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What do people think about sisal on the floor for a kitchen?

I have a client who is an interior decorator (bigtime) and she puts sisal in every room of her houses including the kitchen. At firt, I was like, oh no, the clean up! But now, after many many many months of vacillating on what to put over the pvc tiles that are there currently, I'm warming up to the idea. At first, I thought cermic tile and GC took the deflection out of the floor by screwing a million screws into the pvc -- so can't take the vinyl out:(

I've been using a sisal runner under the kitty's toilet and have come to realize how easy it is to clean (vacuum) and I love the way it feels under my feet and once it gets too dirty it can be swapped out and it will decompose and go back to the earth.

This new thought comes after pretty much deciding on cork floating planks, but the problem is there's a galley area and then a largish eat in part and the galley's visible floor will be only 1/3 of that part and I don't want to waste $ putting cork under the cabinets.

By now my brain is not enough.

Thanks!

i need to get a curtain for my window. there's some fairly bright street light that comes in through the window and i'm pretty sensitive to light so i'd like to get something that will really block it out. i also can't decide between a roll-up (i.e., roman shade) or just a panel on a rod. any suggestions for inexpensive to moderate choices? thanks

I wanted to update everyone on my fabric softener issues. Since I posted last week and found out that in fact the sheets were causing oily stains, I switched to using a half cup of vinegar in the softener compartment in the washers. OMG I can't tell you how happy I am. The clothes come out soft. Since I don't want to deal with the static cling issue I have been drying everything on low heat (trying to conserve energy here in NYC too) and surprisingly, the clothes are taking much, much less time to dry too - I wonder if the fabric softener was coating the fibers so much it was adding weight?? Anyway...just wanted to let everyone know.

I am also interested in the sisal in the kitchen issue. I have a grooved tile floor (like fake ceramic tile with a groove around the edge, so I couldn't just lay new tile over. Am interested in how to do this.

Matilda, you don't want sisal in the kitchen unless you never, ever cook there and never drop anything.

what is sisal?

i am renovating my kitchen area as well, so this may be of some interest to me...if you don't informing the less-informed.

thanks.

Funny and slightly pathetic true story.

I $pla$hed out and bought a lovely AV console for myself - the first piece of furniture I haven't bought from a thrift store or craigslist.

After eight weeks, the console arrived yesterday. My neighbors help me unpack the crate. It's easy to assemble - just a few screws to put on the legs.

I start to transition my few pieces of AV equipment into the cabinet...and lo and behold, my (4-month old yamaha) RECEIVER is TOO FAT to fit inside the cabinet. It is 1-inch too thick. I forgot to make an allowance for the door mechanism. ARGH!!!

I've pondered the problem for the whole evening. The best solution: throw more money at the set-up. I think I will buy a new receiver (of which I can find only ONE model that will fit the cabinet!!!)

Just wanted to say hi as I've been reading the boards/site for the past couple of says while I get ideas and thoughts on redecorating the bedroom in my house I am moving into (live in a smaller room at the moment, it's a houseshare). I'm Canadian but live in London.....does anyone know of any good UK based interior decor/style blogs/websites? It's difficult because a lot of rec's are for the US / Canada. I'm so uninformed, nice to read the opinions here.

KARIN GARCIA ....

in my travels yesterday, looking at this site and flickr, i found someone's pictures from icff and some gorgeous tables from a designer named karin garcia. she did not have her own booth at the fair and i'm hoping someone knows something about her or who showed her work. anyone?

http://flickr.com/search/?q=karin+garcia

JenPDX,

If it is too wide going across-ways, then why don't you unscrew the door (if possible), totally removing it from the frame, and then put your receiver inside, and then reattach the door?

I thought I'd post this question again, as I posted it a bit late on the last OT:
My home office is always a huge mess. My sweetie has multiple computers and a huge bin full of cables and bits and I have shelves full of poorly organized art supplies. And it's supposed to be a guest room too. Since I work from home, I spend a LOT of time in this room and I'd really like it to be more orderly. One idea I have is to fill the alcove that currently has a small chest of drawers with built-in shelves so more of the storage can be tucked a bit more out of sight. Maybe a different room layout would work better though.
Here's what it looks like now:
http://dmgware.dyndns.org/~apm/images/office.jpg

Here's the floorplan:
http://dmgware.dyndns.org/~apm/images/floorplan.jpg

BK,

from sisalrugs.com:

Sisal’s textured look is a favorite of interior designers. Sisal is a natural fiber derived from the 'agave sisalana' cactus plant. Sisal grows In semi-arid regions. The largest producers of sisal are located in northeast Brazil and Africa. Sisal fibers (which can be up to three feet long) are sustainably harvested by hand from the leaves of the cactus plant. Sisal is not the same fiber as coir or jute. Sisal is stronger and more durable than other natural fibers. Sisal is therefore preferred for carpet and rugs.

sisal is used to make rope for cat and bird toys/products. You may be familiar with that. Sisal is a radical choice for kitchen floors; one that causes much controversy, as you'll see. However, Flor tiles are advertising themselves for kitchen. So?

Dropping plates on sisal results in an unbroken plate. Dropping food, a different story. Hence the quandary. I would solve this issue by placing a small area rug, perhaps sisal again under the sink area, for wetness control.

For wall to wall, prof carpet installers is the way to go.

I would just do area rugs. Like a runner in the galley portion with perhaps a cork floating floor in in the eat in area butting up to it. This sounds messy. It's a thought in progress, hence the post.

meg,
http://www.livingetc.com/

I had carpet in a kitchen once. Stupidest kitchen design ever. I don't care if it's shag or low pile or sisal or whatever, carpet is not a good floor covering for a kitchen. Small area rugs near doors or sinks are fine if you can toss them in the washer or something when they get grungy, but a large area rug/carpet seems like a very impractical choice to me. You are far more likely to drip/spill than to drop plates. I would go for a solid, cleanable kitchen floor with a smooth finish. Cork, bamboo, hardwood, tile, linoleum are all practical choices with varying costs and aesthetic benefits. Pick one of those and add a small (easily replaceable) sisal rug near the sink or counter where you stand most often.

I know it's bad, I know, know, know but now I'm obsessed with sisal in the kitchen. Anyway, what can I do about my tiles...would I have to lay a plywood subfloor because of the grooves in the existing tiles? Please help.

Matilda, you are not going to get us to enable you in making an idiotic decision, such as laying down highly absorbant sisal in a kitchen. That is just stupid. As I am beginning to suspect you are. But if you insist, you would pull up the tile, pour a thin layer of cement and lay down the sisal over it.

Matilda, I agree that sisal in the kitchen would be very tricky -- anything sticky (honey, sesame oil, etc) could be a huge pain if dribbled on floor. I understand being drawn to the look though. Perhaps you might try an intermediate step, before making the commitment of pulling up tiles and laying down sisal. Per an earlier thread, FLOR has a sisal option (http://www.interfaceflor.com/service/flor/shop_by_model.html?mv_arg=Coir_04) you might want to consider -- would allow you to change out tiles if they are irreparably dirtied.

Matilda -- The way to deal with an obsession is to have a commitment-free fling and get it out of your system. Put a sisal area rug in the kitchen. Either you'll discover that the passion is great enough to justify the rough patches, or you'll grow sick of it and move on.

Longtime lurker, first-time poster here... am trying to do a serious de-clutter and sprucing-up of my jr. 1-br. My very blah dining room table is mostly a repository of clutter. I was thinking that a high dining table (such as this http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=875&f=12169&q=havana&fromLocation=Search&DIMID=400001&SearchPage=1 from C&B) would not only take up less space, but maybe the added height would discourage me from piling stuff on it. Any opinions on trading the comfort of real chairs for barstools or other high-table thoughts in general? Thanks!

I agree, carpet of any type is just plain wrong in a wet area. That said, my grandfather ran a carpet mill, they made fine wool rugs and carpet with hand operated weaving machines. Needless to say, my grandparents' house had a lot of carpet on the floor, including one in the kitchen. that carpet was a fine wool, very, very low pile and it was removable though it was fitted perfectly to the room and bound on the edges. the carpet was in that kitchen for as long as i could remember, at least 25 years, and i'd venture to guess since the 50's till they sold it in 2000. I think it is insane, but he knew what a carpet could withstand and what it could not. but seriously, I can't believe that sisal would be good in your kitchen, especially if it's real sisal and not like a synthetic berber. ouch it hurts your bare feet too.

Krissy - a different table will not solve a clutter problem. Whether or not a high dining table is a good choice for you in terms of comfort is a different issue, but a tendency to clutter is a personality thing and a higher flat surface is just as likely to clutter as a lower one. If that's your only reason for considering the table, I'd try to work some daily de-cluttering habits into your life first and see if that makes your current dining table more useful.

I personally find any flat surface in my apartment tends to build up stuff unless I'm very vigilant. I usually let it go for a bit, then go on a mad cleanup and put everything away. I love when the surfaces are clean and wish I had the discipline to keep them that way more of the time.

OK, no sisal (Jonathan, you can go f*ck yourself - why would you call me stupid? That's not funny, it's just mean and totally uncalled for), but with any new floor will I have to lay a ply sub - I suspect my old tiles may be asbestos.

Olga,
I have sisal in my kitchen - an area rug from Crate and Barrel. I put in down about 18 months ago to cover really ugly vinyl tile and didn't really expect it to survive very long.
Contradicting Jonathan, I love to cook, cook a lot and am not too neat about it -- and the sisal has survived almost everything. I have dinner parties regularly and have had four rather large cocktail parties as well as the regular day to day cooking. I had expected it to look awful by now. The warnings about staining (from water) have not proved to be true - yet. Admittedly, I haven't dropped a can of tomatoes on it or a bottle of red wine - which I don't think it would survive. But it has been pretty resiliant and tolerates damp spot cleaning when I drop something.
It probably isn't the most hygenic of choses - can't bleach it or scrub it with a disenfectant. I do plan on it being replaced in the five year time frame max.
By the way, the area rug is set off the counters about 6 inches - which really helps as most messy stuff seems to fall in that area - which does probably help with the staining. I would not install it as a carpet.
I love the look of sisal and like you I like the feel of it underfoot. I am currently thinking of getting another rug for my living main area - but am concerned it won't survive the cat throwing up on it. Or worse, I am concerned the cat won't throw up on it but will move to the sofa or bed - ick.

Stef - here's info on how to get in touch with Karin Garcia:

Design Connection Argentine Group
BOOTH 226
Buenos Aires 1426 Argentina
+5411 47774382
cienporciento.net

Allison - I've been hoping someone would respond to your home office problem because I'm interested. My first reaction was that I can make a much huger mess than that--it didn't look that bad. Which I still think. But now that I look again, it seems as though you could do the built-in shelves thing that you have suggested, or anywhere that you've got shelves now, you've got room to go up with them.

And I know that people have been saying here that pushing everything against the walls doesn't usually work for one reason or another, so that would seem to call for a rearrangement of the furniture, but damned if I can figure it out....

matilda; Asbestos does not pose a problem until it is airborne, if it is encapsulated or covered over it should not be an issue, but be very careful about piercing them with nails should you lay your new sub over them. perhaps a floating floor would be a better option, one with an underlayment such as pergo; cork underlayment is very good, sound resistant and waterproof. I'm sure you know that it is best (i thinkn legally, you must) to consult a professional if you suspect asbestos; usually they won't remove asbestos if it is encapsulated.

Alex, if you are cooking over a sisal floor and slopping tomato sauce on it and god knows what else, you should be aware that your kitchen is probably a petrie dish of germs, bugs and pestilence. god lord it makes me want to bathe just thinking about it.

matilda, just because some nitwit comes forward and says he/she lined their kitchen floor or bathtub with sisal does not make it a good idea. yeah yeah i know, i'm an a-hole

Alison,
A good point. I should certainly try to de-clutter my table (and keep it that way) before buying any new furniture. Maybe get rid of the tablecloth, too, which only seems to visually clutter the place. But I do think that the motivation of not wanting to clutter a $1000 table set might help me (the one I have now is a hand-me-down, with mismatched chairs, that I don't even like), and I'm not sure I can find a traditional-height table with seating for 4 that takes up significantly less room than what I have now, unless I go to a higher table.

For your office, have you thought about combining all the computers into one larger, multilevel unit? I do think you need to go vertical, everything stops about 4 feet up and there is a lot of space that could be better utilized, esp. in that corner by the door.

Jessica -

Alas, the door on the cabinet is the type that recesses into the piece. So the clearance issue isn't just about squeezing the unit past the perimeter.

But it is a lovely cabinet. *sigh*

As for kitchen floors, I've been thinking about getting some FLOR carpet tiles. They say they are easy to install and clean (you can just hose them off)....

They come in sisal as well as other fibers.

Interesting... I just got spammed by Haziza at an address I only use for this site. I believe I've only posted it once, though I don't remember if I obfuscated the text or not. It's different than the email I had used for correspondence with Maxwell on contests, so I bet the emails are being scrapped off the comment pages.

At any rate, I do not want Haziza's ugly face sculptures or their spam. Keep an eye out folks, and keep those emails close to the chest.

P2 - weren't you looking for a piece similar to the right arm sofa on the Chicago site?

I was definitely thinking about vertical in terms of the built-in shelves since that alcove is completely underutilized and we have high ceilings.
We need to at least keep his-n-hers desk areas separate since we need our own computer space. However, a multilevel unit for his computers is a good idea. Does anyone know of an attractive (i.e. not an industrial rack) solution for vertical storage of computers?

jenpdX: is there any reason you can't create an opening through the backboard of your piece? you know just to slide it back enough, you probably need to have access to the back of hte reciever anyway, it would be easy to do with a small saw. just a thought. I'm all for upgrading your audio equipment, but if you;re not really sure you want to, i'm sure you can make it work.

Alex,

thanks for the thorough response and thanks for fully reading my post:) I'm in the same boat: covering ugly vinyl, which if the rug is set off by 6 inches doesn't totally cover the vinyl, correct? But does the job of keeping spills coming off the counters on the vinyl and not the sisal, nicely.


Anyway, I'd like to share with you my cat's behavior on the sisal rug. I was afraid she would destroy it by scratching it to death, but she quickly adopted it when I had it in the bedroom and I saw that yes she looooooves to scratch and stretch out on it, but that, although a few fibers may have pulled out, it's taking it pretty well. It is prob the cheaper variety with different price points offering different, perhaps, tighter weaves. So I put it under her litter box, which does a great job of catching the litter off her paws as she leaves the area. I then vacuum and all the bits come flying up. As stated on the sisalrug website, dirt doesn't get ground in but falls in through the cracks of the weave and then can get vacuumed out. Its natural fiber keeps mold and bacteria at bay. She continues to throw up, occassionally, elsewhere. HOWEVER, she once didn't aim very well and a piece of turd was deposited on the sisal next to the box. End of the world horrifying, I know. I took out the antibacterial cleaners and paper towels and cleaned up meticulously. No prob. If it was more liquidy, like barf, THAT would've necessitated more drastic, perhaps fatal for the rug, measures.

I apologize to everyone's sensitive sensibilities for the graphic nature of this post.

thanks.

Hey Allison, I can't see your pics. Do you have any kind of restrictions on it. I get "Access denied by access control list".

Matilda, you don't need to lay ply on top of your floor. Use a levelling compound to level off large ridges and troughs or use the normal thinset mortar skimmed over the old (thoroughly cleaned and scored) floor first for smaller troughs etc. Then lay tile on top of that.

I know there are others out there who spend their lives sleeping on a sofa bed. Are there any practical solutions to improving the quality of sleep? I close my sofa bed every day so I can not slide something under my mattress.

Any thoughts,thanks?

Susan

Colleen, I was going to suggest the same thing but it sounds like the doors are the hinged and sliding types you get on some A/V armoirs that open as usual first and then slide straight back into the cabinent thereby taking up space on each side for the full depth of the cabinet.

Joan - yeah, those pics are from when it wasn't too bad. You should see it now.... both desks are piled high with papers and the stuff on the floor has migrated out to fill the whole corner by the shelves and out under the window. My S.O. got a flat panel monitor but his old, broken CRT is now just sitting on the floor. The only furniture I wouldn't mind getting rid of are the floating shelves. I've never liked them that much as they can't hold much weight, look messy when used to store stuff, but are awfully deep for just display.

I think a floorplan rearrangement might make better functional and aesthetic use of the space, but there's a lot of constraints:
1.The futon has to be able to be open and closed wherever it goes, without moving other furniture or making a desk unusable.
2. The door has to be able to open/close without moving furniture (it just barely clears the futon now).
3. The desks have to be oriented comfortably for one left-hander and one right-hander with neither monitor getting too much glare from the window.
4. At least one monitor has to be in a position where it can be easily twisted for viewing from the couch. (We don't have a TV).
5.The radiator under the window needs clearance from any furniture.

If Jen's A/V cabinet doors are indeed of the open and slide in variety, can't they still be removed, the receiver put in and the doors reattached? She'll lose the slide-in functionality after all this is done, but as long as the doors open, it shouldn't matter much. Plus, if that part of the cabinet houses the receiver, cable box and so forth, you don't even need to open the doors all that often. God invented remote controls for that specific purpose. Of course, DVD players, etc., are a different matter.

Of course, I may be be misunderstanding what a fat receiver is: too wide? too deep? too high?

jamie pup - No idea why that would happen, but I suppose it's possible my firewall might not like your IP or something.

I made a flickr account and put them there instead:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93002351@N00/

Allison,

To me, your alcove is down on its knees, begging me please to paint it some deep, dark color and use it for a single, unified shelving and storage system. But, you have your futon, and, presumably, people in your life who want to sleep on it.

If getting rid of these people -- or "decluttering" as AT parlance has it -- is not an option, I'd suggest single shelving systems along the entire length of both his and her walls. Her wall, being brick may present a problem with wall mounted shelves. If you can afford it, I'd suggest one of the tension pole systems from Rakks, ISS, etc. Get a matching set of shelves for his wall, either wall-mounted or tension pole.

When you shelve your stuff, put it in labeled plastic or cardboard boxes. Estimate how many bozes you'll need, throw away half your stuff and buy twice as many boxes as your original estimate, all of the same type. Uniformity, dull uniformity, is the trick to keeping a work area looking tidy.

I think your present floor arrangment is not really the problem, and it has the advantage of cleanly separating his from hers.

His computers can go in the corner to the right of his desk (facing it). His CRT monitor can go in the trash. Tell him either the monitor goes or he does.

jamie pup: Are you satisfied with your BeoCom 1? Does its signal interfere with your wireless Internet?

Allison -

Definitely one large shelf unit/built-in shelves. That way everything can go on that one unit and reduce the visual clutter of smaller multiple units.

It would be nice to bring something out into the room more. I recently saw a "partner desk" at an antique store (wood school-teacher style desk from the 50's). The desk surfaces on these can be huge and each side has drawers - plenty of room for two computer monitors. I always thought that if I had the room to use one then I defintely would. Not sure what your style is, but you may be able find something along this line that fits, or it may inspire a diy project.

matilda. Re: floor covering for the kitchen. Have you considered a woven plastic rug? I have an inexpensive blue and white striped runner from IKEA. It serves the purpose of protecting the wood floors and is very easy to clean up. Since they're made for indoor/outdoor use, the rugs are very sturdy and fade-resistant. Several manufacturers have dozens of color and design options: from bold colored-graphics to more muted neutrals.

This is a flooplan idea I've been toying with:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/angorian/205083128/

We used to have a similar setup in a different apartment, but that room was much longer than this one is. I haven't actually tried the furniture out like this because it requires turning off and unplugging our computers to move furniture around.

matilda, if you are open to enrique's suggestion of a woven plastic rug, i would suggest looking at chilewich (www.dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=9036). They have a great selection of neutral colors. The prices at dwr seem high (what a surprise)... I've seen it at carpet stores where they can cut it to your specifications and bind the edges at a much better price.

Allison, For a floor plan like that to work you and he have to be extremely comfortable working alongside. Presumably, you are, or you would not have suggested it. I know that this arrangement would not work in my home.

Is your drawing to scale? Will the futon fit? Certainly, this will free your alcove for the storage use that is its destiny.

yeah, i think i misunderstood jenpdx's av cabinet issue. i see now the width not the depth is the issue. i am very handy, so if it was me i would take off the doors and remove the hinges completey then attach like an overlay hinge that would allow me to swing the doors out so they lay flat against the outside of the cabinet when open or I would take off the doors and the hinges and all the slide mech. inside and figure out how to make the doors swing up and in, toward the ceiling then back so that you could work with the height,maybe this means screwing the doors togther with a flat plate, but I guess I never imagine there isn't a solution that would save you money in the long run and make your life easier.

Stereo: I ran into this with my boconcept unit, as i also was wicked retahhhded and did not measure my stereo receiver before buying the av unit. what the PC Richards guy who installed my system did was use a small saw and cut a HOLE in the back of the AV cabinet so the ass of the receiver sticks out in the back but the door still closes

http://soorikian.com/modularmedia.php

This is the cabinet I purchased (after seeing it here on AT and thinking about it for a looong time).

My receiver is too tall.
The clearance for the top section is 5.25 inches The bottom drawer has no wire mgmt holes.

My other idea is to replace the current 1-inch shelf with something thinner. *sigh*
I'll probably send an email to the furniture folks to see if they have an approach to my dilemma...

Ok, now I get it. I had a very different idea of what you were dealing with. it's beautiful! now are you saying you can't use the bottom drawer to store your receiver because there are no wire management holes? if you don't mind drilling into it, wire management holes are the easiest thing to create. you just need a hand drill and a special attachement for making holes in wood, they sell them everywhere. I'm sorry this is not perfect, it is such a ;lovely piece, I really hope you get it to work for you.

Jen PDX, is the receiver an expensive piece to update and replace? If not, maybe you could just get a new one that fits your cabinet?

DD- we used to have our desks side by side like this in our previous apartment and really liked it. The floorplan is not to scale, but I did measure the futon and bit of wall and I think it will fit, but once it's there I may decide it's too crowded or it may not work nicely with pulling the futon out into a bed.

I am curious if anyone has any furniture arrangement ideas that place things not along the walls. I don't know that it's a big enough space to do much useful ... floating furniture requires much more space in my experience

matilda, if you're into something more, uh, "ethnic" looking, i love those indoor/outdoor rugs that look like oriental rugs. they'd be perfect for a kitchen. here's one example that was "Handcrafted by Thai artisans entirely from spent soda bottles":

http://www.greatgreengoods.com/2006/01/12/recycle-indooroutdoor-rug/

OK, I got it wrong. Too fat = too tall!

Colleen has the right idea.

Take out all the sliding track and hinge hardware and replace it with a a pair top locking hinges like this:
http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/GroupID/Lid%20Stays%20and%20Supports/CatID/Lid%20Stays/showprod/1

http://wwhardware.com/media/products/apcharts/syskls_250.gif

Or the bottom hinged version:
http://wwhardware.com/media/products/apcharts/sysdeltadia.gif

For such a relatively short door, to have it slide over and in seems like overkill.

Above was for JenPDX

To DD: No interferance between Beocom 1 and wireless internet. Also sound is very clear coupled with one of the best home phone UIs I have ever used.

Allison: thanks for posting the pics on flickr. I think the side by side works well and would also go with what DD said about full shelving and uniform, labelled boxes.

Jen, I third what Colleen said and second jp.

It seems odd to me that people who design A/V cabinets would not account for the bloated nature of components these days. You and Jonathan seem to have encountered similar problems. Old stereo cabinets tend not to accommodate new components -- I had to pass on an exquisite Bang and Olufsen cabinet once because my equipment would not fit in it -- but you'd think new furniture, especially award-winning pieces, would take real-life sizes into account.

In my case, I gave up on conventional cabinets and went the tea cart route. I found a lovely wooden tea cart with wheels. The lower level has the cable box and the fat, fat receiver. The upper level has the CD/DVD player, the tape deck and the turntable. The *depth* of the cart (i.e., the smaller horizontal dimension) exactly fits the width of my components. That leaves plenty of space at the back of the shelves for extra wires to lie coiled, invisibly from the front, for all the cable connections to stick out, etc. The whole contraption wheels away from the walls when I want to connect or reconnect something.

Allison: Furniture away from walls requires space. If yours were a one-person office, you could do a lot with it. For two people, though, it'll be tough, especially since you need room to open the futon.

On kitchen floors, one must ask oneself "What would Gandhi do?" He'd choose floors in simple white, ones that would show every splatter of pasta sauce, every stray parsley leaf, every drop of soy. Rugs, mats, etc., after all, don't prevent dirt from collecting, they just hide it.

It is so silly that a company that makes a stereo cabinet does not make it to fit common equiment! That's insane. i have run into a similiarly perplexing situation; old home often have toilet rough-ins of less than 12 inches, new toilets usually require 12 inches or more, the few toilets that I've located that allow for less than 12" (usually 10") all look space age and super modern, which is fine, but do you see the obsurdity? you're renovating an old apartment/ house, maybe you want to keep a certain feeling of age, maybe a toilet with a deco feel or a retro feel like the duravit 1930 (the name says it all, and is intended for the retro market) but you can';t use that because you have an old home. makes no sense. of course for 1k you can move your ough-in, oh if your building will allow it, that is. i love that duravit toilet, so i'm very bitter that i can't have it.

Colleen, you can get collars that (how can I describe this?) look like two toilet O rings/gaskets joined together but offset by 1 or 2 inches that are specically made for the problem you are talking about.

Found a picture:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/toiletflanges.html
Look at model number C40-640

Found more pics of a different plastic type:
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/bath/projects/remod_w1/toilet/new_1/flange_offset.htm

Thanks jamie, but i'm pretty sure those are for only slight differences in rough-in clearance. my toilet requires 10" or less and I have a flushometer there now (very little clearance), which I cannot live with. At this point, I know the only option is another toilet. that said, what do you all, with modern design sensibilites think of this one: http://www.totousa.com/productpage.asp?PID=183 is this toilet too soft looking? the lines, I mean.

Thank you JamiePup for those ideas about hinge replacement and thank you for the AT community's advice/support during my darkest design hour.

I'm going to try to resist doing anything too ra$h in the next few days and take a level-headed approach.

I took the plunge and unplugged computers and emptied the bookshelf and shoved all the furniture around. The room looks bigger to me and I think it's a better layout overall. But that's probably partly because I didn't bring back a bunch of the crap that was in here.

I also remember why we had a desk by the door. That's where the phone jack is that gives us internet access. so I've left one computer there, but that's definitely not a good long term solution since the futon really just barely fit so the computer is in the doorway.

Here's how it looks with the main bits moved.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/angorian/sets/72157594221981081/

I don't know how much play this will get, posted after midnight at the end of this thread. I imagine the morning postings will push this thread into unnoticed oblivion. If so, I may repost it to the next OT, when it is opened sometime tomorrow. Until then...

on OT 250 chris (nyc) wrote:
> ...should we post some snaps of our kitchen reno to tease...

on OT 250 jamie pup wrote:
> Chris(nyc) I have been meaning to ask you to post pictures
> so yes, please go ahead and post them.

Before (remove two large closets at right to make kitchen) -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic1_before.jpg

Closets and wall torn out, hallway boarded off -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic2_gut.jpg

Renovation drawings in plan -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic3_plan.jpg

Renovation drawings is section -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic4_sections.jpg

3D model of proposed kitchen -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic5_3d_model.jpg

Montage of photos of kitchen renovation in progress -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic6_montage_in_progress.jpg

Montage of photos of kitchen -
http://www.awardshow.name/temp/kitchen_pic7_montage_moved_in.jpg

On top of the alcove space on the cabinet above the refrigerator, I'm going to hang a piece of art, and place a plant up there, then throw one of the track-light spots on it. Right now you can see an empty wire frame wine-rack sitting alone up there.

chris - that's awesome... those must have been some big closets to fit such a nice kitchen in them! The under-cabinet lighting on the brick gives it a very warm feel despite the cool coloured fittings (white, black, stainless steel). Does this kitchen fit sensibly into the rest of the apartment floorplan? I can imagine a hall closet location that isn't really where you'd want a kitchen.

Allison wrote:
> Does this kitchen fit sensibly...?

Yes, actually, it was central to the renovation. The apartment had been two apartments that were joined together to make a floor-through sometime mid-century. Then, in the 90s it was briefly devided back into two apartments by an investment owner to collect more rent. Then it was converted back into one again to sell it, but with little regard to the layout. It was all chopped up very badly. The middle room was cut into two big closets, which made the apartment feel like two unrelated apartments connected by one very long hallway in between (hallway with two big closets), while the kitchen was awkwardly thrown into the living room up in the front. Moving the kitchen to the middle where this awkward hallway was connected the two spaces. Ripping out the old kitchen (and junky, I might add) freed up space in the living area to make a living room/dining room space in the front. Now it all feels like one apartment.

Allison - on your pix, you note a computer monitor you have to figure out how to get rid of - put it on Craigslist. I did that with computers and cellphone and I got responses from some good non-profits that I ended up donating to. Bonus: they picked the items up. So, the electronics were reused and I didn't have to haul it to a hardware recycling place.

Wow Chris, very well done reno. Great use of space and good looking finishes throughout.

Does the corner base cabinet under the microwave open out like two doors hinges in the middle? Also does that panel above the dishwasher drawer open?

I'm sorry if you have said this before but in which area of nyc do you live?

Olga,
A sisal does have the benefits of being biodegradable. You may want to go for a sisal rug that has color variation in the weave as it will tend to show stains a bit less. You can see a good example of one here - Tiger Eyes Sisal rugs. The natural weave here has natural honey tones with dark tones throughout the weave.

A second option is a woven vinyl rug. These are rugs where strips of vinyl are used as warp threads and thinner vinyl threads make up the weft. The weave looks similar to a natural fiber flat weave, but is washable and available in over 50 colors ranging from natural hues to bold reds and blues. A runner could easily be made for your kitchen. You can see an example here at woven vinyl kitchen rugs.

I guess I didn't know how to make the links work in the above post.

The Tiger eyes sisal rug can be seen here:
http://www.coastal-style.com/sisal-fndtn.html

While the kitchen rug can be seen here:
http://www.coastal-style.com/lexmat.html

Sorry about that!