.

But keep in mind, that styles are partly established so that manufacturers can keep selling stuff!

I love bright colors! And ya know what? If people who have lots and lots of money are always going to be renovating a kitchen before they move in anyway, then maybe THAT's the way to go! Everybody make it exactly which custom color you want! But for middle-class people, SOME version of neutral will probably need to happen, even if that's subject to the whims of fashion. Wooden fronts are about as far as I would go unless I was just completely loaded.

I kinda love my original-equipment-to-the-apartment Royal Rose stove from 1937 and my slop sink, and since they're both white, I went for a simple $400 white fridge.

New Tenant,
Not that my opinion matters on this playground, but I more or less agree with you.

But my real compliment for the day (and I only give one) goes to Andree, for a constructive suggestion.

Did anyone catch it? A message board? Maxwell? Do you weed through all these open threads?

Thank you Anna! I didn't know if anyone else was interested!

I'm adding in that I hope it will be similar format to this Open Thread. Just black text on white background. No font variation. No colored text or bold text or anything else. No animated signatures. I hate that crap. It's board clutter and adds nothing to the discussion.

I'm pretty sure I sent it in to Maxwell via email, because I've sent in just about everything else I can think of, as I run across it or remember it.

I have no clue as to what has and hasn't been posted on this site before I popped in during the contest. So I send off things I think are neat, like these modular units made of recycled paper:
http://www.planetsquared.com/products.htm

I don't have David and Im's talent for making my own coffee table out of harvested scraps. But at least I could get something similar and have it suit my needs (or have it turn into an expensive cat scratcher).

I can comment on the products from wisteria! after ordering several things from them I have nothing but junk to show for it and the antiques well they are all fake junk made in china. shame shame shame never ever will www.wisteria.com fool me again.

5000.00 down the drain and no hope of ever getting a refund