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I'm from Seattle & still mail order coffee from Stumptown.
Next time you're out that way-check it out. It's always on Food & Wine's list for the best coffee. I'm not being defensive here, just giving you a heads up when you're needing a good cup of joe.

http://www.stumptowncoffee.com/

Actually I don't recall seeing quite as many Starbuck's in Seattle as I do in other cities.

The juxtaposition of grit and coffee is not a happy one.

I live in Cincinnati now but still get all my coffee from Porto Rico:

http://www.portorico.com

I completely agree with you about the Slow Coast, zzzzz...

Funny how every street corner in Manhattan is occupied by Starbucks, a coffee chain from Seattle. Before the West Coast changed New Yorkers coffee habits, your average New Yorker's idea of coffee was a cup of nasty brown sludge and Cremora.

And if you can't appreciate the quintessential contrast of Los Angeles glam standing elbow to elbow next to LA grime, you really don't understand America.

True grit, my left nut.

There's a disconnect in Seattle? Give me a break; you want gleaming crap next to kids posing as gritty, just walk through the east village.

Thanks for the tip, right angle. I'll try it next time I'm out that way. Another find was World Spice Merchants. No coffee, but lots of nice teas and really great spices, including more varieties of zatar than at Sahadi's!

Dave, never have I ever used the word "juxtaposition" more than after my one trip to LA. I hear ya.

And, true confession time... even being here since 95, I still don't always *get* New York City. Sometimes it seems very Emperor's New Clothes to me.

I know, sacrilege.

I'm from Seattle and from what I've noticed, if you want good coffee you almost never think to go to Starbucks.

If you want good coffee you'll have to move to Italy.

Actually, I was born here in Manhattan -- sometime before 1995 I should add -- and I find no one who wasn't born here ever really "gets" NYC.

On the subject of good coffee, however, anyone else remember the old Italian coffee houses that used to dot Soho and the Village before Starbuck's and high rents drove them out of business?

the smell (smells like burnt coffee to me) when i walk by a starbuck's is starting to trigger the same noxious reaction i have when i walk past a subway (the sandwich place) and smell their signature sour, stinky "fresh" bread smell. yuck.

And one of the reason I don't always "get it" is because those born here are so proprietary about the whole Manhattan thing, in an often pompous and frequently exclusionary way.

Hey, all I'll say on the java issue is Blue Mountain Coffee is the best!!

My burning question is, what does PA plan to do with this beautiful building?

thanks,
Coco

I think the TWA building is going to be renovated as part of the new Jet Blue terminal.

Thank you P(too)! JB's comment had shades of 'green'.

I LIKE starbucks. It's made of people.

P2 -

Methinx that syndrome is the least bad here than in any town I ever lived in (and that was about 7 of them) back in Louisiana.

Here in NYC, I'd say that most people that I meet are NOT from here, so it's really not as noticeable for me. But also, I think that the people who aren't from here are a little more able to appreciate what is here; we don't take it all for granted in the same way.

JonathanB - I agree. I'm not from New York, have lived here since the early 1980s, and I don't "get" New York at all. It's true that people who were born here have an understanding I don't - just look at my younger half-sister, who was born and raised here, and is so hep to New York she doesn't even know there's something others don't get. (But I'll say, she wouldn't last a year in the midwest!)

Oh, and Curtis is right - almost everyone I meet here is not from New York, but this is their home and they're never leaving!

P2 & Sea - Could you guys elaborate on "don't get NYC". I hear it often but never really heard a "proper definition or description" of that feeling.

Damn Boomer! I wish I had thought of Charbucks, that's spot on! A lot of coffee drinkers I know feel their beans are over roasted.

I guess that doesn't really matter though when half of Starbuck's clientele drinks a smaller amount of their coffee adulterated with a thick mix of cream, caramel, whipped cream, chocolate, nuts, sugar, etc. Everyone's so hard on McDonalds but I'll bet Starbucks is happy to let them take the spotlight when it comes to blaming somebody for America's obesity.

Kids love Happy Meals, well kids love "coffee" now too.

I didn't know Peets was an original Starbucks guy. Peets is good but that stuff is like street speed. Decaf for me please.

I hope New Yorkers take to Intelligentsia. They have a great philosophy. Their roasts are perfect and their baristas consistently produce a good drink.

This is my latest fave http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluebottlecoffeeco/

As for New Yorks grittiness? It's got its grit, not as much as did 15 years ago maybe. But doesn't NY seem to be going in the same direction as many other big cities? Massive commercialisation, condo development, gentrification...I think SF is pretty gritty too. I've always admired SF though for its ability to control the type of development that can erase culture and replace it with sterility. Too me, NY still has a magical quality about it and I always wished I had the opportunity to "make it" there.

I'm hooked on Trader Joe's Dark Sumatra coffee!!

If the TWA Terminal is put back in use I suggest they get ramps, escalators and anything else to help those of us with suitcases move easily thru the terminal. I was shocked to find out the hard way that those things don't exist there. Even the food places are up a flight of stairs. Why would anyone design an airline terminal without taking into account the people lugging suitcases?!

I've lived here since 1976. It never entered my head that "I don't get this city". What does that mean?

That old terminal was designed before the invention of airport security -- wasn't it one that bragged you could park within a short walk of your gate and go directly to the gate?

Yeah, I think you're right, wende. I really is a beautiful piece of architecture but whenever I had to use it I dreaded it. By the time I got to the gate I was usually pissed off at Saarinen. Didn't HE have a suitcase?

Chucky,
Well, I'm a little reluctant to try to spell it out, since I love love love this city. But, I guess the sense I have that contrasts with those I've met who've been here forever is that it's not "all that". I could live MANY places, both cities and non-cities, and be happy. But my sister thinks the world revolves around here. She travels, but is always rooted to this city, in a way that I'm not rooted to it. (I have no idea if that's what other people mean when they talk about this.)

Sea, I do share your view. I love NYC but I am one of these people who have lived in different places and find any city/place has its con and its pro.

The concept of a particular place as "le nombril du monde" is particularly off-putting to me. Luckily I have very few real, real New Yorkers friends...

I don't find it off-putting! As I say, maybe they know something I don't. And it would be nice to feel that one's home is the center, n'est pas? I wish I could.... (wistfully looks out the window)

I currently live in the city Forbes magazine rated the #5th cleanest city in the world (no other American cities made the list) but I would trade it in a minute for Seattle, where I lived for many years. If you like a moderate climate, nothing beats the Pacific Northwest. Starbucks is to be avoided at all times, in favor of small coffee houses that roast beans daily and don't overroast. In Seattle, those coffee houses are not hard to find, just ask anyone on the street.

Actually, Honolulu is #2 and Minneapolis is #5. I'm actually kind of surprised to find that two American cities made it into the top five!

You're right, I think they said "no other American city on the North American continent" made the list. That said, and having visited Honolulu a time or two, I still prefer Seattle.

Hmm. When I come across people who claim that they don't "get" New York, I assume they don't "get" London, Paris, Tokyo, or Mexico City either.

Such all have more in common with one another than any of them have with their respective countries. It's a odd mix of people and places, cultures and commodities crammed into limited space that molds and forces certain modes of behavior. For better or for worse.

I suppose that the tolerance born of having seen too much can be seen as pompous by those who have not. By the way, I'm the only "born in Manhattan" person among my circle of friends. I treat it as a joke. Sorry if the people who don't "get" New York, don't get the joke either.

Alas, the city I grew up in no longer exists. The range of social and political types that made it such a wonderful place to live have been priced out. The island is slowly becoming a gated community for the well-off, if not the wealthy.

As much as I shudder at the thought of living on the mainland, I am seriously considering moving to Seattle. Where at least there are fewer Starbucks.

JonathanB: "Hmm. When I come across people who claim that they don't "get" New York, I assume they don't "get" London, Paris, Tokyo, or Mexico City either."

Well, you've found me out! I don't get those places either (though I've really liked visiting a few of them, and even have relatives near Paris, and used to commute to my boyfriend who lived in London). But also, I don't think you're pompous - and neither are any of the other born and bred New Yorkers I know (including my sister). But it is really funny how many non-born-in-NY folk are running around this city, isn't it?

Oh, and I know a few "born in Manhattan" people who have settled down in other states... and it's so interesting that they each say, over and over, "How did I end up here? Can you believe I live here?"

"I suppose that the tolerance born of having seen too much can be seen as pompous by those who have not. "

No, but thinking that being from New York, Paris, Tokyo, et.al. makes one tolerant sure is pompous.

Because based on personal experience, I've found just as many closed minded, racist, homophobic, sexist "born in New York" New Yorkers as I've found outside New York.

Hmmm, it's crowded, dirty, loud, with a public transport system that can be shut down by one sick passenger, stores that (largely) close at 7, rents are astronomical, great gay districts (if you have zero body fat and are 30, tops), great restaurants and theater (if you can afford them), draining as often as it is energizing... what's *not* to get?

I agree with you, P2. New York can be amazing, but I don't like living here all the time. And not being independently wealthy.

I still don't know what shannon means by "true grit," but I'd still take the fresh air, cleanliness, and reasonable rents in Seattle over the insanity of Manhattan almost any day.

LOVE seeing the saairinen twa terminal as much as possible