apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I was watching a recorded episode of Flip This House (the one with the San Antonio family business) and, along with spray painting the brown grass to make it look like a lush green lawn (something that golf clubs do apparently), they spray painted the bathroom tiles.

So does anyone know whether this is a viable fix to dowdy looking or garishly colored tiles? We often get questions from ppl who hate the color of their tiles so if this really does work and is not simply a flipper's trick that is temporary, then it would appear to be an excellent solution.

they spray-painted the lawn? that is so ren&stimpy it's not even funny.

sheesh.

Seriously...spraypaint?

Here's the thing... spraypaint is simply aerosol lacquer and while lacquer does have excelent sticking properties, it's still paint and over time if exposed to weather or friction or temperature fluctuations it will wear.

One thing you can do to help spraypaint stick better and last longer is to use an etching primer. There are etching primers for metal, plastic, and I would imagine ceramic... essentially these primers contain chemicals (perhaps mild acids) that eat into whatever surface to which they are applied. The primer bonds very well with the surface and is chemically designed to accept spraypaint much better than an unprimed surface.

In addition to helping something stick it also ensures better coverage, more even color etc... so always use a primer with spraypaint. Hell use a primer with any paint!

Ack... I forgot...

You can also purchase from various auto suppliers and particularly online, dupont or 3M paints that are amazing! The paitns are for auto/marine/industrial use. They are often two/three part paint systems and some are bakeable enamels (read: you need a kiln or oven [not your kitchen oven lest you like the taste of paint]) I have used them to paint bicycles and furniture projects and let me tell you they are serious!

They last forever, look great and really look professional. The only catch is that you need a spraygun and SERIOUS VENTELATION as they are quite hazardous.

Dupont makes a whole series of metal flake/pearlescent colors that I want to apply to EVERYTHING!!!!

Were any of you at Ellen Lupton's lecture "Design your Life" held at the Municipal Art Society's Urban Center Books on Wednesday night? It was a very good talk.

Before it began and after it finished, I found myself wondering if any AT folk were there. Was that Jamie Pup and his wife, Jackie Kitten, in the row in front of me? Was that the oppoponax attacking the cheese and crackers with relish? Was that Jonathan stepping on everybody's toes Was that P2 slipping a laxative into his drink?

Hmmm... do I sense a market for licensing the squiggle designs as hats, t-shirts, totebags, and brooches, so that AT addicts can recognize one another in the wild?

It's more elegant than my plan of wearing a laminated photo of one's apartment at all important events.

DD/Concerned Citizen--

I wouldn't waste good laxative.

i think on wednesday night i was drunkenly staring out the window of our balcony and deciding whether to jump the f*ck off of it. if P2 were going to secretly drug me, it would be so that he could do unspeakable, godless things to me. since his personal choices have bound him to the fiery pits of hell, he has nothing to lose anyway.

I wouldn't waste good "unspeakable, godless things" either.

And me thinks the lady doth protest too much with his homophobic "witty banter."

(gekko-- any clearer why I have backed off here?)

i think the main reason spraypainting tile isn't a great idea (even if you prime first and/or use an industrial grade paint) is that i don't see how you could reliably avoid painting the grout, too. which would make it really obvious that it had been spray painted.

and if i went out househunting and realized the bathroom tile had been painted over, it would be Deal Breaker City. actually, i feel that way about a lot of the stuff i've seen on those flipper shows. their advice is akin to what must have been given to my landlady back in 1982 -- the kind of stuff that anybody who respects homes and spaces would hate.

Perhaps we should have an AT handshake so that we can recognize each other. I was once, briefly, a boy scout. Eventually I was expelled for non-attendance, but before that I learned various useful skills: knots, bullying, fending off scout masters, cheating (a popular way to win various scouting competitions) and the scout handshake. This last, we were told, was the way we'd recognize each other in civilian life. Even at the time it seemed an odd procedure. Did you go around grabbing people's hands and sticking your little finger where it wasn't supposed to go, then wait and see how they responded, or did you wait for them to make the first move?

So, perhaps, the handshake is not the way to go. Plus, there's the problem of those of us who hide behind sock puppets. I'm brave enough to use my real name, but what of those who hide behind such obviously fake names as "wende" or "Patrick (too)" or "Jonathan"?

And, Jonathan, if instead of spending your Wednesday night pondering whether life is worth living, you'd attended the "Design Your Life" talk you'd have found out for sure that it isn't. You'd then have found the part of the talk that showed how to plan your own funeral entirely from Ikea furniture -- the Billy bookcase can be modified into a handy coffin -- very useful.

homophobic, p2? please. that's a real term for real people with real views that can affect real victims. don't wave the flag like some undergraduate idiot unless you mean it.

I disagree with opo (surprise!). I have seen well-painted baths (tile) and while obviously an interim solution, the appearance is clean and neat and actually makes grout maintenance a lot easier.

But I believe the successful situations I've seen have been professionaly done, with an epoxy-based paint.

P2, this is your site; we want you here.

Um, so is Dabbler your married or maiden name?

that's kind of the thing, p2. if i'm buying a house, i'd like to know what the tiles actually look like, not what some idiotic flipper thought John Q. Homebuyer would want.

and i hate the idea that you can cheap out and fudge up your house to trick someone into buying something they wouldn't ordinarily want.

If the tiles are crappy enough to paint, even as an interim solution, then it's pretty obvious no one is pulling the wool over anyone's eyes, and I would never see it as such.

It *would* mean I could probably continue to live with the bath as is, and not be nauseated into an immediate reno I might not be ready for or instatntly able to afford.

And I hate that you assume anyone who would resort to this is an "idiotic flipper" trying to screw you, oh-so innocent homebuyer.

but that's the whole tone of these shows. put one over on those moronic home buyers by spray painting your ugly tile!

if i'm forced to move into a house with ugly tile, i'd rather have the choice and decide to paint it myself. also, who's to say i wouldn't have loved tile the seller thinks is ugly? i hate a lot of things that are said to up the asking price of a home.

I was sitting here admiring Julian's posts about paint - his knowledge and all is quite good and definitely helpful - and suddenly I see the conversation went south - again. Too much of this is why I stopped posting for a long time and lost interest - it ceased being about AT.

Sock Puppets? Dabbler?

I will refrain from commenting on Jonathan's usual banter as I don't know him.

P2: I met P2 at an AT function in April and he is a great looking fellow with a brilliant smile and inspiring sense of humor and incredible design skills. I do believe he uses his real name. I agree with Pixie. We want him here.

Back to tile: I've painted bathroom tile. The end result is not only in selecting the correct primer and paint technique, but also in whether you do a good job. Properly painted tile can be beautiful, like anything else well done.

While I yell at the TV constantly during flipping shows, it's usually for doing changes that are too high-end to have a decent ROI (or for messing up scope, schedule, and budget).

There are times when a complete bathroom redo would make the house either a money-loser or too expensive for its neighborhood. If the paint method *works*, makes the place presentable, and moves the house into the hands of an owner-occupant who is happy with it, it makes sense to me. Not all old tile is historically significant -- there's a lot of contractor-grade oatmeal-colored tile running loose out there.

I painted tile in a bathroom before. I also used nitric acid to burn the pattern off a glittery countertop.

It was truly a horrendous bathroom, with plastic tile sheet on the walls in a gold and grey fake marble mixture. We used an etching primer and then a sage green oil paint painted on with a foam brush.

It was such an improvement, but no one would walk in and think it wasn't painted - but it looked good. It looked a LOT better than it did before.

the opoponax: Wouldn't your objection apply to any cosmetic changes a seller makes? Who's to say you wouldn't have loved the peeling paint the seller thinks is ugly? It seems to me that covering structural flaws with cosmetic touches is bad, but that it's the seller's right to do anything else that enhances the market value of her property.

Well the point of my post was to find out if this technique that I happened to see a flipper do actually had legs. I did not mean to imply that it had to be crap because it is only what flippers do (but I did ask if that could be the case).

I was seriously asking on behalf of the ppl that want to do what p2 suggested, which is to make a horrible looking (in their eyes) bathroom tolerable or much better looking by painting the tile. Not to fool a buyer but to help themselves get a better looking bathroom.

No offense opoponax, I see where you're coming from and I agree that there are shortcuts that flippers use that can fool a buyer but that kind of went off on a tangent that I did not intend (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Thank you julian, jackie, and p2 for your replies.

(Hi Jamie Pup)

One more thought on the tile paining:

On many of the flipping and redo programs, I've noticed, they paint the entire wall of tiles one color. What I've done, and have seen others do, is paint the entire tile surface and go back and retrace the grouting with a dull white using a thin brush and steady hand. Tons of work but this makes a huge difference. And yes, it will always look different than fresh tile but many times it's simply a saner solution.

Also, real tile, even solid color, has shadows and such things so when painting tile this should be a consideration. One can use a soft technique such as a VERY light sponging and then top off the finished (cured) paint job with a clear varnish made for watery areas.

Where did I read about someone looking for a coffee table that raises to dining height? I just saw this one a Chiasso's weekly email solicitation:

http://www.chiasso.com/store/Item.aspx?DepartmentId=40&ItemId=50091&bronto=060922

Painting the bathroom tiles if done well may be an interim fix that is livable until more serious remodeling. But if I were the home buyer it would lower my offering price since I'd know it would require a renovation, it would not increase the home value in my opinion.

At an upscale apt on the upper east side, one of the bathrooms has the inside the shower tile painted black, the tub is black (maybe painted or not) plus a whole lot of retchful dark green marble and gilt and heavy green drapery as shower curtain. My first impression was one of sheer horror but I needed to touch the tile to see if it was indeed true: paint? It felt like heavy-duty epoxy type glossy surface. The client said the shower has been used plenty and this was done many yeaes ago.

I share this because it was obviously a choice the homeowners made during one of their extensive renovations. Money is not lacking there so perhaps other reasoning determined the choice to paint. There are no scratches or visible dings. It is not walked on, of course, but receives water, I suppose.

On the subject of tiles... my kitchen floor is tiled in these lovely two-tone tiles. The tiles are a bit wierd in that they look printed, rather than glazed. They look fine as is, but they'd look much better if they had a bit more shine to them. Can you wax a tile floor? should you?

If I did, what kind of wax would be appropriate?

I've not seen any flip shows where they tried to intentionally screw buyers or put deceptive bandaids on major flaws.

And jimkk makes a great point... one person's cosmetic fix is another's closing bargaining chip.

ps: Thank you, Jackie.

i don't know if this store has been mentioned before, but i was in chelsea and walked into a store called mantiques, selling mcm with a touch of wierdness (i think i saw an animal head). i decided on no evidence that mantiques stands for manly antiques, i half expected to be offered a cocktail by p2. :-)

and while i'm sure most at readers are too hip for the uws, i just discovered gotham gardners on columbus, which has sells cut flowers, plants and related items of an organic japanese sort of aesthetic. the staff was surprisingly gracious and helpful, the flower selections are wide-ranging and most exciting (are you there fellow lotus-lover), they carry lotuses as well as waterlilies.

P2 WELCOME BACK AND GUIDO too, I wondered where you were. I saw some painted bathroom tiles at a friends house this afternoon. He could't live with the salmon pink in his beautiful 50's era house so they are now white. He said the price for having it sprayed was $1500 so he did it himself for $40. The fumes were fierce, however. It looked better than I would have thought.

Have any of you used Amtico flooring? It's vinyl that looks a lot like wood. They also have simulated marble but it doesn't look as good as the wood.

I saw an example of it today and I was QUITE impressed. Just wondering what you guys think.

jennie (2)--
I think Amtico has a good rep, but you're right, some finishes/simulations are better than others. It is definitely at the high end of the vinyl market.

I think one of the benefits is its ability to go over less-than-perfect subfloors.

I have an Amtico sample right now. Oops, my bad, it's Mannington Adura which looks like tile. However, it's pretty similar in price to tile so I'm not feeling the love. (Why not just get the tile?)

I also have some samples of Karndean fake vinyl wood and it looks really great. (I have a dog and this is going in my kitchen where I spill stuff frequently, so no real wood's going in here.)

Exploring every option. Etched polished concrete? Maybe. I'm trying to do something relatively inexpensive versus slate.

I think it's high time that baby showed his face. Walk to the light, little feller!

Okay, after reading this and other resources, I'm going to paint the tile in my bathroom, including (against advice) inside the shower/bath surround. This is what I'm proposing. I'm asking for any feedback:

The tile in the bathroom is lame, tan-speckled on white, slightly textured, and the porcelain in the tub has some kind of wierd grey, oval stain pattern on the floor of it. Nothing gets it off. Nothing. It's like it used to have a mat in there and someone never moved it to clean. I'm not pulling the whole thing out (can't afford to right now, and can't commit to anything even if I could afford to). So this may be lunatic, but it's my house, so I can screw it up as bad as I want, because I'll just want to screw it up some other way next year. I'm fixing to prime the tiles with an epoxy primer and then put Rustoleum Hammered Finish silver paint on that. That stuff is awesome, and since there's a bumpy texture to the ceramic underneath anyway, I think it will look cool. I always wanted a stainless steel shower, and this won't look anything like one, but it will remind me often that I want one. Then I've got some trippy metallic-looking quarter-round to put at the junction of the wall and the tub itself. It's not really silver, more like a metallic grey, and then from those I'm going to pave the inside of the tub with melted marbles in various colors, again, most with that metallic sheen, but some with a matte finish to reduce the slippage. I haven't settled on an adhesive yet for those, but I'll probably etch the porcelain first and use some kind of acrylic or vinyl adhesive. These feel fabulous underfoot, and if I was a taker of baths, I imagine they would feel very nice underass as well. I'm toying with the idea of cutting the quarter-round out of the scheme and using some Drylok cement instead to smooth the transition onto the wall and then running the marbles partway up out of the tub in places.

It's too long a post, I know, but if anyone has tried any of these things and has a word of warning to offer, it would be appreciated. Tnx.