First and foremost, tacky is subjective. Tacky is someone's negative and critical perception of another person's taste, which is, in the end, just not nice. In Provincetown, MA, we and the kids in years past, walked past a front yard display of tons of barbie dolls all dressed up. This could be called tacky...we call it wonderful and it draws big smiles. Tacky is judgmental and critical and all things negative. Again, it's not nice. It's harmful, not harmless.

Another example, when I was living with my mother, the next door neighbors had a plethora of large, plastic, decorative objects that peppered the front lawn. This showed spirit. Yes, tacky can be translated to spiritedness I think. It's fine. It's a window into who one is. As any decorative theme is. It ranks up there with the best of interior design, IF the design expresses who one is in a meaningful way. Then, it's all good tacky or serious.

In most things I like minimal, simple design.

But sometimes I like "tacky" things! A lot of "tacky" things are full of unselfconscious joy. On Christmas trees I like colored lights and unmatching ornaments that mean something. For me a Christmas tree is about "happy", not about "tasteful".

Sometimes I think trying too hard to be "tasteful" can be the most tacky thing of all (for example, McMansions).

It's interesting how a meditation on the question of tacky flipped over into a so far brief series of posts about minimal decor that is so tasteful is lifeless. Perhaps taste-free would be the better term.

As for Christmas trees, I thought there was an international accrod that decreed all brides, babies, and christmas trees are beautiful.

In my (limited) experience, comments about tacky almost always have have as their implicit premises class consciousness and snobbery. And even inverse snobbery.

I agree with JonathanB that tacky has implied class status (likewise with kitsch). However, when tacky is done right, it is glorious to behold and makes me smile! I think John Waters would certainly approve! Tacky is often better than bland, which makes no statement...blah.

I think true tackiness has more to do with behaviour than with status, belongings, or decorating.

when i first was allowed to decorate my own room (late teens) till about 22 i was fairly tacky. i'm not exactly sure why. i think most of it could be that i was attempting to be creative w/in the box of certain style that didn't work for me or sometimes people would convince me that certain things were pretty. at other times, my overly creative side would overwhelm me & i'd overdo it.

AT ANY CASE, i was still quite happy w/ the butt ugly crap i picked. hahaha i think that's probably the most important.

now, i believe i've made more mature choices that will endure, fit my personality, the function of my life, & still manage to hold up against my high impact art. that makes me happier.

maybe in design & tackiness ignorance actually is bliss ... ugly bliss, but bliss just the same. :P

I think something that must be remembered is that many things that are now considered tacky were once stylish.

I think in a way, something deemed tacky displayed in front of a house can be kitsch indoors or in the back garden, where it's intended for personal enjoyment.

Garden ornaments are a good example. If they're in the front yard, you're saying "admire my pretty gnomes!" but if they're in your backyard, you're knowingly concealing them from the mass public, because you actually know they're tacky, which makes them kitsch.

Of course there's a class element involved. The inference is that the lower classes don't know that something is tacky, not that they know and they love it despite this.

P: And many things that are now considered stylish were once tacky!

:)

I disagree with the class element. I tend to think places like Donald Trump's gilded home are tacky, and he's one of the richest men in the world. That's real gold.
I do tend to agree with the first post though, that classifying things as tacky tends to be more harmful than hurtful. What happens though if you have a neighborhood, you live in a regular town in the good ol' U.S.A. and your neighbor has a big, what you consider tacky, ugly, golf mailbox, made of plastic, and it's huge and an eyesore. It makes you feel gross everytime you drive by it and makes you feel like your neighborhood, which previously looked all the same and was neat and pretty, has been cheapened. This happened to my grandma years ago and I remember how up in arms she was. It did have to do with "class", she felt she lived in a "nice" neighborhood and didn't want crap like that around, but she was old fashioned and just thinks you don't do those things. It made her really distraught. It happens everywhere, people feel disrespected because someone doesn't care about how they feel about "junk" in their neighborhood. Luckily for my grandma, she lived in one of those controlled places and they promptly told the person to remove it or else and they did and it the golf ball went away. But what is the alternative for others? Move?

Live within your means.

"Chances are it was born in Florida"?!?!?

Margo writes:

"I disagree with the class element. I tend to think places like Donald Trump's gilded home are tacky, and he's one of the richest men in the world. That's real gold."

The Donald might be rich, but he's not upper class. Class used to be about where your family came from, but I think now it's much more about taste. It's just as exclusionary as it used to be, but you can fake it. Those are Anichini linens, right?

That's why we're more critical as a society about "tackiness" today... because people are supposed to know better. We'll forgive an ugly mailbox in front of a trailer but not in a middle-class neighborhood.

One person's tackiness is another person's lack of affect.

I mean lack of affectedness(!)

Tim R writes "Live within your means."
Is that to me? What if I choose to live below and hoard money? Is that really bad?

Margo,

Never mistake money/wealth for class. Trump is pure tack IMHO. He is new money, which lacks class. And often "old money" lacks actual money but still has class. You may want to read, "A Guide to the American Class System, ..." by Paul Fussel. It is a funny look at the American class system.

Actually the term “tackiness” is all about class. Unlike Europe, America had no official class system – not even money. In a country where anyone could get rich off rum-running or a gold strike those who considered themselves superior needed to create some sort of marker to distinguish themselves. They chose taste.

You might be able to get rich overnight, but it takes time and experience to know when to wear diamonds, which fork to choose, and the conventions of opera. Of course, it also takes time to learn the conventions of rock’n roll or hip-hop, but yesterday’s pop culture always earns a patina. Kind of like antiques or vintage gee-gaws – which is why yesterday’s tacky evolves into today’s hot collectible.

And that’s why old money has status while the nouveau riche are tacky. Those who got there first established the rules for good taste. But hang around long enough and you too get to be old money with a shot at defining status.

Designers like Martha and Ralph Lauren got rich decorating the masses in the trappings of an east coast elite (as imagined by a couple of working class kids who desperately wanted admission to the club). Those two always make me think of Gatsby.

So Trump is the epitome of tacky. Ditto Paris Hilton. Heard the saying, “real money whispers?” Ostentation is tacky. But that's only true for the elites. Among the majority of Americans tacky is the new black.

I said he was tacky. I wish I had time to read, how do people find time to read? Between blogging, working 9 hours a day, keeping on top of bills, life, errands, I can't find time to read! And today I have to work on an illustration after blogging all morning ... :D

I have to defend Florida just a bit. As Carl Hiaasen once opined, there is nothing wrong with my state that a good hurricane wouldn't fix--oh, wait, that happened.

And, yes, the nutcases of the world tend to drip toward the south, ending up in America's little dangler, and, yes, we're in the headlines all the freaking time, from Anna Nicole's end to hanging chads to 600-lb. pigs that hump motorcycles out of arousal. But I've lived in Florida all of my life, enjoying the lack of a state income tax (booyah!) and the fact that today--February, mind you-- it is eighty degrees, breezy, and sunny, and the flamingoes in my neighbor's yard are not nearly as tacky as. . .oh, never mind.

We suck.

Continue on your quest into Florida, unearthing all of the tackiness we can give you amid a sea of day-glo bermuda shorts and black socks with sandals, and wear your Kevlar. It's getting more dangerous here by the day.

And I live five miles north of Disney, too. . .

Harumph!

Hmmm...I was born in Florida, so does that make me tacky?

Actually, I'm a huge fan of adding a touch of kitsch or "tackiness" in an otherwise perfectly tasteful environment. It reminds you not to take yourself too seriously.

If it matters, I think Psychoceramics fit into the "tacky" side of things, but I love them all the same. :D

tackiness is rooted in inauthenticity. tackiness is trying to hard. tackiness is faux luxury. tackiness is what happens when you let them see you sweat. tackiness is defensive.

kitsch, on the other hand, is warm, inviting, and funny. it may be in equally bad taste, but its spirit doesn't make you squirm. it's the difference between a garden gnome and a lawn jockey.

the thing about "old money" glamour is that it's got an organic quality, no matter how artificial it is (like versailles, for example). it's a monument to itself. there's an ease to it, an authenticity. there's a self-assurance there that's absent in your average pre-fabbed mcmansion. if you want glamour, you don't want to look like you're striving.

Hey Liz,

Just how old does money have to be before it's "authentic?"

I also think of tackiness in terms of behavior, not decorating. Tackiness is ungenerous or show-offy behavior, basically a failure to observe the golden rule, but demonstrated in a petty way--like brining a bottle of wine to someone's house for dinner, then, when it doesn't get consumed for dinner, *asking for it back.* Yes, someone did this at my house!

Another Florida-dweller here. But I'm in the Gulf Coast, which is actually somewhat tacky.

It's 75 today though. Worth it!

Cassandra--
re:"it takes time and experience to know when to wear diamonds, which fork to choose, and the conventions of opera."

And some correct-fork wielding, diamond-dripping opera savants are the least classy people around.

I just came from a crazy high-end art show, and the "elite" there think the world was made for them. Apparently, the phrase "excuse me" is not in their vocabulary.

Money does not buy taste. Nor does "being of a class" mean you necessarily *have* any.

cassandra-- i didn't mean the money had to be authentic, just the objects it buys. and i don't mean provenance, exactly.

i guess what i meant is that ostentation smacks of doubt--like you can't quite believe you made it, or you don't quite believe that anyone else believes you made it. or you don't believe you deserve it. in any case, it's protesting too much.

i think people who are accustomed to wealth have had the opportunity to develop habits of taste that the rest of us haven't, because they have the opportunity to buy things of such refined quality, they have to develop that kind of discernment. it's a muscle the rest of us never use. and they have rich parents to teach them and rich peers to reinforce it. that's what i mean by authenticity and ease.

but that's not to say only the rich can create beautiful homes, of course not! that's really just a matter of class (as in classiness) rather than the age of your wealth.

Concepts like "tackiness" come from people's desire to degrade others in order to feel secure about themselves. Some people can not know who they are if not in contrast to those around them. The term "tackiness" comes from people's obsession with anything outward rather than taking a look at themselves and defining who they are from within.

p.s. On a side note, this is my first time actively contributing to a site that I appreciate. It feels great!

Omigawd. This whole site is just one big sociology study.

It’s very American to determine class based on the notion that people who don’t know the social rules are inferior – regardless of the brass in pocket. For someone in the lower classes the rules might be covered by the “golden rule.” But manners become increasingly subtle and complex as you climb the social ladder.

You’ll notice that knowledge is always used as a way of demarcating class – which Liz picked up. It’s typically middle-class American that she doesn’t know what the word kitsch means, but she gets how it’s used to establish status. That’s why she delivers her misinformation with such a tone of authority – she knows the right side of the divide
Kitsch actually means garish, tasteless, or sentimental art. Those velvet clown paintings? That’s kitsch.

But when the owner of kitsch is self-aware enough to know that the velvet canvas is kitsch and display it ironically – change-o, presto, that’s po-mo wit. The status points come from displaying knowledge in a particular context.

Understanding irony in a culture that’s as earnest and judgmental as the American one automatically puts you in an elite group – someone well-educated. The sophisticated thinking and refined tastes that come with a good education are the only things that money can’t buy, promptly. They take years to acquire.

Incidentally, Patrick – using the term “class” in the way you did is, again, peculiarly American. Upper-class Brits are notoriously ill-mannered and eccentric. But in the U.K. they don’t connect manners, education, and money with status – they have an aristocracy to give them a pecking order.

Americans realized there is plenty of riff-raff with money, so they found a way to establish status in a supposedly classless society. They used taste.

Oy, there you go again with the sweeping (and not too flattering) generalization of Americans.

you guys seem to be skirting around some of the important issues.
cassandra was on to something when she raised the idea of inauthenticity, tacky or kitch objects by definition are products of a cheap sentimental sensibility, and are the mass produced products of a consumer culture... generally speaking.

there are exceptions, notably, objects that are cheaply sentimental but are not cheaply made or mass produced. if you know what i mean.

Patrick,

How is it that you’re unfamiliar with American history, literature, and idiom? What you think of as “sweeping generalizations” are actually facts.

The subject was tackiness and the word that originated in 19th century America. It’s a concept rooted in American culture which, contrary to what some Americans seem to believe, is not universally embraced. Particularly not by American artists and thinkers.

As for whether my ideas are flattering, I wasn’t aware one was required to flatter gullible Americans?

Oh, hey, that’s what people like Oprah are for, isn’t it?

i know what both words mean, and how they are used. kitsch does not carry the derogatory connotation that tackiness does. kitsch isn't something to aspire to, but it's lowbrow whereas tackiness is closer to vulgar.

Your facts may be correct, but the conclusions you derive from them smack of the same type of judgment you attribute so quickly to the Americans.

But this is not the only post where you have talked about Americans like this, so don't blame it on the word of the day...

(that was meant for Cassandra, not you Liz.)

Oh, for the love of god people, do stop parading your ignorance as if it's something to celebrate.

Damn Americans: always ready to claim the universal as your own. Tacky is everywhere ... including, quelle horreur, France. Velvet paintings, garden gnomes, tire 'sculptures', and all their cheerful cousins sell well all all around the world.

Cassandra I think it is time for you to go home and dust off your diamonds ... ROTFL

Why, Cassandra, no more room on your float?

I don't know who wrote the post on tackiness but i think it's very interesting that you have gone to florida to search for tacky in february.

How tacky!

LIked the recommendation of Fussell's book on Class. It's a classic.

Snobbery is a odd mixture of smugness, superiority, and lack of curiosity. In New England there is something called an inverse snob, that is someone who maintains that the lower classes are better, more authentic than the upper classes. The concept fuels any number of Hollywood comedies to this day.

I was unaware kitsch had a positive connotation, though it is certainly warm and fuzzy. Perhaps tacky is furless kitsch.

Although I've seen this done and done very well, generally mixing something taste-free into an otherwise tasteful environment to make that environment warm or accessible generally falls flat, when it doesn't look forced. It needs camp to work.

saying someone or something is tacky is someone from one class or culture ssserting his or her superiority over someone of a perceived inferior status, regardless of birth or money.

P2 what art show did you get snookered into anyway? I usually manage to do these sorts of things without even minor incident.

JB--

The Art Dealers Show on Park at 67th. No major incident, just an observation.

Yay for pink flamingoes and drink umbrellas and hawaiian shirts! Have fun and stop turning this Web site into something that's not fun.

I think that tackiness, or better, the lack of tackiness has more to do with artistic sensitivity than with money, education, or class. It seems more inborn than learned behavior, and all of us are guiltily tacky to some extent, at some time . Perhaps not in our material posessions, but definitively in the manner we treat people.

I like drinks monkeys myself. Though I've yet to meet a child who couldn't make half an hour pass playing with drinks umbrellas.

Patrick: we'll have to introduce you to a better class of art dealer/art collector.

Stop it with the 'old money' and 'new money'. It's just a way of saying 'I'm better than you even though I don't have what you have'. It's just based on jealousy, denial and negativity. And people who like to bring it up almost invariably are the 'no money'.

See, Margo thinks tacky things are fun. Bet she thinks they’re more democratic too. And nicer. Noting differences among people just isn’t nice.

Americans are uncomfortable talking about class because they’ve spent a few centuries pretending it doesn’t exist. They disguise class distinctions behind the concept of taste.

Using a term like tacky is all about elevating one’s own social status by laying claim to good taste – as defined by WASP-y values of the elite from the previous two centuries.

Incidentally, a lot of you were referring to Maxwell as having “class” and being “classy” – what did you think you were saying?

"...saying someone or something is tacky is someone from one class or culture asserting his or her superiority over someone of a perceived inferior status, regardless of birth or money."

... or national origin.

Sorry you don't have an empire to crow about any longer, Cassandra.

What makes you think I'm not an American? Just because airing ignorant opinions is valued in American culture it doesn't mean every Yank is ignorant.

Well, you always seem to have an "us and them" attitude to your posts, with "you" being the "us" and Ameircans being the "them."

So what *are* you, exactly? Give us some background please... like what breed your high horse is.

Hey JB-- it was just one stop on the art fair circuit this weekend, but thanks for the offer.

Patrick,

I realize you try to make everything personal, but I don't think someone's biography is all that meaningful. I'm interested in talking about ideas, not individuals.

It's that petty obsession with the personal that gets in the way of meaningful discussions. And leads to the ridiculous spat like the one that was raging on this site.

The discussion was about the word tacky. It originated in the 19th century and is a reflection of American cultural values. Specifically, the way the so-called classless society hides class behind discussions of taste.

You'll find that fact in any number of dictionaries, encyclopedias, and histories of the U.S. You should be able to figure it out yourself from the way in which you, and other Americans, use that word and terms like "classy."

If you have some information to the contrary -- something other than a personal swipe -- please, feel free to contribute it now.

Or, perhaps you could tell me what you think you are saying when you use the term classy?

I'm just (honestly) curious why your posts seem to always come from the "ugly American" perspective.

You yourself opened the door to the question by asking Yank "What makes you think I am not American?"

And I like to have some context in understanidng people's arguments. I think it helps the dialogue.

Please, I'm no big flagwaver all the time. But I *try* not to paint with as broad a brush as you typically seem to.

And, regardless of word origin, the words "class" and "classy" have evolved to have a wide variety of usage, interpretation and nuance.

Cassandra wrote: "It’s very American to determine class based on the notion that people who don’t know the social rules are inferior".

No, that's actually very European, specifically British, although I'm perfectly willing to let other nations jump in and claim the blame. A wide-spread social rule found in plenty of British literature is "if you don't have money, you are inferior". Cf. Dicken's childhood, esp. his father's period in debtor's prison, which was definitely a punishment for being poor.

Also: "But in the U.K. they don’t connect manners, education, and money with status – they have an aristocracy to give them a pecking order."

Yes they do: in the U.K., as most anywhere, if you don't have money, it's still difficult to keep up with the Joneses, or the Windsors, or whomever. If you are an immigrant, it's worse. I'd bet you any money that there are plenty of people who thought that Sarah Ferguson shilling for Jenny Craig was tacky, and she did it for the money. Although she came from a family less high up the nobility scale than Prince Andrew, it could be said that she has long been considered tacky by the British public who are notoriously ruthless when it comes to excoriating anyone of any sort of class who falls from grace.

If you want more examples of classicism not related to aristocracy as performed by Great Britain, please refer to articles regarding Ireland: treatment of its citizens by British state in social, political, and economic terms, 20thC and previous.

Oh, just because it was mentioned, I feel I have to say something about Hawaiian shirts (and Margo, I don't mean to critique what you said—you were making a light comment and I see it as that, but I think the aloha shirt is actually a great example of one of the dynamics involved with the word under discussion):

For me, the appropriation of the aloha shirt by mainland American culture is tacky. A lot of mainland US folks think aloha shirts are funny, kitschy, whatever you want to call it. In Hawaii, though, the shirts aren't worn with irony, especially by older generations. My granddad frequently dons his when he goes out for dinner; my uncle wears his to church. There is a certain kind of judgment in this kind of cultural appropriation. In this case, I'd have to say the judgment is driven by race and power.

So perhaps part of the tacky/kitsch factor is the removal of an item from its home culture, to be displayed and commented upon—and in many cases made fun of—by a different culture. I don't think that America is unique in having this problem.

L

I'm picturing Cassandra as having the voice of Stewie on Family Guy, and it's cracking me up.

On topic: an older relative once said of my apt "Everything is so tongue in cheek" - but I don't feel that way at all. For example, I have a collection of paint-by-numbers paintings that I genuinely think are beautiful, though I kind of pretend I know it's kitschy/tacky.

When I was younger, someone visiting my apt told me that they "loved" my apt because there was "so much to look at". That afternoon, I looked around with new eyes, and I thought I lived in a big den of tacky. I removed 85% of my items. I still miss them.
I wish I had listened to myself, held on to what I liked (and loved) instead of listening to someone elses opinion. Now, at 40+ I decorate with what I love, what works for my life, and I think it's in good taste. And that is all that matters really.

Okay, so let me get this straight. You think Dickens's father was an aristocrat? And you think Sarah Ferguson was a noble because her family worked for the royals and had money enough for her to be a Sloanie?

Hmmm.

Suddenly it becomes apparent why Americans believed Saddam Hussein had WMDs and masterminded 9/11.

List of Tacky:
Precious Moments figurines
Beany Baby collections
Artificial floral arrangements involving blue roses
Wallpaper borders with geese, ducks or hearts
Clear plastic furniture covers

and the ultimate spotted this morning...a car with a NRA sticker, a pirate flag flying from the trunk, a pack of camels in the front seat and a box of midol. LOL.

Touché!

Meant for Cassandra.

Cassandra,

I understand why P2 is questioning the personal context for your statements, because you write in a way that consistently distances you from "America" and "Americans." From that distance you are comfortable enough to communicate disdain and haugtiness. I think those of us who are Americans (and don't have a problem saying so) are naturally curious about from whence your attitude comes. Positing the idea that you might actually be American seems coy to me, though I can understand your reluctance to expose yourself. Even so, I have to ask: Why not stand in your shoes?

This thread is all about how context can be a powerful source of meaning and interpretation, so I second P2: do tell!

Lynn,as a former expat/resident of the UK I feel a bold waft of British snobbery from Cassandra. But in fact, it's so snobbish, I doubt she's actually from the Isles, because nobody I know - and I do know a fair number of minor aristos and public-schooled Sloane Square denizens - is quite that snobbish.

Maybe she's a deluded Anglophile, which is much, much worse.

But whatever she is... she's hopelessly middle class. Because nobody else cares about class!

*tor*

lucie--
That was Cassandra's car!!!

Out of curiosity, I just looked up 'tacky' in the Oxford English Dictionary. The earliest use found so far dates to 1862:

adj. Dowdy, shabby; in poor taste, cheap, vulgar. Also Comb., as tacky-looking adj. colloq. (orig. and chiefly U.S.).

1862 K. STONE Jrnl. 16 Feb. in Brokenburn (1955) 89 What a weary, bedraggled tacky-looking set they were. 1883 I. M. RITTENHOUSE Maud 262 Two little cards (with his name printed on them in gilt. Tackey? Ugh). [...etc. etc]

But Lynn's comment that "perhaps part of the tacky/kitsch factor is the removal of an item from its home culture, to be displayed and commented upon—and in many cases made fun of—by a different culture" seems spot on to me.

I'm coveting that plastic flamingo, though. :-)

Susie (a Brit and not a raging snob ... as far as I am aware)

Susie--
Ironically, I have one of those plastic flamingoes for sale, if interested. It's on eBay.

Patrick (t-o-o) - Going to have a look now! It all depends on size. I'm thinking for my garden. :-)

Dear Lorijo and M - I love you guys.

I think Jonathan Adler is the current king of kitsch. I must say, I've forgotten exactly what pastiche is - is that the word I'm trying to think of?

Usually tacky things make me smile - like garden gnome overload or Pauly Walnuts' house on "The Sopranos."

Other things I connote w/ tacky are behavorial - questions like "how much did you pay for this house?" Then there's wearing curlers in your hair to the grocery store. Sleeping with a friend's ex. Stealing someone else's thunder. Being self centered. Filling up Nantucket with ostentatious new houses and fencing off the beachfront from the rest of the neighborhood (the Carnegies never pulled that crap).

I agree, Trump is REALLY tacky. Like Liberace tacky.

Becky

Jonathan Adler is the current of turning kitch into absolute delish. His rooms look happy, wild, fun, semi-personal and yet they're beautifully composed. The problem MIGHT be if you buy certain ones of his pieces and don't know what to do with them, yourself. THEN... you could easily fall into the tacky trap.

Cassandra:

I did not say or imply that Dicken's father was an aristocrat. What I said was that he was a victim of the 19th century British practice of punishing the poor for not having money to pay their debts by removing certain freedoms. Being poor has been seen, in many societies, as being of a lower social or even moral caste. This is an example of classicism in the United Kingdom not related to or established by an aristocratic "pecking order".

And, I will admit that perhaps Sarah Ferguson wasn't the best example to use in terms of a classicism/aristocracy argument. However, she is related to British aristocracy and royalty through her father's family; I didn't use the word "noble" specifically because it connotes a value as well as a socio-political standing.

I also fail to see how my comments have led you to insult Americans, unless you are so rude as to assume I am American and therefore think it perfectly acceptable to express your disdain to me personally in a blatantly passive-aggressive way.

I will here say that having sat through the previous argument thread (R.I.P.), I really don't wish to continue this discussion any further. Therefore, I'm going to do what I might do at any party where I've encountered someone I really don't wish to talk to: I'm going to nod and smile, find some way to extricate myself from the conversation, and slip off the ladies' to touch up my lipstick. If anyone likes, after that I'm going to get a martini refill at the patio bar. Cheers!

Mlle Kate

Hey Mlle Kate,

Sorry, I didn’t realize English was your second language.

“Classicism” means something in the classical style; I don’t know what you mean when you use it.

Caste refers to a social class – I’m not sure what you mean by a “moral” caste. Is this some fundamentalist religion thing? (she asked, suspiciously)

Sarah Ferguson is a commoner with not a Hon to her name, pre-marriage. Sadly, I remember this sort of thing. But in my defense, I’m a great Trivial Pursuit partner.

In discussing American culture – the source of the word tacky -- no one singled you out personally, but if you feel the shoe fits…

Incidentally, how can one be “blatantly” passive-aggressive? If you’re passive…oh, never mind.

Say, are you sure you need more martinis? Wouldn’t you rather have someone get you a nice dictionary?

Ah, Cassandra, still ever the diplomat.

Let me see if I understand the semantics of these words:

If I said, Cassandra, that I appreciated your viewpoint and the carefully crafted way you share it, even though I may disagree, that I respect your intellect, enjoyed the repartee, and that you had opened my eyes to a new viewpoint in spite of our differences, that would exhibit a fair amount of class.

But if I instead called you a pompous, close-minded, high falutin', high-and-mighty condescending windbag of a poseur wannabe snob, *that* would be tacky.

Did I get that right?

And I doubt you're a great partner of any kind if this is what you consider healthy, um, discourse. And it totally sounds like you could benefit from a big stiff one.

And of course, I mean martini.

Oh, come on now Patrick, you know you have little thing for me. That’s why you keep making those stiffy jokes.

Admit it: I’m making your life more interesting. And if you’d just get over that little inferiority complex of yours – you know, the one that limits your come-backs to name-calling and penis jokes -- I bet we could be friends.

P2, drinks are on me.

Mlle Kate

Um, I don't "have a little thing" for anyone.

P2, Mlle Kate, tor, et. al.—

I'll see you over there...sheesh.

L

Patrick, you do know that your endless harping on your fine proportions tells us you’re the not-so-proud owner of a TWP?

But at least you're on topic, tacky, tacky, tacky.

Well, you brought it up, with your "weapons of mass destruction" comment.

And sometimes humor is fact-based.

"Humor, n., v." Borrow Mlle's DICtionary and look it up.

Whatever else it may be, tacky is--or certainly should be--fun. Such as my short, hand painted, '30s neck ties. Or the plastic flamingos placidly stalking 'cross the lawn of a sedate Lafayette home; except when a party was in the offing and they were arranged erotic poses. Then there is my most recent favorite: a young woman at a hockey game wearing Tom Mix jeans and argyle socks with slightly oversized, two toned, wingtip shoes.
I argue that America's sense of tacky grew out of taking pleasure from things of little substance or value.
Jenn: You Go, Girl.

This discussion has certainly been interesting, but I've got to cruise on over to eBay to see if I can find those pink flamingos (I've always wanted one) to go in my garden - I've got the perfect spot picked out - right next to the beat-up, plastic, mud-covered 4x4 truck left over from my son's childhood. Tacky? Probably. Do I care? Nope - not when just walking out there makes me smile.

Why can't you just appreciate the beauty in design instead of labeling someone's particular taste as tacky?

I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida and we have multi million dollar homes decorated by the country's finest. Down south there is Miami, Orlando, Tampa, all cultural and artistic hot beds bearing great and amazing architecture and design.

I don't like that you are stereotyping possibly the most diverse state out of all 50. We are a southern state, yet we have beautiful beaches with bright white sand, Miami's Spanish heat, and the southern styles of Central areas like Gainesville.

We have class down here in the south, that I thought was commonplace throughout America, I hope I'm not wrong about that. We have common courtesy to our fellow man and we say "please" and "thank you". I am so incredibly sorry if that defines us as "tacky" people. I suppose that even though thousands of people move here to live in luxury we are all the same, even though this country is so diverse every one of us is just hopelessly tacky and couldn't possibly know what good taste is. I guess traveling south of Tennessee all of a sudden whipes out any ounce of good taste one might have in their brain. We must be incapable of seeing the elegant or luxurious. Perhaps we should get rid of our lawn ornaments, stop drinking our garrish drinks, chop off our mullets and paint our living rooms white with nothing more than one vase and a couch with a red dot painted on the ceiling. Would that be more to your liking?

Oh, and by the way, do your research, the pink flamingo lawn ornament started out in Leominster, Massachusetts, isn't that up north with y'all?

oceandreamer--
I have one for sale... email me at hatrickdesign @ netscape dot net