apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I think eating an animal to survive and killing an animal for the sole purpose of decorating your room are two very different concepts. I don't think the "I'm conflicted because I'm a meat eater" concept holds water. But this is coming from a vegetarian, so what do I know.

I just wonder what people think what *should* be done with fur. I don't agree with trophy hunting at all, but a relic from another time is different, to my mind. I also really wonder why people who are up in arms about fur in decorating don't make a peep about leather furniture.

Hate it, fake or real.

I'm not particularly for or against it ethically. I do love a pop of zebra print though. I think the stool in the photo from Elizabeth and Kevin's house tour (below) is a great compromise.

I just bought a cow hide...

I think the reason we all reacted to the Tiger hide was because of the problems there have been with tiger conservation. I mean I know that she had had it for a long time but to me it represented how tigers first began to dwindle in numbers...

I know I'm being a bit of a hypocrite by buying a cow hide, but I do eat beef, and I do wear leather so I don't know...

How about a 100% wool rug depicting a roadkill?

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/10/14/the-splat-rug.html

Hate the look, would never use it, so the ethics rank a distant second. However, supporting the aesthetic could, in some way, I suppose, create demand for the real, poached product, so in that sense, I guess I'm against it for everyone, not just myself.

Ditto comment by Pixie. I can't wait until this fad is over.

Oh for cryin' out loud. I'm tired of these types of posts.

There's a group of people who abhor using leather or feathers or any other animal body parts in anyway in their homes, on their person, or otherwise.

Then there's the group who sits on the fence. They won't wear furs, but they'll wear leather shoes and belts and might have a leather couch.

On the other side are the people who feel that whatever makes you happy is fine.

This will never ever change.

Could we PLEASE make it a design issue? In other words, "whether it's a faux skin or a real skin, what do you think of zebra stripes?"

This post is just another invitation for petty bickering, snarky comments, and grandstanding on animal rights issues. Been there, done that, let's move on.

The problem with pretending it is ethical to use 'vintage' skins is that it encourages people to want to emulate the look, which necessitates killing animals currently alive to do so. Also, all that 'zebra' is cow and often pony. As in, you are killing horses today to pretty up your floor, to emulate real zebras killed a hundred years ago and being used as vintage skins.

I don't think "eating an animal to survive" versus "killing an animal for the sole purpose of decorating your room" is a valid comparison - nearly everyone who eats meat (certainly those we're talking about in this context, who are deciding about whether or not to use animals in decor!) does so by choice, not because it is necessary to their survival. We have to eat to survive; we do not necessarily have to eat meat to survive. I'd say the more relevant questions are whether or not you believe it is ethical to kill animals for your pleasure - be it gastronomic or aesthetic; what should be done with animal hides and the like that exist already, and perhaps whether faux alternatives contribute to a culture of cruelty. One other note: several of the "zebra" skins pictured are clearly printed cowhides, which to many people are more acceptable than actual zebra hides, because they are a by-product of the meat industry instead of the result of killing of a threatened wild species. Many people find the farmed vs. wild distinction very important, while others think that the by-product argument, which is popular among those who defend the use of leather in clothing and furniture, is an attempt to deflect one's own moral responsibility onto others (i.e., "they're eating meat; I'm just using the scraps") in an unjustifiable way. A related question, important to those who do not think it is inherently wrong to use animals for food, etc, is how humanely the animals are treated - at Whole Foods they have created a foundation to support the humane treatment of farm animals, with the idea that an animal that has a happy life and a humane death is not necessarily "mistreated" by the fact of being eaten after that death; particularly since being eaten is the natural fate of most animals in the wild. There are a lot of aspects to this question. If you're really interested in expanding your moral thinking to encompass animals, you should check out the work of Peter Singer.

With all the synthetic options available, why someone would choose to use an actual dead animal is troubling and puzzling to me. I do like the look of fur (faux) and the zebra print is a cool graphic statement. But use the non-animal flesh version!

/\/\ Ditto kimg924

But doesn't the use of even the faux version just encourage the use of the real?

I hate the look of it (especially the zebra and cow hides), so I would never get it.
I get very angry though, when I see someone using fake hide and thinking it´s green! It´s made from artificial materials, that are wasteful to make, impossible to recycle and just totally un-green.

I think cow rugs look awesome with wooden floors and modern furniture. I think bleaching and painting zebra stripes on them is tacky - the natural spots and stripes are much more interesting, while zebra wiffs of 80's bachelor pad. I also think that benefits of cow rugs is that they are durable, biodegradable and were not created using indentured child labor like many woven rugs made in China or Pakistan. If making a choice between suffering of a cow or suffering of a kid I will always stand on the side of the kid. But overall, on these types of posts, I am down with kimg924 - this is a design forum.

I love animal-skin PATTERNS, but find actual dead-animal skins a bit creepy. Stark's leopard-print carpet is great; so is zebra-pattern wallpaper or tiger/leopard velvet upholstery.

nuni - hide rugs are not pony hides. The term "pony" is often used for hide rugs to describe the type of hair and coloring- not an actual horse. It's all cowhide.

If you´re using faux fur, you are helping no one but yourself, I guess. You can tell yourself: Oh well, I´m not the evil one, who has a dead animal at home. That´s just hypocritical. Don´t use/buy it at all, and don´t encourage making this crap... In this way, getting an OLD real zebra or cow (or tiger...) skin is better for everyone, as no one has to make it from some shitty materials (like the faux fur) and it´s a natural thing. Once it falls apart, you can get rid of it better than of some plastic crap.

Agree 100% with kimg924. I come to AT for discussion and ideas on design. Can we please stick to that? It is bad enough being inundated with "sustainability" and "green" design--which is at least pertinent--but please lay off the socio-political crap.

I am with Kimg924

this post is lame, the discussion is played out, and anyone who feels strongly about it isn't going to change their mind today.

And I'm with Mand@...
anyone who's curious about what we think about animal skins/fur has only to read the dozens of conversations we've had about the topic already.

This is not a conversation we would've had if there had been an internet fifty years ago. Things DO change and it's because people engage in DISCOURSE about the merits of, say, killing animals for food, or pleasure, or this year's design trend. If you don't want to discuss it, fine, but don't act like the status quo is permanent. It's not.

I agree with screenname, overall it is a very complicated issue, and everyone has their opinions. I think before anyone buys animal skins they should research how it was acquired (humanely? hunted? is it endangered? what happened to the rest of the animal?) and be ok with that. You must realize that people seeing it might have a different opinion than you.

Now, i have worked with taxidermy and there are some very important rules you should follow, if you have taxidermy (because that was in the original post)

Taxidermy should never be in an area that food is consumed or prepared, around small children or pets. Never never!

Skins should

sorry for that typo at the bottom

although i'm a vegan, i don't believe killing animals is wrong.

killing to eat is one thing. so, if you choose to decorate using, say, leather from a cow, fine, b/c the meat was being used. i do think it's kind of weird to kill an animal solely for it's skin or fur & let the rest go to waste. it's just a sign of respect for life to me, that's all. just don't waste.

as for using old skins, can certainly see the logic, but these things can spark a demand, especially when featured in design articles. & i'm sure the new, illegal ones will be cheaper & easier to come by than the vintage ones.

i don't really find it right or wrong. i personally find it kind of gross, but that's a personal thing. i sort of think of a zebra just as i would my own pets & i wouldn't want to see them turned into a rug. some people might, i guess.

I think this topic is relevant. Design is about how we live and represents who we are. Just like the clothes you wear.

I like the graphic statement of zebra stripes. But I would prefer a fake. I've seen the real thing up close and it is creepy. The head is still attached and so is the tail. It's all flattened out like zebra roadkill. Nasty!

I personally don't agree with wasting an animals life for the sake of design or fashion. At least with a cow the entire animal is used, head to toe. There is no waste. Where do you think the term "Cash Cow" comes from. There is no need to eat zebra just like there's no need to wear mink. We do it because we can, because we are at the top of the food chain. Beef and Down feathers work just fine.

Go, Jezebella....
except...
no one is suggesting the status quo doesn't change and the chances of opinions changing since we last discussed this (last week and the week before that and the week before that one, etc.) are pretty slim.

The zebra rug being used so frequently is one of the main reasons I will NOT use it. I'm sorry, I'm for creative, original design ideas and not here to recycle a fad. Especially when it is so graphic, bold, and obvious. Love the pattern of zebra print, will get it some other way if I want it.

I'm (mostly) a meat eater, but I agree with petro and mariegael - to me, killing an animal for food is not the same as killing an animal as a sport or to make it into a decoration. I know some argue that humans don't NEED to eat meat, but I find the evidence in our anatomy indicates that we are designed to. (Which does not mean that vegetarians are doing anything wrong - this is the same as someone who chooses not to have children, like me. As humans with our own wills we have the option of going against our design.) So I find decorations made from dead animals to be pretty tasteless. I do like animal "prints," but those don't require that any animals die.

Setting aesthetics aside for a moment, if you do choose to decorate with taxidermy, hides, and the like, keep in mind that the mere possession of any part or product of an endangered species is illegal in the United States. That would include Mary's tiger rug referenced above as well as anything made of elephant ivory. There are very few exceptions to this law, even for antiques.

Vintage and antique plant and animal materials may also have been treated with arsenic to prevent bug infestation, by the way. That was pretty much the standard course of treatment for decades.

I'm not really for it or against it per se. My only hope would be that whoever is selling them, do it ethically and humanely.

I like zebra hides in theory, for their patterning, but can't quite get over the creepyness of the mane in person. Just an uncontrollable, visceral response (which I don't seem to have with cow hides).

Some vendors claim the killing of zebras are a form of population control to thin out herds. How to verify this, I'm not sure. I know first hand, in parts of South Africa they need to do controlled killing of gazelles on game reserves so that there is enough food for foraging, because sometimes the other wild animals just can't kill them fast enough themselves. Also many years back, Angel Island in the SF Bay Area had to have a deer hunting season because the deer were dying of starvation due to overpopulation.

(oh....grammar typos "is" a form of population control.)

As a vegan, I hate it. All of it. Bad bad karma.

Oh and ponyhide is actually just that. Clearing things up that's all. Do your research. Education is power.