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I have a question about sofas like that that don't have seat cushions. I really like the look of them, but my husband thinks that under daily wear and tear it will start to look lumpy and misshapen and there won't be any way to re stuff it to make it look right again (the way you'd be able to in a sofa with seat cushions). Does anyone have any long term living experience with something like that who can give me some feedback about it?

Has anyone ever gotten furniture (dining chairs/sofas specifically). Are they durable and a good bang for the buck or are they flimsy?

Bluestar - I tend to agree with your husband. Personally I wouldn't buy any sofa without separate seat cushions if it's for daily use. Not so much for the lumpy factor but because it's a lot cheaper to replace a cushion or even have one custom made if necessary than it is to recover a couch. You can get a new foam insert for 20 bucks. And a down wrapped foam insert for about 60 bucks (or at least I can, at my local upholsterer's shop).

The antique Duncan Phyfe sofa in my bedroom was recovered by it's last owner without seperate cushions. When I get up the money to have it recovered (nothing wrong with it but I don't like her choice of fabric), I'm going to pay extra to have cushions made for the seat.

I also tend to like a more "cushy" feel. That's why I tend to go for hand tied coil springs and down-wrapped cushions.

Personally at this price point I think you would be lucky to get good quality considering what the typical markup is. This would have to wholesale at around $250 or less. So think about it.

Even in China, where this is undoubtedly from, it's got to be hard to build and ship a quality piece for that price even in quantity.

I was at CB2 yesterday but I didn't sit in the Chet Sofa so I can't be much help. I am going back today or tomorrow so I'll let you know.

RE: bluestar question... We have two such sofas, one from the 50's/60's and the stuffing has just started deteriorating. We are looking at a re-upholstery job. The other was about $600, is about 3 years old and it is a little lumpy. The stuffing can be repositioned with a good beating. My friends have the CB2 Zoom sofa in their business and after 3 years it still looks great.

Hm...thanks for the tips boomer and nicole. I have to say that I hadn't thought about it until my husband brought it up, but I am almost persuaded by the argument :) The other issue we're having is that I insist that if we buy a sofa (it'll be the first one we buy together, the ones we have now are hand me downs and will not fit up the stairs in our new place) we spend money on a good, quality sofa. I'm not saying we should just go out and plunk down money on the most expensive couch out there, just that I want to be sure we don't spend $600 now and live to regret it six years from now you know? But he cringes at the thought of spending more than $500 on a couch. *sigh* It's going to be a looooong debate this summer :)

that is the ugliest sofa I have ever seen

Ditto gina. They'll hate it in...oh...maybe 36 months?

Bluestar - I bought a new sofa two years ago. My first new one in a very long time.

I tend to turn things like this into almost an engineering project. Weeks of research, reading specs, reading about construction techniques, etc (I'm a systems validation engineer by trade).

What I found just made me sick when it came to the though of trying to do it on a budget. It really can't be done on a budget, with your stated design goal.

If you want a quality piece that last for years and you'll be really happy with, plan on spending a couple grand or maybe more.

You want hardwood frames (kiln dried only), made with corner blocks and glue.

$600 sofas are made with pine and staples. Trust me on this.

Even Natuzzi sofas that every one raves about are made with cheap leather and using rubber bands for suspension (I am not joking - they use rubber in a thatched pattern). A Nutzzi sofa will be landfill material in 5 years. Justy look at the 5 year old Natuzzi sofas on any Craigslist. They look like hell after 5 years.

Consider leather. It will make your husband happy and it's cheaper in the long run than fabric.

No, not the cheap junk from Target or Pennys or Sears or Levitz (overpriced garbage from what I've seen).

Think "Ethan Allen" at a minimum, and you can get better for the same money as Ethan Allen.

Here in the Portland (OR) area my favorite sofa store is Leather Furniture Company. Their stuff is all build-to-order and they carry great brands.

My dogs jump up and dwon on my sofa all hours of the day and it still looks new after two years. It's been used as a spare bed and etc. All I ever have to do is take a slightly damp soft cloth and wipe it down.

So yeah, it's a lot of money at first, but in the long run it's cheaper to buy a well made sofa for a couple of grand and have it last for a long time than to buy a cheap one and replace it in a few years.

One more thing on leather - *never* buy any furniture with so called "bi-cast" leather. The reason it's shiny is because it's coated with poly-urethane. Which means it can't breathe, and you'll sweat and stick to it. Also bi-cast is made from poor quality leather called a "split". A "split" is what's left after the best quality of the hide is removed (called "top grain" because it's the top of the hide). Also the coating on a bi-cast leather piece will crack and look horrible in 5 years. Anybody in the industy who is honest will tell you that. Again, just look at 5 year old leather pieces on Craigslist.

Finally, still raving about leather (;->), "semi-aniline" leather is generally more resistant to every day scuffs and scratches then "pure aniline". It's also less expensive (and still very soft and supple - that's what's on my sofa).

A good sofa is an indulgence, not a commodity, and needs to be treated like it, unless you're OK with spending $600 on new sofas every couple of years.

At least that's my opinion for what it's worth.

If you want some great info on leather and furniture construction and links to manufacturers...

http://www.leatherfurniturecompany.com/

Thanks boomer! I *could* be tempted into a leather couch, but it would probably take me a while to find one I liked enough to shell out the money for it. And again, my husband would probably die at seeing the price tags on some of the nicer leather sofas out there. I'm not sure where we'll end up in the great debate, but hopefully I'll win :) At any rate, thank you very much for all the info, it's extremely helpful as we start our research!

I don't like the legs on the sofa, they don't go!

No seat cushions--> can't flip them over if stained.

Bluestar - check this one out. It's *extremely* comfortable, I think, and doesn't look like a run of the mill leather sofa. It's a biggie though (99 inches!). You'll need pros to take it up your stairs.

http://www.leatherfurniturecompany.com/BeverlyHillsA.JPG

This one below is the one I ended up getting, only in a buttery cream color, not white like the picture. It's smaller and fits my space better (it's a more standard 86").

http://www.leatherfurniturecompany.com/enewcastle.JPG

Both of these are made by Elite Leather. All the specs are on their website (in PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format).

http://www.eliteleather.com/

Oh - on cost, it's really not that much more for a leather sofa than a fabric one! On a nice sofa built to last for several years, the difference in cost is somewhere around 10% depending on how fancy you get with the leather choices or fabric choices. Some fabric is a lot more expensive than leather, even.

Bluestar --
Just to offer a different perspective, my husband and I have been living with a couch from Room & Board (similar to the Parker one they are currently offering) for the past three years. We basically live on the couch: I work on the couch during the day, we lounge on the couch in the evenings, and we frequently snack and sometimes dine on the thing. (Yeah, it gets more use than any other piece of furniture in the house!)

I'm happy to report the seat and back cushions are still firm and non-lumpy. I did insist on getting the thing in microsuede, so that stains come off easily, and the vaccuum gets the crumbs off just fine. That said, it's still about twice your stated budget, and here I would agree with boomer that it's well worth convincing the husband to shell out a bit more up front for something that (a) will be used an awful lot and (b) will have some staying power.

Hm. You're all giving me some serious food for thought here...boomer, the couches you linked to are nice, but not quite my taste, plus part of the reason we've become more serious about buying one is that we're potentially moving into an apartment that it will be veeeery tricky to get a couch into. 99 inches is WAY out of the question :)

My very favorite sofa is this one from restoration hardware: http://tinyurl.com/2yc74x

It's way out of our price range and way too big for our new place, but you know, in a perfect world.

Also, RH has the only leather sofa that I've ever actively lusted after, which is this one (I like it in the Sable): http://tinyurl.com/2ap7nn

Okay, at this point I've devolved into linking to my fantasy sofas. A more realistic option, and one that got a begrudging head nod from my husband was this: http://tinyurl.com/2ggted

I also like a lot of the options at Room and Board but there isn't one near us and it's a deal breaker for him not to be able to go into a store and test it out.

Bluestar -

Again I agree with your husband - test driving is a must for me too. That ruled out all the ones I found online because I could never find a store that had them.

To give you another option for a sectional, this is very very close to your C&B sectional your husband likes (?).

It's by American Leather, comes in Ultra Suede (like microfiber?) and regular leather. You can get it with 8-way hand tied coil springs, high density (firm) foam inserts, and a bunch of other options. Specs are here (click on the " Bennet" at the top of the page). You can even change the configuration.

http://www.americanleather.com/Products/Sectionals-Transitional.asp

American Leather is a pretty widely available brand, so it should be relatively easy to find a dealer that carries these.

Here's a NY area dealer where you can test drive it or get more info. Hope you find what you both want. Good luck!

http://www.jensen-lewis.com/product.php?pid=00000559

Hey thanks again boomer, I actually really like that and I bet he will too. They have three dealers near us (we're in Boston) too! Excellent :) My theory is, if I can build up a pretty large number of sofas that I like and that are within a varied price range then he can just pick whichever he likes best and I'll be happy with the decision. That *seems* like compromise, right? ;)

Right on! Win win. Have fun. Good luck again...

Bluestar - wish they were all like you...

I agree with LaDonna Nichole. While I like the idea of justaposing traditional with modern, the legs are really out of proportion with the body of the sofa. It is a little like a pumpkin on 4 toothpicks.

Bluestar,

F.Y.I. Many of the sofas sold at Restoration Hardware are made by Mitchell Gold out of North Carolina, who also make sofas sold through other retailers like Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn, ABC Carpet & Home, L.L. Bean, Neiman Marcus, and Chambers. I consider them quality and they do not use hand tied springs, instead they use steel serpentine springs for their sofas.

Keep looking out there for "the one" but I wouldn't necessarily avoid items at the stores above just because there sofas are affordable. Cost really is not a good way to judge quality. Sometimes it just means you are willing to pay more than the other guy.

Yes, I see the typos now. Oops!

Lisa, I don't see serpentine springs as a lower quality per se, it's in the feel of the "ride" while you sit. Serpentine springs tend to give a more firm seat with a bit of a bounce.

8-way hand tied springs tend to give a softer gentler feel. Since I prefer that feel to a hard firm seat, I personally prefer 8-way hand tied springs. It's more about personal preference than quality.

But someone buying a new sofa does need to be aware of the choices and test drive each type of suspension to see which they prefer, and to see if the extra labor cost is worth it in terms of overall comfort.

I also opted for down-wrapped cushions. Nobody complains my sofa is too soft, nor do they sink down. It's just a very comfortable softer seat with more give.

Personal preference...

Nothing else. :->

We had a cushionless CB2 sofa in the $600-800 range for about 3 years- it was just like their current armless Cinema sofa but with curved metal platform legs instead. It had a cotton/linen fabric. The cushioning held up fairly well, except for the area where my 6'2", 190lb husband liked to sit every night and there you could see some sagging. More significantly, the fabric thinned and then ripped after about a year and a half of use in the same spot. It probably could have lasted longer if we had it reupholstered, but that might have cost as much as the sofa.

This was a good, affordable, temporary solution for us but I wouldn't expect something in this price range to last more than a few years unless it gets little use.

It might be useful to note that the seat depth of our cushionless CB2 sofa was somewhat narrow which did not work well for my tall husband. Not sure if they are all like that, but our new Crate & Barrel Petrie sofa is much more comfortable in that aspect (and the quality difference is apparent as well).

chococat-

Your tall husband would *love* one like this, not so much for the style/looks but because it's one of the deepest seats I've ever sat on. I think some people might not even need ottomans, it's so comfortable.

http://www.leatherfurniturecompany.com/BeverlyHillsA.JPG

You can get the specs here :

http://www.eliteleather.com/pdfs/beverly_hills_specs.pdf

Very interesting chococat, my husband is actually 6'5 and about 280, so the depth of the sofa and it's ability to hold up to him sitting in the same spot day after day would definitely be a factor.