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Their reproduction Nelson cigar lamps are top notch as well. I got a large one from them last year and have been very happy with it.

I'm just not okay with Modernica--they are capitalizing on someone else's intellectual property, and anyone who is an artist and creator should be a bit offended. This goes beyond paying homage to someone else's great idea.

People who take issue with authenticity or intellectual property concerns probably would not/should not shop at Modernica. But the quality of their goods is far better than that coming from lesser manufacturers (who are also infringing on the copyright--badly). And the price-points are significantly less-stratospheric than the properly licensed pieces (from Herman Miller, etc). Manufacturers like Modernica help fulfill the "WR" promise of outfits like DWR. And that is the bottom-line--access to good design OPTIONS at a lower price. It's a free-market economy. If you object philosophically, don't patronize the business. But don't patronize everyone else for exercising their right to do so. Many people who live in the real world have Cristal tastes on Olde English 800 budgets. And, in those cases, a reproduction will fill the need nicely. [On a side note, PAPER Magazine addressed this same issue a few years ago, using Ted Muehling's design for a hairclip as an example. Interesting reading.]

i actually have beef with their (ny) staff, not their products. i've been into that store in soho too many times to count and every single time i've been treated like absolute dirt. i know it's sort of a high design thing (i've been treated that way at moss every time, too) to act really cool and snooty, but it really gets old after awhile.

even when i went looking for help while writing a piece for a major ny publication, it did nothing. i still got the old "oh.....do you want something?" and a sneer.

ugh.

at least troy around the corner has a nice staff.

d*s

I recently purchased the eames rocker from their website. It's gorgeous. Not terribly comfortable, but what did I expect with fibreglass?

Reef

I believe that stores like Modernica are more true to the ideas of modernism. There's a reason why the furniture is made out of fiberglass and plywood. "The best design at the cheapest price for the most people." Sound familiar.

Herman Miller and DWR are doing us all (designers included) injustice selling this stuff for thousands. I'd bet Charles Eames rolls over in his grave everytime someone buys a plywood chair for $600.

Amen to Clinton above. I go off on this tirade to anyone who will listen. Selling furniture that was intended to be affordable to the average person for stratospheric prices is insulting. It's like reselling food someone donated to the homeless. Well okay not quite but it still sucks.

I salute IKEA and compadres for at least trying to meet the ideals of good design for good prices. Most of the "designer" companies just price everything for decorators to buy for their rich clients, be they individuals or companies. "Oh it's expensive? It must be a classic!"

Now if I could only bend plywood in my small NYC apartment...

I'm new to buying furniture, and don't understand why anyone would object to, for example, Modernica's
Eames Eiffel Plastic Side Chair ($239) v. DWR's Eames Eiffel Plastic Side Chair ($199).

I see the Herman Miller site provides a link to the DWR site to buy this chair (as well as other Eames chairs), and that the chair is cheaper at DWR than at Modernica. In Modernica's favor, however, is the huge variety of colors. Are the two chairs materially different in any other way?

Thanks in advance.

Jay-

The DWR / Herman Miller reissue is made from polypropylene, the Modernica version is made from the original chopped strand fiberglass, supposedly on the original tooling. The runners are a little different too.


As to Modernica "stealing intellectual property" or whatever, how long have the Eameses been dead now? Not to be flip, but I doubt they mind at this point. There used to be something called "public domain" in this country, where works would be protected by copyright for a fair period of time, after which they were up for grabs. Anyone can publish "Romeo and Juliet" without getting approval and paying a royalty to the Shakespeare family trust. That system worked fine until large media corporations (e.g. Disney) realized some of their biggest revenue generators (e.g. Mickey Mouse) were about to enter the public domain, whereby Disney wouldn't be able to make any more money from them. So they got the laws changed. Since then, the laws have gone further and further to protect intellectual property rights holders (see the DMCA, which makes copying a DVD a *felony*).

The Eames chair wasn't protected by copyright, since it's not a written work. It would fall under "trade dress" protection, which is roughly similar. Modernica is presumably allowed to produce their chairs because HM didn't adequately protect their intellectual property rights back when they had the chance. Too bad for them.

As a designer, I can say that once I'm dead, I would be happy if my works were still popular enough to enter the public domain. And I hope my kids won't be counting on the money from the royalty checks.

i've been in there dozens of times, too (in soho) but i haven't found the staff unhelpful at all. they may have more of a "hands off" approach to their customers which doesn't bother me at all, but i found that once i've asked for help or have questions, they are right there. i agree with enrique -- if you aren't a purist, but can't afford stratospheric prices elsewhere and want interestingly designed pieces, modernica has some good options. and let's be honest, they aren't so inexpensive, but i think they have a lot going for them in terms of design and quality.

DWR tends to be more expensive overall and i've become increasingly turned off by their being EVERYWHERE. the "within reach" part of their name needs modification. and i am sooooo tired of their catalogues that end up in my mailbox every two weeks. maybe if they cut down on their paper expenditures, they could reassess their prices. anyhow, i vote for modernica.

I think to assume that "modernism" and "accessible, affordable design for the masses" are of the same origin in thinking is not quite right. Sure, perhaps the Eameses (Eamsi?) thought that way, but I don't think the "design for the masses" mentality was/is inherent in every modernist design. I think it's one of the things that actually set them apart.

Some of the savvy mid-centurists like Russell Wright understood that in the magnanimous campaign to get "design to the people", they could stand to make quite a bit of money. Cuz there were so many people.

I also think it's unfair to characterize the Eames/Knoll/etc. reissues as failed attempts to "democracize" design these days, since by today's standard they are not the cheapest way to produce furniture, and believe it or not, not enough of it is being manufactured to benefit from volume efficiencies (as Eames originally intended/counted on). Sure, the cachet also drives the prices, but it's not that alone.

I've said it before here, but everytime somebody *does* try to bring "design to the masses" these days, the audience tends to get all up in arms about how it's a sad homogenization of style...

I agree that Ikea is actually a highly successful "modern" example of what Charles and Ray attempted to do. Yet it seems to have its fair number of detractors by many who champion the original Eames cause...

And I think if the Eameses were alive and kickin', they be working in roto-molded something or other and would have their very own Target commercial... then there'd be those too snooty to buy it, since it was from Target...

As far as Modernica and its knock-offs/copies, I am torn. I think their prices are still out of reach of many, so whether its "real" or not is still a moot point. And I think it sad they are basing their reputation solely on the repurposing of other people's designs. I take greatest offense to them using the Eames name, and not sure there aren't actually more protections offered by those who hold the licensing to the Eames name (versus the perhaps poorly protected designs...)

And say what you will about DWR, but they are true cahmpions of design in all aspects of their existence. Founder Rob Forbes is one of the good guys.

modernica is symptomatic of "modern design" that sprang from mass production and cheap new materials. so now i have to pay $380 for a chair that cost about $30 to manufacture, just because it's good design!?! they're not even comfortable!

please. case study was some great happening in the history of the mechanics of living? i truly feel sorry for the lemmings that buy into this cult of design and it's mass-produced yawns. i would much rather pay someone the same money to build a beautiful chair that fit my body, and didn't pollute, by the way. furniture that was made by someone i actually met.

Propper - You could find someone to build you a quality chair that fit your body for under $500 bucks and looks great. How about a bean bag, you bean bag.
And all you other guys: If you want cheap furniture go to Ikea or West Elm. Modernica brings it! Plus you can customize, top that.

re intellectual property, it was my understanding (as one who has dealt with modernica since the 1990s) that they're one of the few out there selling legit herman miller/eames furniture, not knockoffs. the eames chair you buy this week from modernica isn't a "reproduction," exactly, it is an eames chair made in 2005 as opposed to 1955.

but i've heard they've had some problems with HM lately or that HM has branched out to other sales channels, like DWR...

ikea does have the right idea. too bad all of their stuff is poorly made, lasts five minutes, and looks like absolute junk in your apartment (except their kitchens)...

note to patrick (the other one): they (Modernica) haven't been able to use the Eames name for several years now. "Case Study" is as close as it gets, so obviously HM's attorneys have been somewhat successful...as for how "legit" their products are, that depends on who you talk to. It would be presumptuous for anyone to say what Charles and Ray would think of Modernica selling their designs or if they'd be rolling over in their graves at the prices Herman Miller/DWR charges (more likely they'd be astounded at the price of real estate in the Pacific Palisades). I would imagine the Eames Foundation still gets royalties from the sales from HM, since HM was the original licenced manufacturer; if this was Europe there'd be much more protection afforded to their work. Knock-offs have been around for a long time (anyone remember Palazetti?), and some are quite good, while others are clearly inferior. If a Les Paul made by Gibson floats your boat more than one made by (name your cheap imitator), then likely you'll be happy to pay extra for the real thing. for more blah blah on this, check out: http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0600/enterprise.htm

Basically you are going to get what you pay for. Herman Millers furniture is of the highest quality manufacture you can get. They are also extremely efficient in their production. If you think a company like Modernica can sell the same quality chair for less $ you're crazy. Herman miller doesnt make their money off shell chairs. The furnish entire corporate offices and hospitals with all of their systems furniture. Shell chairs are small potatoes for them. They probably make more off one corporate account than some of these companies make in years. Herman Miller "For The Home" is like a little side project for them. Granted the modernica chairs are probably very well made, Herman miller is still top notch quality. So it is about finding the balance that is right for you, quality vs. price. Ikea and west elm are both very inexpensive and their pieces will last a couple of years if you are lucky(assuming it doesnt break in the car ride home). so stick it.

Those HM polyprolene Eames armshell chairs look pretty cheap. I remember seeing one in Conran's before DWR had them, and being kind of shocked that Conran's was selling them, not realizing they were fully-licensed reproductions. It's like the Vitra repros of the Panton chairs. They look like children's furniture, not the sophisticated, swanky, shiny, bell-bottomed originals.

Modernica's "Eames" shell chairs are made of wonderfully shiny, fibrous fiberglass. Not being a collector, but liking a look, I was thrilled to pick up a couple. They are gorgeous. The shells look like the rear end of a shapely woman in a skirt.

Also got a "Nelson" day bed chaise from Modernica in a lipstick red - saucy! It's damn comfortable, a beautiful piece of furniture, and there are always territorial battles over the "corner."

Curious, though: how is the process of mold-injecting polypropylene less polluting than mold-injecting fiberglass? They're always touting that in the DWR blurbs for the chairs. Curious...

Those HM polypropylene Eames armshell chairs look pretty cheap. I remember seeing one in Conran's before DWR had them, and being kind of shocked that Conran's was selling them, not realizing they were fully-licensed reproductions. It's like the Vitra repros of the Panton chairs. They look like children's furniture, not the sophisticated, swanky, shiny, bell-bottomed originals.

Modernica's "Eames" shell chairs are made of wonderfully shiny, fibrous fiberglass. Not being a collector, but liking a look, I was thrilled to pick up a couple. They are gorgeous. The shells look like the rear end of a shapely woman in a skirt.

Also got a "Nelson" day bed chaise from Modernica in a lipstick red - saucy! It's damn comfortable, a beautiful piece of furniture, and there are always territorial battles over the "corner."

Curious, though: how is the process of mold-injecting polypropylene less polluting than mold-injecting fiberglass? They're always touting that in the DWR blurbs for the chairs. Curious...

I am looking for a pair of ladies chairs by Zanuso made by Arflex in the 1950's.

Anyone got some of the Modernica ESU shelving?

I need to get a serious amount. HM (and Vitra in the UK) only do a pre-designed unit, whereas Modernica offer the option to design a whole custom made oufit. Can anyone offer opinions on it?

To Paul -- check out Modern Wood Works website. Their quality is as good as Modernica but 20%-25% less expensive, their shipping is significantly less, and they let you build a completely custom unit (even different dimensions if you want).

And yes, Modernica quality is top notch, and when it isn't their replacement is quick and easy.

Bradley J, I completely disagree about the quality of Modern Wood Works' ESUs. A friend of mine ordered a couple, and they are very poor in quality and the scale is all wrong. Modernica used to manufacture the units for Herman Miller, but I think HM wanted a bigger piece of the pie. The Herman Miller company needs to be reminded that it is just a label -- I acutally spoke to an HM representative who heatedly told me that Modernica's furniture is "not real!" Why were the ESUs "real" when Modernica manufactured them and Herman Miller sold them with their label slapped on?

I'm tempted to get a blah button sofa from DWR since their price points are about the same as Crate and Barrel and Pottery Barn (and a white bed on sale for $399 is competitive with the Milano bed at ... Big Apple Futon!)
...anyway... I'm thinking about dwr because I really can't afford George Smith even during their semiannual showroom sale ...tch - and did anyone notice that Williams Sonoma has a horchow looking orange tufted sofa!?? - anyway, I noticed that dwr's sofas are just foam in zippered cases. That means that their margins must be more profitable than PB and Restoration Hardware who have to pretend to be George Smith aspiring. Does this mean that with a dwr $1500 sofa, I would just be getting a firmer class of foam than a $999 Ikea couch?

A few responses/comments--
Why is polypropylene better than fiberglass? Polypro is recyclable and doesn't readily degrade during regrind/melt, allowing it to be used in the same/similar application multiple times, rather than downcycled to a plastic park bench, etc. Fiberglass is nasty to work with for the mfg employee and ultimately headed to the landfill--not environmentally responsible and a continued demand on diminishing oil and land resources.

The HM relationship w/ Modernica failed because of choices Modernica made--enough said.

As to prices today for molded plywood pieces, vs. 40s--has anyone looked at compounded inflation for most quality products? Look what was paid for a good handbag, fine briefcase, suit of clothes, house(!), or even a bottle of Coke, etc., in '40s and compare to today. It's inflation, pure and simple. And don't forget HM is still paying several percent design royalty, gifting large sums to foundations, supporting design schools, etc., and plowing tens of millions in to new research and design--unlike the knock-off makers, who are in it for the quick buck.

Re: HM or any original mfr simply slapping their label on the designer's work--clearly some don't understand how products get from concept to market. Designers design, while mfrs (their design engineers, mfg engineers, production people, etc.) collaborate with the designer in turning an idea into reality. The mfr/collaborator rightly shares credit and ownership in the final design and product.

Closing thought: Why is it plagiarists are universally villified, but knockoff makers are held by at least some as perfectly acceptable?

I find these posts so utterly boring, splitting hairs, & s**t stirring. If you like it buy it, if you don't like it you don't have to purchase it:) I feel like some of the posters are communists or socialists that have a bias against industry or something. I live in Santa Cruz so I'm very familiar with the anti-corporate vibe. If anything, what we should really be concerned with is really crummy knock offs not Modernica-they're a great company. As far as what the Eames would be thinking if they were here-who knows. This is 2006, not 1956. They might actually applaud the ability to make choices to fit a wide demographic (excluding horrible repros of course).

duncan, if the posts are boring, don't read them. in fact, get off the site. it's not for you. you're not welcomed here.

One thing of note about the Eames (as opposed to many other designers) is that they were very explicit about creating a guest/host relationship. Like a good host at a party, they wanted everyone to have the best experience possible when using their furniture. This is often used as the prime argument against unlicensed use of their designs. However - with Modernica two arguments can be made.

The first is that Modernica - by using the original materials, in the original manner, on the original tooling and machinery - is keeping true to the Eames original plan. It can be said that Herman Miller, by changing the material and the design (integrating the shockmounts) of the polypropelene chairs, is actually changing the guest/host relationship established by the Eames.

Or, it can be argued, that the Eames were constantly modifying their furniture. The fiberglass chairs were an extension of the problem they attempted to solve with the plywood chairs- creating a seat out of a single material. The plywood chairs were later given metal spines, and in 1971, the plywood was replaced with upholstered plastic seats & backs. The fiberglass chairs were also modified and improved through the years. Therefore- Herman Miller can be seen as continuing the Eames willingness to move with the times.

My personal opinions: The polypropelene chairs are not continuing the Eames tradition. I own 5 vintage fiberglass - it has a luster, a character, a life to it. The fiberglas (tho toxic) has a beautiful organic quality - similar to the various figurations of wood grain. The poly chairs are textured, accumulate dirt, and are dull. I support Modernica (except for their prices). Its almost cheaper to buy a vintage fiberglass shell than to buy a new one from M. Altho with M you get your choice of color :-D

Happy Sitting everyone!

We ordered thousands of dollars of furniture from modernica and found ourselves frustrated with the service. While the manufacturing is good, their customer service and communication is lacking tremendously. I don't recommend buying anything via the internet from them.

I've had much better service from DWR.

I own five 50s hm shell chairs. I paid less than $200 for each of them (example $20 for 2 side chairs one yellow one gray). If you are patient you can find a great deal for the original. Patience is the key to a well furnished home, otherwise you end up with a showroom look instead of a unique space.

The fiberglass chairs form Modernica are not enviro friendly. do you know how long that type of fiberglass will take to break down in a landfill. The Herman Miller chairs can be recycled. Also the showroom in NY laughed and said its about the look,when I asked if the teak was from a eco friendly souce and not from a clear cut logging co in Brazil. How is it Ikea can offer eco friendly furniture dirt cheap, but when you spend money on furniture at a place like modernica. They could care less about our planet

Thanks MJ or whomever you are, but I am absolutely welcome here apparently (feel free to read my other posts), & I'll be spending as much time in here as I want:) Take your own advice buddy (now toodle off & buy your fake Emeco navy chair made in North Korea).