apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

To go the Shelf Shop on the Upper East Side. They have these tension-rod held, completely customizeable, shelves that are awesome. Here's their website:

http://www.shelfshop.com/

Don't be put off by the fug that is their website—the shelves are a great solution to crappy walls, uneven floors, and weird spaces (like above a radiator).

If there are studs at the top of your walls, you might want to look into picture rail molding. I'm not sure how much weight it can hold, though.

I had a similar problem with crumbly walls when I tried to install decorative curtain rods. There are special anchors made for this problem, (NOT the regular plastic circle ones with butterfly legs) which are made of metal and look like an H with a hole in the middle for the screw. You hammer them in not screw, yes, it takes a few hard blows, but they work! They will stay in the wall (whether you like it or not) and they have kept my heavy floorlength silk curtains up with no problem.

why don't the studs work? it seems like there might be more serious problems than just being unable to hang shelves if the studs don't hold things...

We've got plaster walls here and it's a nightmare to hang things. We got special anchors but yet we're not confident with the result. :( Considering our building is exactly 1 year old, it should be stronger, right?

Molly bolts (aka metal toggle bolt anchors) and/or large concrete or brick screws are the only hanging devices that work for me, but they make big holes that we'll have to deal with if we move. We're renting a house that has old lath and plaster walls backed by brick and then exterior stucco. I need to believe that there are studs in there...somewhere...but I have not found them, even after borrowing a fancy stud finder. The big bolts work.

I was beyond embarassed when the adjustable shelving that I put in the pantry space in a friend's VERY old apartment in an old Brooklyn brownstone came crashing down one day.

So... to put them back up, what I did was... I got an entire sheet of ply-wood, and basically screwed it into the wall with as many screws as I possibly could. See, it was a plaster wall which was the old-timey kind with lattice behind the plaster, and some of the screws would go in-between the lattice and some of them WOULD hit the lattice but with that many of them it was definitely going to hold. But the REAL kicker is that since I was basically standing the sheet of plywood on its edge onto the actual floor, the FLOOR would be bearing most of the actual weight.

Anyway... then I painted the plywood out to just be white, like the wall had already been, and I put the shelving back up, and it's been holding just fine ever since.

That's just one thought. Meanwhile, since this was actually a closet there happened not to be any baseboard molding in the way of what I was doing, so... keep that in mind if you end up taking my suggestion.

I'll mention also that in houses past I've used molly bolts in drywall to hang floating bookshelves. However, one needs to bury a few screws in a stud and use molly bolts in the drywall elsewhere to make the job sustainable.

I'm assuming that your walls are plaster, right?

Are you drilling pilot holes before you hammer nails in? With plaster walls, a tiny pilot hole can do wonders. If the plaster and lathe are very close to underlying brick, you may need to use a masonry bit to drill. Just make sure the bit you use is smaller than the nail you'll be using. Putting a piece of painter's tape on the wall where you plan to drill will prevent the plaster on the surface from crumbling when the bit makes contact with the surface.

For hanging pictures, use a good picture hanger (like Ook brand) with the supplied nail. For shelves, either drill directly into studs (if you have any -- it's possible that your walls are plaster and lathe directly over structural brick), or use an anchor labeled specifically for use in plaster walls -- and make sure to check the weight limits for each anchor/screw. Again, always drill first.

My house is 125 years old and has plaster walls -- and I have shelves hanging all over the place that carry very heavy loads (dishes, books, etc.).

Finding studs in plaster is an art...the only way I've found is to get the smallest drill bit I can find and start drilling holes an inch apart until I hit one. Patch the holes & repaint...a pain, but that's the only way I've found.

Molly bolts are great, but they have weight ratings and I think floating shelves with things like books on them really weigh too much. You need floating shelves really bolted in several places from the stud...

Good luck!

Deb

Try 3M Command hooks. They even have picture-hanging strips that are like really strong velcro.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Command/home/

How about a leaning-ladder-style bookshelf?

I have the same problem and have had success with these: http://www.magichooks.net/1743625.html

Just a note on Curtis's comment...

The "lattice" he refers to is actually lathe, which is NOT structural -- it's there solely to support the weight of the plaster and its components. You should NEVER rely on lathe as a support when hanging anything on the wall. It's OK to drill/nail into the lathe, but don't count on it to provide any additional weight support over the long term. Wood lathe is the very reason why it can be so hard to find the studs in old walls -- studfinders often can't distinguish between studs and lathe, and test-drilling can be very tricky.

Curtis, I don't doubt that your shelves are sturdy, but that's most likely because you hit a stud or two when you were screwing the plywood to the wall -- plus, as you mentioned, the floor is functioning as support.

In my 100 year old apt. I have had a leak, and have actually seen the wall opened up and observed the structure. It's best to treat it as a brick or concrete wall with about a 1" covering, which is the lathe and plaster. Pilot holes are good; the lathe and plaster will hold most pictures; but for heavy mirrors or shelves, or cabinets, you need to use whatever system you would use for a concrete wall.

The good thing about not having studs is that they don't govern where you hang stuff.

If you use a big masonry bit, and sink a big bolt or screw, anything will stay up.

The trade-off for all this work is that you can have a smooth, cool plaster wall with a finish much more elegant than you can achieve with sheetrock.

We use the 3m Command hooks and they really hold. Each pack clearly notes how much weight each hook will hold. (And check the weight of whatever you're hanging on a scale, It's really impossible to guesstimate weight by picking the object up.)

Those 3M picture tabs look like the perfect solution here at the office... I'm still scraping giant tabs of velcro from the walls, as carefully as possible, because it DOES pull the paint and plaster off when removed. And our walls are just barely framed drywall. Thanks for the tip!

I wouldn't use command hooks for shelves, unless it is only for feathers or marshmallows.

As mentioned above, molly bolt a great solution for drywall. My Ikea Lack wall shelves hold up nicely. I never have to worry about falling.

You can always ask people at your hardware store to pick the proper anchor for you. You'd need to know the wall type and asset the weight you'll put on the shelves.

I hope this video helps!
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-put-up-shelves-on-dry-wall-or-plasterboard

Anne at D16 -

THANK you! Lathe! I knew I was onto something, but you're right... AND you're right, methinks it's really the studs that have made it as sturdy as it is, but yes, my main point was the FLOOR thing is what really was making it work well.

I recently hung a 32" LCD TV on a mortar & lathe wall which I have read is a big no no. Molly and toggle bolts were crumbling the wall before i even got them through so I knew this would not work.
My solution? I took a piece of plywood and fixed it to the wall with normal screws on each corner and a quick epoxy between the wood and the wall. I then used the provided screws with the mount and drilled them through the plywood into the wall behind. This provided added security when hanging the mount and TV.
Perhaps you can create a plywood fronting for your shelves to mount on as I did for the TV mount... a long enough screw will go through the plywood, the plaster, and rest into the lathe behind it (about 4 inches in my case)

I can warn you not to use epoxy. We have a 150 year old house with crumbling plaster and I thought we were very clever using mighty putty to put up our shelves...until they came crashing down - the mighty putty held; the plaster did not. Now not only do we not have shelves, but there is a huge hole in our plaster walls.

Concrete Screws!

I live in an old apartment building with brick directly behind the lathe/plaster walls. The best advice I got when we moved in was to use concrete screws if we wanted to attach anything to the walls. So far I have not had any problems with anything hanging on the walls, including the gigantic mirror directly above the fireplace. Oh, and the hint about painters tape is so right on, I wish I would have discovered that in the beginning.

To figure out what you should do here, you really need to understand what your walls are. What they aren't: plaster. Plaster is a finish material. It will no more hold a screw than sheetrock will, whether or not you hit the lath behind it. If your walls are frame behind the plaster, you need to find the studs. If they are masonry, you need a masonry anchor as described by other commenters here.

Is there a utility room or other unfinished room where you can see the back of the wall? Anywhere you can poke your head in with a flashlight and maybe get an idea of the wall's construction? You may have mini-studs--furring strips, basically--between the brick and the plaster if it's a brick building. If it's frame, the studs will likely be either 16" or 24" on center, possibly 20", so if you can figure it out, you have good odds of hitting them once you find the first one.

Whatever you do, for God's sake do not just go putting a kazillion screws into hundred-year-old plaster. It will be destroyed, and whether or not you care about the irresponsibility of that, it will create crumbly plaster dust that will just keep coming and coming.

You could fill the drilled hole with a chemical anchor and then drill another hole when the compound has hardened.