Tomorrow the electrician finally comes to finish off the electrical portion of our renovation. After an eternity of living our of suitcases and in the apartment equivalent of the Dust Bowl disaster we are going to be able to get back to normal. I just needed to post my joy (and my frustration at the fact that the electrician took an extra week to come finish).

Hi,

I've got a standard NYC renter case of all white walls and recently purchased vintage all white Saarinen table that I very much like. The problem is it all feels a bit too "cold" for a dining room area. Does anyone have any effective suggestions or similar experiences to warm up the room while still keeping the table?

I've got some red Eames side chairs for the table and red painting on the wall which helps but it all feels like not quite enough.

It all leads into another question reading the Apartment Therapy book's (excellent, btw) "80/20" color rule: Is white considered one of those "accent" colors that should be in the 20%? Or is more of a kind of "coolish" neutral? I'm rather new to all this ;)

Thanks in advance.

I went to APT in SOHO yesterday. They had some good, some chintzy stuff. One thing I liked (enough to buy one) was the lamps they have. They have 5 or so different styles of lamps with ceramic bases and fabric shades. You pick a style, a base color, and a shade. Very interesting shade patterns. All together it was around $200.

marc

Something goofy to lighten everyone's Monday. How much IKEA do you have on the brain? :

http://www.iamcal.com/games/ikea/

I asked this over on the weekend open thread, but maybe someone over here can help... I've been looking into getting a Lytegem lamp over at DWR:

http://dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=6457

...but here's the thing -- it only takes 12V/25W automotive bulbs, which just isn't a lot of light. The woman in the store suggested that I buy two lamps instead, but, um... I've been googling, and I found that people make LED replacement bulbs for autos. Can anyone find a drawback to putting one in this lamp?

Nick... It depends on the room. Don't be too slavishly devoted to 80/20 if you find that you need more than 20% to brighten up a plain room. Do one thing at a time and it will all come together. Do you have any clippings that represent the look you're going for?

I use white as an accent in my apartment because everything else isn't white. If I had to parcel it out, my house would probably be 50% bright red, 10% bright cool colors, 25% wood and 15% white. It sort of hews to the 80/20 rule, but not really...

Hey Everyone!

In my quest for a healthy apartment I am planning on selling a bunch of my unwated crap. Some is going on ebay & craigs list, but the rest I am hoping to Sell at the Avenue A Flea Market. Does Anyone know how To register etc?
Any help Would be excellent!

Thanks

victoria,

i shared a selling table at ave. A flea market w. a friend a few years ago...he set it up, but as far as i remember it's just a matter of first come/first serve in terms of getting a table and a spot from the person who runs it (and paying them the rental fee, of course).
actually, i would possibly be interested in sharing a table. my cure has become impossibly stalled and offloading a massive outbox might be a fantastic kick-start.

REVIEW OF THE BO CONCEPT WAREHOUSE SALE

Was anyone else there? I had my zipcar rental ready to go, left Park Slope at 9:15 AM (after the wife flaked on me, given the weather, relegating me to go myself). I pulled up to that godforsaken helltown in New Jersey BEFORE 10:00 AM and guess what? A line of perhaps 100 people already there.

The pickings were very slim and most of the good stuff was "tagged" in less than 20 minutes. In an act of vengeance on my wife, I flirted with one of the sales girls. She had bad teeth and an attractive body, and the whole thing would have been deliciously squalid but who am I kidding, I didn't pursue it.

I did end up with a brand new, beige suede chaise lounge chair, for $300 (regularly, $500)
http://www.boconcept.us/Armchairs_from_BoConcept_13-10483.aspx
The wife called me an "idiot" for buying it and claims it "ruins the space" of our bedroom. I am in the process of deciding whether, in fact, it is SHE who is the idiot and I the visionary. The jury is out.

If nobody on this site wants it, I will probably put it on Craigs' or Ebay this week.

Cake Painter,
I am Shareing the table with a friend. Between the two of us We should do Well (fingers crossed).
What time should we arrive to insure that we get a table? Do you have any tips regarding prodical? I've never Done this before.
Victoria

Nick, though white ought to be an 80% neutral, sleek modern rooms often need a touch of texture to humanize them.

The cliched answer would be one of those Polynesian rustic wood trays that are sort of banana-shaped, with a line of red apples in it. That's a total cliche, but it's a cliche because it accomplishes the goal of bringing texture into the room (doesn't have to be wood texture, though) and getting your accent color onto the table itself. Whatever you do needs to accomplish those two goals.

I live in less than 600 square feet of apartment, and I know many of you do too, but I have never seen it mentioned here as a regular problem for small-space dwellers... am I the only one who can't stand the fridge noise? In my last apartment I eventually replaced the fridge, hoping to get one with less noise, but it was just a *different* noise, perhaps a little less annoying. What to do in such a small space? In my new place, the fridge sounds like a little snowstorm when it revs up. I had four friends over on Saturday night, and because my apartment is so small, the kitchen is very close to the living room. All of the seats in my living room were occupied, and one friend was sitting next to the wall that (partially) divides the kitchen from the living room. I saw her actually sort of cringe and move her head forward, trying to hear the conversation when the fridge kicked in... then we actually started talking about the effing fridge noise. Most of my friends live in houses with their families and have never had to deal with fridge noise right next to their heads. Grrr. Will I have to ditch the fridge and drink warm beer?

Good question Teabags. My parents are in a new house with a brand new refrigerator that makes a noise that sounds like it would terrify dogs and cats. It's not that loud, it's just so annoying.

Jonathan.
I like your impulse purchase. A chaise can turn a bedroom into a boudoir. I dimly recall you writing about a porno sheepskin rug purchase, but apart from that I can't comment if it "ruins the space." since I haven't seen the space. To me the chaise is definitely very mod in a "Judy from "Lost in Space" way.
You'll certainly have no problem selling it.

Teabags, the high-end fridges like Bosch is near silent. And my GE profile is very low-profile.

I have a cheap fridge and I can hear it, but the traffic noise drowns it out. Kind of like how a used car does, I figure, "it just does that."

I played the Ikea game that Trish M pointed us to. I'm proud to say that I got every answer wrong. My attitude to Ikea is simple: I oppose it. In my view it commits the worst offence of all: it sells the promise of sleekness and modernity to people who don't have a lot of money, then slips them badly made stuff.

Here's an AT game that I sometimes play: read the first few lines of a post and guess who wrote it. I can spot Tat, Andree and Jonathan in two sentences flat. (And, Jonathan, I have to say that I probably agree with your wife. Without seeing your bedroom, though, it's hard to say for sure. We'd looked at that chaise ourselves for our bedroom and rejected it.)

Mary: I have a similar interest and a similar question about the Lytegem lamps -- but no answers for you.

Mary.

I just bought the red lytegem lamp from DWR. There's a sticker inside by the bulb that reads --CAUTION: Risk of fire. Use 12V type
1156 automotive lamp.

If you don't go over 12 volts, the lED should be safe. They give off less heat than other bulbs so they're probably less of a fire hazard.
By the way, that cute little lamp does give off a lot of light. You'd be surprised.

The IKEA game! I got three right by chance.

My experiences with IKEA boil down to:

(a) Two purchases I don't regret (not counting votive holders, which are hard to screw up): 10' gray velvet curtains for the house back East and the TV cart we have now.

(b) Three purchases I regret a lot: a floor lamp that never stood straight, a cute clock that's unreadable from any distance greater than six inches, and the duvet that quickly resembled a large ball of cotton with unfilled edges.

(c) A lot of trips that apparently celebrated Buy Nothing Day.

I like the concept of IKEA as a means for the young and broke to have a sleek, coordinated, organized apartment right away -- but the actual stuff never quite does it for me, except maybe the kitchen cabinets.

Ha! 6 out of 10 on the Ikea game!

And I wear my Ikea badge proudly! (I soooo don't agree with Design Dabbler on this one)

Hmm, "an Ikea badge." It sounds like something you'd earn in Gay Cub Scouts.

Design Dabbler: selling lousy products with the promise of sleek design is "the worst offense of all"? That's quite a statement. The priest who molested me all those years will be relieved to hear it!

teabags, our German friend hates American marketed fridges because of the effing noise they make. He swears the ones in Germany and Sweden don't sound like that, and thinks Americans are crazy to let so much noise pollution happen around them (don't get him started on forced air).

Maybe some of those pretty (and pricey) skinny euro fridges would be quieter? I know the German vacuums (Miele and Bosch) are very, very quiet and the same two companies kind of pioneered the whole quiet dishwasher movement.

IKEA kitchen cabs rock and use primo Blum hardware (and Ferrari in some of the horizontal uppers). Indpendent testers give them a thumbs up too. And they always look better then the displays, which seem to be put together by a very clumsy ape. We plan on using them in our kitchen this summer.

The other IKEA stuff in the house are the Billy bookcases (cheap, functional and less ugly then other options at that price point), a couple of folding chairs and the Molger bench, which has to be the best IKEA purchase ever. Solid as a rock and good looking to boot. Sits in our entry for a place to sit while changing into inside shoes (ahem). I wouldn't buy their lighting or upholstered furniture because it seems to age overnight.

regards,
trillium

DD: recognizing Tat in the threads is unfairly(to other players) easy, due to my highly personal idiolect of English.

And my Swedish needs polishing: IKEA game: 0:10.

I'm more amazed DD could recognize Andree in two sentences or less. Usually takes me about 80 sentences.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

2 out of 10 on the IKEA game... and I'm with P2. I've bought a few things from IKEA (bed, computer desk, TV stand), and have been happy with everything thus far.

I think that one has to separate the *idea* of Ikea from what it actually does. I believe very strongly that people should have attractive, well-designed things, even if they don't have much money. But the quality of most of what Ikea offers is simply bad. There's no excuse for that. They have these pathetic little pistons and hammers thumping away at pieces of furniture, trying to delude customers into believing that their stuff will last for years. In reality, you're lucky if it'll last the ride home. That's an exaggeration, I know, but not an extreme one.

I know that you do find the lonely, sturdy piece of this or that scattered about the store, and I know people who like their Ikea kitchen cabinets. I'm talking about the majority of their products here, not *every* piece.

I feel strongly about this, because it really is a species of con. And the design community is complicit in it by pushing the chain as a viable alternative to places such as DWR. I realize that DWR should really call itself DeCOR -- Design Completely Outside Reach (of most people) -- but that doesn't make low-cost, by itself, a viable alternative. I'm pretty sure that several of the people who push Ikea -- one of the MoMA design curators, for example -- never actually use its products. It's an unpleasant form of condescension to sit in your Eames Lounge chair and wish on poorer people an Ikea Breakstrom chair and a Splinterberg chest of drawers. Do the unrich not deserve good quality?

(And, Jonathan, we're talking design offences here, not crimes against your humanity.)

Fine. Well. If years of walking with a painful limp is off the table, then I should tell you Design Dabbler that I bought a beautiful shiny teapot from Ikea. Second time I used it, the plastic nozzle that fits over the head MELTED over the teapot and my brand new kitchenaid stove top. I sent a lunatic letter to customer service that more or less threatened them with me flying over to bumblef*ck eskimo-land and firebombing their headquarters.

Nobody wrote me back - would you believe that???

fridge -- Mine also makes a lot of noise, especially considering how small it is... I've considered putting egg crate soundproofing back behind it.

Lytegem -- I may just try it... I figure if the LEDs aren't going to break someone's car, they won't break my little lamp. I'll try the existing bulb first, but the weak lamp I have now is 40W, so I think I'll probably want more light than that...

Design Dabbler--

How can anybody be seriously deluded by Ikea when paying $19.00 for a chair?

And NOBODY seriously thinks Ikea is a "viable alternative to DWR." Nobody markets it that way, either.

"DeCOR -- Design Completely Outside Reach"

*giggle*

DesignDabbler, that was really funny. :)

Jonathan: I'm shocked, shocked that Ikea did not reply. They did to me. I'd written complaining that an item that was listed as being in stock on the computerized inventory on a store website was not actually in the store. I asked Ikea to compensate me for my lost time (a total of three hours). They wrote back a very nice note, actually thanking me for taking the time to contact them. They then offered the following very reasonable explanation: "The stock checking program on our website is an indication only and not a guarantee."

And, yes, they declined to compensate me.

DD, you would be surprised how 2-way the condescension game is.
Do you know how many times, seating on my Fritz Hansen desk chair, I've been ridiculed by a visitor who owned an IKEA caricature for $65?

I am sooooo stealing DeCOR!

IKEA isn't an alternative to DWR... it's an alternative to Target, with a few shining moments of being an alternative to Lowe's/Home Depot.

Last time I was in line at the East Palo Alto IKEA (the clock incident), the gal behind me was on her way to the Target I'd just come from. It was a major bonding moment, especially as she was looking for the same kind of three-compartment laundry sorter that I'd bought a couple years ago.

DD--
Did you seriously expect compensation for your time?

Patrick, the other: I realize that the people who, say, frequent AT are not fooled by Ikea. They know what they are getting and are careful about what they buy, even if they sometimes get a Meltstrom kettle by mistake. But the AT crowd is not Ikea's main market. Most people who shop there think they are getting reasonable quality. By and large they are not. The next time you are there, eavesdrop on some of the conversations, look at what people are buying, watch how many ghastly meatballs they ingest.

They ARE getting reasonable quality... FOR THE PRICE.

Meatballs included.

And plus, Ikea is *not* located in unsophisticated or backwoods markets.

You make it sound like it is all an evil scam to bilk the underprivileged out of their savings. The picture you're painting is a tad extreme, no?

P2: If Ikea adopted what you're saying as its advertizing slogan, I'd have less of a problem with them:

"Ikea: reasonable quality... FOR THE PRICE"

Not sure yet if our agerums are annuals or perennials.

i'm marching in DD's parade. as a young college student, i bought an ikea desk for a couple of hundred dollars. it fell apart almost as soon as i put my computer on it. the other two items i bought there (coffee table, dresser) didn't fall apart literally but lost their looks and value pretty quickly.

i think ikea, like body shop, passes off low quality goods by spraying them with a progressive/trendy aura.

i still remember when my wiser friend explained to foreign me about particle board, and it was like having one of the tricknologies of the devil revealed.

(i'm happy with my ikea pillows and a pot i bought there)

People do not go to Ikea thinking they are buying a couch that lasts a lifetime. The junior people in my office (22 and 23 years old) are fully aware that they are buying Ikea so they can have a cheap bed that isn't hideous.

And they do not go on AT, or if they do, they have at least managed to not say anything about the time I spend here.

DD, do you hate on Z Gallerie as well?

I've been a big advocate of Ikea kitchen cabinets. However, this weekend I cleaned the insides of my kitchen cabinets, which I believe were installed not long before I bought the place by the previous owner, and the melamine, or whatever it is, starting wearing off on the edges of the shelves. I was using extremely gentle, organic cleaner. I was pretty shocked by this. Also, since I was looking directly into the cabinets, it was easy to see the back walls of the cabinets bowing out as I was cleaning. I am reevaluating my opinion of Ikea cabinets. They're still better than a lot of the furniture, which I've seen literally falling apart on the showroom floor. And I would never buy an Ikea lamp, which also always look they're falling apart in the store.

rasil: I didn't know what Z Gallerie was. I googled it and looked at one or two things. Ouch!

Only $159 for a framed Botero!

http://tinyurl.com/qfpfy

When I was 22 and new to NYC, I was hired unexpectedly at a dream job "but you need to start Monday". I had nothing but a suitcase. I bought dishes, silverware, a couple of lamps, a rug, a plant, a shower curtain, blinds... blah blah blah.. all in about one hour at Ikea.

When I got married and needed a few hundred votives and votive candles, I went to Ikea.

When I sold my place and needed to de-personalize my apartment, I bought a bunch of neutral picture frames, mirrors, vases, lamp, etc. all at Ikea.

When I spent a summer at the beach, I bought a cheap crib and a mosquito net at Ikea (and had no guilt tossing it at the end of the summer).

I like Ikea! I like their coffee and apple cake too. I do find that I have a habit of bursting in tears if I get stuck there for more than an hour, so I don't.

Z Gallerie is the spawn of Satan, equipped with a marketing degree and good research on urban-fringe homeowners between 35 and 50.

only? what is this botero? could a poster framed in acrylic be 159? is it a limited edition print?

and of all the reproductions of works of art devoted to the rear ends of naked portly women, why botero?!

Yikes! Hey I posted the IKEA game for sheer fun - not to start a design duel. Everyone just put down their FJARDINGS and step away... :)

Yes, I too went straight to IKEA when we needed hundreds of votives for our high school reunion. And yes, the apple cake rocks. You need meatballs and sweets after running that Swedish gauntlet.

Wow, this has to be the snootiest AT string ever!! Love it!

Trish M., you never know where a thread you start will lead.

rasil, if you had to ask then clearly you did not experience the Zoom View.

Pixie, the cabs are under warranty for 10 years I think, not sure if the shelves are covered. I know that installation makes a huge difference in how well they look and last. I think they're the nicest looking and best built for this price point (compared to similarly priced stuff at Home Despot and Lowe's)but they're no henrybuilt, that's for sure!

Are you saying your cleaner ate the melamine? Or that it's just wearing away?

regards,
trillium

Late on the OT today...

Jonathan, I bought a similarly-styled chaise lounge a couple of years back; and had the delivery people take it back as soon as they placed it in my apartment. It turns out I was lacking the adequate surrounding space needed to accomodate the bulky and squat dimensions of piece like that. (Those types of modern-looking chaises seem to require a lot of floor space around them so as not to overcrowd the room.) Luckily, I was only stuck paying for the delivery fee and some sort of re-stocking fee. I chalked it up as a "live and learn" experience.

Re: IKEA. I consider myself to be within the AT target demo (age, salary, urban-dweller); and I often opt for IKEA when given several options.* So, I think that Design Dabbler's observations may be a bit off. But I did get a good chuckle from DD's conspiracy theory perspective. But I guess that just makes me complicit in crimes against good design, good manufacturing and, quite possibly, good taste. Feel free to lock me up in design prison. I have a "Get out of Jail; Go directly to IKEA" card.

*[I often consider "trading up" on certain IKEA pieces, but don't always find stylish replacement options at a reasonable price-point. Similarly, I look at my more-expensive purchases and get mad at myself for not taking the time to shop around for lesser-priced options.]

Oh, and though I only like certain items from them, I'm pro-Z Gallerie too. Z Gallerie, the spawn of Satan? That's about as astute an observation as implying that IKEA is guilty of a "bait-and-switch" modern-design lifestyle con.

trillium-Thanks for the warranty tip. It seems that just washing the shelves started wearing away whatever surface was covering the edges. Not dramatically but enough. I've had melamine furniture from Target in the past and I don't remember this happening so fast. I suppose I can replace the shelves whenever I sell the place if they start really looking bad.

I'm confused with the 80/20 colors and with the color white, per the thread earlier today.

My floors are dark walnut, have a stone colored sofa (with dark legs), muted striped chair with walnut legs, and dark chocolate dining table.

I was going to have 4 white chairs (T-back), white shag rug and white pendant shade above dining table. The white is a bit bright. Is this too much white? Should I use cream? I'm so confused. Can anyone help me. I'm driving myself nuts.

I'd post a picture of my room, but not sure how to do this here.
THANKS!!!!!

i heard enrique spends his weekends offering the devil tea at low aluminum tables and reading AT backwards.

Ha, rasil! But what is a poor sinner to do when, to take the most recent example, DWR slaps a $1295 price tag on their "new" Paulistano Chair? To which I say: Goddammit!

Rasil. You know me too well.

Henrietta: Goddammit to you, I say. I'd just beaten my fjarding into a pljowshare, forgiven Enrique for his utter incomprehension of what I was saying, and was about to settle down to a quiet life of agriculture -- while contemplating my next non-controversial posting to AT (the next Jackson Pollock will not come from China).

Then you had to go say something thought-provoking.

Is it impossible to make good, sturdy stuff at reasonable prices? We have Heywood Wakefield furniture at home that has lasted 50-60 years and is still going strong. We eat off Eva Zeisel Tomorrow's Classic dinnerware that's almost as old. Both were originally produced for the mass market, and, unlike the Eames-Nelson-Noguchi stuff, reached it. Is that kind of lasting quality impossible to achieve today at reasonable prices? Are we trapped between the over-priced rock of DeCOR and the hard place of an Ikea couch?

Good show, Design Dabbler!

As to your question, it seems to be a sign of the times.

DD, I think the items you mention were priced more along the lines of today's William Sonoma dishware or Room and Board's furniture. They were not at Ikea's price points.

re: price points. there's a man at the hell's kitchen flea market who makes wooden furniture out of reclaimed wood (pine, cherry), they're pretty cheap, surprisingly slender, and with a good finish, could please the eye for a long time. no, it's not the huanghuali wine table of my wine-drunk dreams but there's an extra charm in paying 200 bucks for reasonable quality produced by someone one has met.

IKEA: Meatballs good, furniture oh so bad!

I, too, had a leaning lamp (several rounds of super glue finally set it straight, and the melted tea kettle and countless other bits and peices from Ikea that imploded on themselves.

I think the place is great for organizational bins, etc, curtains, frames, and the occassional stool or side table, etc.

But, I personally feel depressed (& duped) every time I toss their crap into the trash, knowing I was just the six month owner of something that was basically manufactured to go straigh to a landfill. Culturally, it's a pretty disgusting way to live.

I stick to non-furniture, non-cookware items now. It helps.

It's weird when the earmark of an ecomony is things purposely built to fall apart so you have to buy more to continue to create 'economic growth'. It doesn't happen accidentally. But it won't be able to sustain itself forever (yay - bleak thoughts!)

PS My friends and I refer to DWR as "Design Not-within-our Reach." Much like Wholefoods is "Whole Paycheck."

I'll have to look up the H-W, etc., prices later. Luckily, I have not taken The Cure yet, so have all this useless information cluttering up my home. But, I'm traveling right now (hence have had time today to stir the pot) and don't have access to my piles of paper. I do remember that Eva Zeisel's Tomorrow's Classic was priced very inexpensively and was a really huge seller for Hall China.

I agree that the Ikea price point is very, very low. Could they charge 50% more, though, and produce stuff that's 500% better? What's the price point at which good quality stuff can be produced?

"Are we trapped between the over-priced rock of DeCOR and the hard place of an Ikea couch?"

[fretting] Oh, it all seems so hopeless.

All this discussion about IKEA makes me wonder if AT - The Store should sell a bracelet in blue and yellow which says, "Think Protein, Be Strong" for those of us who wander the aisles of IKEA, as if in a stupor, with the smell of Swedish coffee luring us around every corner.

rsw,

That does sound like a lot of white. I haven't quite master the 80-20 rule, since I haven't been able to start my Cure yet, but it does sound like you need some color. Can you register with www.flickr.com and post a pic? You'll probably get more feedback.

I also was of the understanding that Eames and Eva Zeisel were not Ikea price, but I could be wrong, because manufacturing was definitely a lot cheaper then.

DD quoth: "Could they charge 50% more, though, and produce stuff that's 500% better?"

Okay, one test case. Target. Their furniture is now pretty consistently priced above IKEA, and they do some modern lines that look nice on their Web site. Anyone have any experience with actually living with the furniture?

Test case: West Elm. Charges a LOT more than IKEA. Is the quality proportionately better?

None of this proves what a company *could* do, of course -- but it's a point of reference on what competitors are finding it profitable to do.

Googled, and just an interesting quote from Terence Conran. (URL to interview in link)

ML: There are certain design classics that will always be popular--for example, that Eames chair you are sitting on.
TC: When I was a student I was enormously inspired by what was going on in the West Coast, and the only way I could see it was in Arts & Architecture magazine. I saw then what people like Charles Eames were doing. But Eames was never out there in front of the general public. So he had limited influence over the mass market. Ultimately, taste is influenced by what people are offered and what they can buy. Back then high design was for a privileged minority who were taken into decorator showrooms like pet poodles. Decorators really didn't want cutting-edge design to appear on Main Street. Today young Americans would not dream of doing that. People are beginning to realize that there is something emasculating about having something terribly important in your life chosen by somebody else. It's like having your ideal husband chosen for you.

In response to Wende's post, I am a fan of Target but I think their furniture is terrible. Granted, a lot of the nicer stuff is '.com only' (e.g. BluDot beds) but what I see in the stores is terrible. Pixie mentioned that she has had good luck with hers, but while I happily lap up a lot of Target's crassly marketed 'stuff' -- and clearly have MUCH lower standards than a lot of the AT crowd!!! -- most of the case goods I have seen in the store is terribly shabby.

The Tom O'Brien stuff is a case in point -- and I believe it was discussed on these boards because everything in the ad photos looked quite dreamy. In person it was easy to see gaping spaces between drawers, drooping shelves, chipped corners, etc.

wow. A little late to add to this from out here on the west coast, but wotthehell.

re: Ikea lighting. I've never had any trouble at all with the two Ikea lamps I own, purchased in Early Student Poverty. Ditto the pine table that I finished myself because I thought it would be less expensive than buying the finished one. (It also had the happy result of making it a little less readily identifiable.)

I just bought new Billy shelves - didn't think I'd ever do that, but they were the nicest thing out there at that price point and at several price points a fair bit higher. It seems you have to either build them yourself or spend a fortune to get nice simple shelves.

I love my LACK shelf (installed properly, into the studs where ever they matched up.)

What else?

Agreed that head-to-toe Ikea is a little tiresome, but so is head-to-toe anything else - even very high end things. Also agreed that it pays to watch the quality of what you're buying - but that holds true for a great many stores, including those that work with customers with much higher credit limits.

Oh, yes, Ikea serves beer in their restaurants. (not sure if this is true in the good ol' US of A or not - but I assume so.)

Beer makes the Ikea experience much, much better. Wende, next time, instead of buying nothing, have a beer. (If only they'd let you walk around the store with it.)

JenDC,
Unless I have amnesia (possible), I think someone else must have said they've had good luck with Target furniture. The only things I've ever gotten there is stuff like white melamine shelving and shoe shelves. Whenever I've looked at the furniture, I'm quite unimpressed with the quality.

DWR (Design Within Reach) = DOOR (Design Out Of Reach).

Ikea-Our Vision: http://tinyurl.com/roqdo

Ingvar Kamprad, world's richest man:
http://www.scandinavica.com/culture/famous/IKEA.htm

Refrigerator noise: ratings by brand/model through Consumer Reports, must be subscriber to access full ratings.
http://tinyurl.com/gf6tg

Jonathan, lovely chaise longue.
Solutions:
Have her do one room, you do the other, and nobody complains about each other's choices.
Divorce.
Tell her it's her fault for being a weenie and not going and that the chair stays.

I think Ikea's quality has declined over the years. I also suspect the quality of Ikea furniture is better in other countries. I'm in on Design Dabbler's sinister conspiracy theory.

re wende's comment: "Test case: West Elm. Charges a LOT more than IKEA. Is the quality proportionately better?"

a resounding NO!!!

(er, that wasn't supposed to be a rhetorical question, right?)

Heheh, I love Andree's list of options for Jonathan, especially the second ("Divorce"--though technically it wouldn't apply to me). Didn't someone mention something recently about the need for "Apartment Therapy for Couples"? Amen, I say.

Regarding DWR, I asked this before but no one bit:
Doesn't anyone remember when they primarily sold knock off MCM stuff? They only became official sellers of Knoll stuff etc. about a year or two ago. When they sold the knock off stuff they were within reach. Now they sell the official stuff they are out of reach.

jamie pup: I remember your previous comment. To be honest, I'm not totally sure I agree that DWR's prices have gone up quite so drastically in the last 18 months. They've always seemed pricey to me. Only a few of their products were affected, in any case, by the trademark protection awarded Knoll in late 2004. Does anybody have an old DWR catalog (from 2003 or thereabouts) so we can compare prices?

For those of you who didn't follow the story, here's a link (search for "Knoll"): http://271patent.blogspot.com/2004_10_01_271patent_archive.html

Here's another story on the same general issue: http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0600/enterprise.htm

Sooj -- Nope, not a rhetorical question! My interest was genuine.

I should add that my lack of actual buying at IKEA isn't part of an anti-IKEA philosophy or anything. I just discovered them when I was already too old and set in my ways. If I'd walked into one at 20, with graduation money in hand -- bonanza!

Yeah, it would have all fallen apart by now... but what furniture do I have now that I had 20 years ago anyway? One Asian tea chest that I never get around to replacing with something I like better. Many Things Wished Upon Me By Helpful Relatives were solidly built furniture (and one dresser would be HOT these days!) but my tastes changed, my life changed, my marital status changed, and I'm glad I don't have to fit stuff I owned in 1986 into our current apartment.

Enrique, the reason I hate Z Gallerie is that every time I walk in, I feel like it's so calculated to hit my exact demographic that I've been grabbed by the throat. It's a weird reaction, and probably comes from the shame of some of the less ethical marketing projects in my past. (But you're right -- I was being caustic without any useful analysis.)

There's a good one--The Evolution of DWR: How a Nice Guy from San Francisco Created a Monster.

It does seem as if it wasn't long ago that DWR started featuring contemporary design like the Anna chairs, Timavo table (it wasn't always 4000 bucks, was it?!) and Cubetic shelving. But I can't remember.

I suspect p(too) is on the DWR payroll. Well?

Doesn't the name Design Within Reach refer not only to pricepoint but also to availability? I am under the impression that most of the appeal is that DWR acts as a stocking dealer so that if you are interested in the Eames/Knoll/Kartell items you can click or phone and days later enjoy the product. If you ordered through the manufacturer chances are you would have to wait 8-12 weeks for items (except maybe for Kartell that seems to stock its own stores).

I believe A.L. is correct.

It's so sad to me that someone is under suspicion of being on the take if you defend the mission of a retailler.

No, Henrietta, I do not work for DWR. Or Ikea. Or Crate & Barrel. Or Pottery Barn. Or Crate & Barrel. Or Terence Conran.

And I have said it many, many times before.. Rob Forbes, of DWR, is one of the good guys in the retail world.

Oh my p squared, no need to be so solemn. I was (half) kidding.

But I thought you might know a thing or two about how DWR has developed.

Sooj-

How is your bedding doing? Has it been behaving like proper bedding should?

You all seem to have it covered already, so I don't know what I could contribute on the topic at this point.

DD, I take some of that back. I guess I was just thinking of the Mies stuff. $2895 unlicensed day bed in 2003 vs $9000 for the official item:

http://catalogs.google.com/catalogs?catalog=Design+Within+Reach

I had meant to mention catalogs.google.com once before when someone asked about catalogues but I think they wanted a current issue.

P2: If you know the answer to whether the "within reach" part of the DWR name ever meant price, in addition to availability, I'd be interested in it.

Some of you may know this already, but DWR had a distinguished predecessor, a company called Design Research. Here's an article about them:
http://www.digitalmediatree.com/schwarz/comment/23589/

For those of you in the Boston area, the Design Research headquarters were in the building now occupied by the Harvard Square Crate and Barrel.

Wende is totally right about the marketing machine. Retailers no longer build products around what the merchandisers like, nope, instead they conduct extensive market research and eventually build a number of "personas" of the most lucrative target market and then cater to what those people want. Or so a friend of mine tells me ;)

A while back I remember reading an interesting article with one of Ikea's planners, I can find it online, but I think it was in an airline magazine. Anyway, the way they approach what they are to offer for sale is to build a matrix with products down one side and price points along the other. Then they make sure they have a good mix of every product, at every price point. So, instead of building a product and then adding the margin, they figure out the price point and then work within those constraints. Very similar to how one would shop.

Question: What are some good alternatives between DWR and Ikea? CB2? West Elm?

I didn't know about either catalogs.google or Design Research. (I even believe Janet Malcolm this one time.) That was a revelation.

As an aside, I never got over my grief at the loss of the great Ad Hoc Softwares. It was there that I bought the only pair of slippers I ever loved. I wore them until they were completely corroded. Now I'm going to go cry myself to sleep.

P.S. Yes, they had leopard spots.

MichelleNCheese:
One article here that explains the price matrix:
http://tinyurl.com/kd5hr

Also, there was an issue of Dwell awhile back that had a cover story that said something like "There's more than IKEA to shop modern"...but I don't have that issue. Perhaps someone here does and could fill us in on the article?

Lori 2 - wow, I can't believe you remembered my posts from ages ago about trying to tame my rebellious down comforter! I'm sort of ashamed to admit that nothing's changed--although I still fantasize about smooth, sleek bedding that LIES FLAT, I just can't bring myself to leave the down comforter b/c, well, it's so damn comfortable. At the moment I can't really afford to spend $$$ on new bedding anyway. And so the struggle continues...but thanks for asking!

jamie pup: I absolutely remember when DWR sold a select number of knock-offs as recently as 18 months ago. About a year and a half ago, I remember going into a DWR showroom and looking at a knock-off of the Le Corbusier LC-1 sling chair priced at $795. I remember talking to one of the sales associates to confirm that it was not a licensed version, which accounted for the lower price-point. I'm kicking myself now for not buying this version since DWR now only stocks the licensed version with the steep price tag of $1,385 (way out of my price range). What kills me is that the knock-off version was very well-made with similar (if not exact proportions) of the original and was only lacking the Cassina pedigree (something which matters very little to me since I was going for the look and not so much the authenticity).

Check out the LA-AT Slinks here:
http://tinyurl.com/hyfe3

Whatcha think about that plate, eh?

Whole collection here:
http://tinyurl.com/zn5r9

Luckily, my thoughts on what the rest of the collection might be was not borne out. Then again, that could have been fun...

"Oh, what interesting bowls, it looks like young men playing leap frog"
(name that flick)

I think the Within Reach part might have been meant to be like, "within the reach of your phone and your catalog" as opposed to having to wait until Christies puts one up for auction, which I think it kind of SEEMED for a while like one might have to do.

And seriously folks, when you think about the kind of money that people are willing to spend the kinds of money on designer clothes, furniture prices at DWR aren't really all that bad. I think the thing is... when you buy an article of clothing, you know and understand and expect it to go out of style, and you manage not to hate yourself for spending money it (lotsa folks -- not so much me, I'm kind of a cheapskate), but if you feel like you spent too much for a piece of furniture, the fact that it might last longer is going to make you feel like you've "been had" for longer? It should make you feel like you got a good value, I think.

Ikea purchases sometimes last a while, too, actually. Too long, sometimes!

MichelleNCheese:
The methodology you describe is the way most retailers operate these days, not just Ikea -- they design/develop/build/sell for price points.

The "Reach" is indeed as Curtis described it -- accessability vs. cost-related "reach."

One friend of mine says, "Buy cheap, buy twice!"

Ad Hoc Softwares (sigh)
I miss them as well.

I have stackable Ikea shelves that I bought 14 or 15 years ago because they fit around the capped gas line in my old living room. Plus they looked a little . . . japanese.
Particle board covered with matte black "foil", yet they survived a move and have been redeployed in two sections. Low key, functional, versatile and in perfect shape - much to my surprise.
Last year I got the Expedit in black for the living room. It's solid, ridiculously inexpensive, and looks good. I don't think Target or West Elm can match it.

I think 'kea is great if you choose well, and have the patience to assemble.

I think it's the smaller stuff and new releases that vary more from country to country, although I have not actually indulged in international Ikea factfinding . . .

Guido, IKEA generally makes everything available everywhere, that's why their prices are low. Sometimes an item won't show up on a website, but will on another, often because of stock issues. It will show up later on the site on which is was missing.

I've looked up the same item in several different countries before, when it was missing from the US site, just to show someone an item.

You can also read the link I posted above to the "pricing matrix" post which also says they do it globally.

I have a small pine table and 4 chairs I bought at the Ikea in Toronto. The flat pack philosophy is great - I transported the package on the top of the car allt he way back to Denver. We assembled it, and have lived with it since 2002. I painted it last year with a glassy oilbased paint, and now use it as a desk. It looks great, and the dining chairs are solid - total cost: $259 canadian, at a time when the exchange was still ~40%. So worthwhile.

I loved my lack shelves, but there aren't any studs in my current walls so I sold them on ebay for a nice penny.

I have sen some ikea that's cheap, but there's expensive furniture out there as well that's built cheaply - pull out the drawers, look at the slides, look at the back - it's surprising.

It's a nice step for people who don't have the option of family heirlooms or the luxury of waiting till they find the 'perfect' $5000 table.

yah mon

I *found* the perfect $6000 cherry table at ABC, but went with the $200 from the 2nd hand store anyway . . .

Ikea does make *most* things available everywhere, but not all. I spent time in Iceland . . . so I can tell you those Swedes merchandise by country to some extent. It might be different on the websites.
My host had some smaller kitchen things in her home that were never sold here.

Wende: I bought a similar bent plywood table (without the rollers) as this (http://tinyurl.com/meqkx) about a year ago. I've had a TV on it, and my cable box/PS2 on the lower shelf, and it's held up fantastic.

DD: Thanks for the info on Design Research. I've always wondered why there are so many furniture stores on that part of Mass Ave.

j-pup: Thanks for the link to the old DWR catalogs. I was dimly aware of catalogs.google, but hadn't ever used the facility. It's great.

Prices for some items (the Eames LCW, for instance) have remained stable over several years, but the Mies items *have* gone up, as you said, by a huge amount -- much more than I'd realized.

I hadn't initially been sensitive to the knockoff issue, but became aware of it because of DWR's use of suggestive but slightly non-standard names for some its items in the early 2000s. The chair that I recognized as the Barcelona was called by them the Pavilion, for instance. I realized after a while that people tended to call knockoffs the Pavilion (a practice that continues today) to avoid legal trouble with the licensed Barcelona.

I'm deliberately posting here, at the dead end of this thread to avoid cluttering -- it seems the correct AT thing to do -- today's discussion with yesterday's detritus.

Grady: I assume you're a Bostonian. Your accent gives you away. In addition to the cluster of stores between Harvard and Central squares, I imagine you know of Abodeon, also on Mass Ave, but nearer Porter. Then there's Reside on Concord and the new Oylan on Huron. Further afield, there's Machine Age near South Station
and the stores near Montage. Do you know of other clusters (or good single stores)?

RE: DWR and Rob Forbes- The original premise of DWR was to offer well designed objects (furniture especially but also lighting and accessories) to the masses at reasonable prices without having to go through to the trade only showrooms. Certain companies (like Herman Miller and Vitra) saw DWR as an opportunity to increase sales and exposure and sold to/thru them from the start while certain companies (like Knoll) refused to deal with them (until recently). Yes, DWR had knockoffs made, in Italy , typically, of some of the greats of MCM furniture design and had to sell them as being inspired by ...and could not call them by their original names. Le Corbusier pieces being a case in point. The quality of construction and adherence to the original forms was superb but since they did not carry the licenced tag they were being sold as copies at about 60% of the price of the originals. Copies, yes, but very good ones. Prices have steadily increased at DWR over the last 2-3 years, mainly because of general increases in costs associated with labor and a recent rapid rise in the price of foam used in upholstery attributed to the rising prices of crude oil from which most foams are derived. Also, since DWR is now carrying licensed Knoll products (and not the knock offs anymore), prices on those pieces rose significantly since they now have the little Knoll tag, which is important to some people I suppose.

The other issue is that DWR is no longer a privately held company. Since going public and offering shares (DWRI), they now have to answer to the accountants who are concerned with margins and profits rather than Rob who was (and still is) concerned with design. Along with this is the fact that a lot of upper management (including buyers) are not "furniture people" but come from either catalog or fashion backgrounds like J.Crew, Williams-Sonoma... and again are more concerned with margins and numbers than neccessarily "good furniture".

Sorry for the long post but I hope this answers some questions out there.

And as for Rob Forbes...really great guy personally (yes, I have met him) but as for being a great guy for design and the masses...I'll leave up to you to decide.

One more comment re: DWR and prices. Since a lot of their stuff is made in Europe, every time the dollar dips against the euro, it hurts them and those increases are passed along. Typically every catalog that comes out will have some items that have increased in price. That has been going on for several years.

Excellent, anon, thank you! Sometimes length is entirely justified [insert quip from p2 here].

D/R was the best.

DD: I live about 30 minutes from Boston right now, but I'm moving to S. Boston next week. Other than what you mentioned, I think the only other store I've seen is Roche Bobois on Commercial St in the North End. Beautiful stuff, but WAY out of my price range.

Julianna: Not to date you or anything, but did you shop at D/R? A collegaue of mine did -- that's how I first heard of them. What were your experiences there?

And, yes, anon (P2 is that u?), excellent post.

Thank you. And no it is not P2. I do post here occasionally but since I worked for DWR for 2 years (no, won't say where or when), i would prefer to remain anon.

Honestly, I've never thrown out anything I got from Ikea. This includes a very simple nightstand, a 3-drawer dresser, and a bathroom organizer.

West Elm stuff is notoriously iffy on the quality, IMO. Remember the collapsing beds?

Maybe I'm not hard on my furniture, but I've never had stuff break on me. That said, I'll dumpster-dive, thrift, freecycle, or garage sale furniture (hardwood) before I will purchase it at IKEA.

Can't wait for another August 1st (when the dumpster/alleyway diving season is the best).

My parents met as designers at D/R. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for D/R!

Oooooh!! The plot thickens.

In Boston, there's also a cluster out on Route 9 in Natick though they are mostly chains. For modern stuff, the area around Montage (Adesso, Chiasso, Montage, Arclinea, Kartell, Shoomine, Showroom) is a bevy of furniture porn.

I bought and original nelson bubble lamp at Machine Age, and the people there were great, they let me do the whole transaction over the phone including letting someone else pick it up.

Hey thanks anon for the background on DWR.
Much appreciated.
I was beginning to think I was crazy!

So Julianna, were you -- how can I put this delicately? -- conceived in D/R? Which location? The Cambridge one seems unlikely, given the big windows and all. No wonder you think D/R was the best!

(On a side note: what did your parents do for D/R? Did the store carry products that were designed in-house?)

I wonder if there are any DWR babies out there. The Sonno mattresses don't seem conducive to that sort of thing. As the catalog says "With no springs, foam mattresses ... dampen movement, making it harder to disturb a partner."

And, continuing my love-poem to Ikea, I bet nobody has ever had sex in an Ikea store. There's something about those cavernous spaces that kills all ardor. If I'm wrong, it's time for the pro-Ikea crowd -- P2? Enrique? Trish M? -- to speak up.

My pleasure jamie pup.

Well, I've never had sex in an IKEA. BUT I did see a Craig's List personals posting in which a guy was soliciting illicit action in the men's room of my local IKEA. So, clearly, SOMEONE is getting it in IKEA. Now stop baiting me, DD. You're interrupting my web search for poorly-made, cheap-as-dirt knock-offs (preferably designed by Swedes).

*That* was your idea of a love poem? No wonder you're trying to live vicariously in the "ardor" department...

And, to tell the truth, I'm tired of defending Ikea against the bashers. To each his/her own. The fewer of you there, the less time I stand in the checkout line.

Oh and thank you DD for acknowledging the catlogs link. I was so excited when I found this a couple of years ago I thought others might be but the silence was killing me!

Thank you jamie pup. Just to continue with DWR/pricing, in 2001 the knockoff "pavillon" chair was $1900. It is now the official Knoll "Barcelona" chair at $3499 !

The Knock-off vs real issue begs the question (which we've gone around and around about before):
are 'knock-offs' and 'inspired by' creations/furniture ethically sound choices?

Is the $1900 Pavilion chair worth $1900, and is it hurting Knoll? Are the people who like the look but not the price tag going to just forgo the Barcelona because it's spendy? DOesn't it up the profile of the barcelona?

If a tree falls in a blog, do the leaves matter?

What if you spill coffee on it!

One more thing on IKEA availability, they most certainly do not make everything available in every country... I would kill (ok just maim) to have toe-kick drawers for the lower wall cabs available here, but noooooo... I really love the idea of toe-kick drawers and have been trying to figure out how to convince a friend of mine to go to IKEA and lug them back across the pond for me.

jamie p, I'm happy to know about the google catalogs but since I spend most of my browsing time on craigs or ebay I've filed it away for when I want something new.

regards,
trillium

on IKEA (my $.02):

my partner is a set designer and carpenter; he refers to IKEA as 'those swedish sacks of shit.'

Nonetheless, we do have a five white billy bookcases and three white lack armoires (because we have no closets in our apt.) We bought them because after we priced it all out--and this is including his free labor--buying the particleboard crap from IKEA was cheaper than making armoires ourselves. It cost more to buy the melamine and screws here in brooklyn than getting the pre-fab IKEA cabinet.

That was a shock. Also, I dislike the fact that most of the pine and birch that IKEA uses comes from former-USSR arboreal forests. That's why it's so damn cheap.

Oh boy rachel (in denver). Here we go. The $1900 Pavilion chair was worth $1900. it was made to almost the same specifications and construction as the original (some slight modifications to finish of the steel and welding if I remember correctly). I think it did hurt Knoll financially and that's why Knoll and DWR were able to come to terms. But don't forget, Knoll was not the oringinal manufacturer for this chair (can't remember who was) but just bought the rights to the name "Barcelona Chair". And DWR was able to do what they did with the "inspired by" pieces because the designs were old enough to be considered in the public domain and original manufacturers no longer existed . I think part of the issue is how DWR has changed. It was originally founded so that you did not have to deal with those "to the trade" showrooms with their high prices and attitudes. And now, even though you can walk into a studio, or call the 800 #, or go on line, that is who we are ultimately dealing with. They have become the enemy. That's what my objection to DWR is, they have changed significantly from there origins without telling anyone.

kwj,

Granted, this is corporate-speak and some of it is ambiguous, but this is what the Ikea site says:

Forestry
IKEA does not accept timber, veneer, plywood or layer.glued wood from intact natural forests or from forests with a clearly defined high conservation value. Our long-term goal is to source all wood in the IKEA range from verified, well-managed forests that have been certified according to a forest management standard recognized by IKEA.

Wood is renewable, recyclable and biodegradable, so it’s a good material from an environmental point of view, provided that it originates from well-managed forests.

Is this not true?

anon,

How did new design from Europe come into play? Did DWR commission designs (the Anna table and chairs, from what I dimly recall) or did I make that up?

Very good Henrietta. Yes, there were occassions that DWR had designers come up with specific pieces for them, like the Anna table. And of course, DWR does enter into agreement with some manufacturers and designers so that the pieces are "exclusively available thru DWR". And there have been occassions when that exclusivity time frame expires, the pieces are no longer carried by DWR. And as for the European thing in general, ever been to market at High Point?

anon: I'm really appreciating your former "insider" perspective on the whole DWR discussion. So thanks. It's too bad they haven't stuck with their original mission... I really miss their "inspired by" repros. Do you know if it's still possible to purchase the reproductions from the same manufacturers that DWR used to deal with? I was impressed by the quality and found the price point to be much more palatable. (Still dreaming about about a well-made LC-1 chair for under $800; but have only been able to find shoddy versions since DWR stopped stocking their repro.)

No, I haven't been to the market at High Point, although a relative goes every year.

Why?!

Henrietta: In regards to High Point, the vast majority of furniture that is shown there is crap. That , coupled with the lack of decent restaurants and hotels makes it one of the worst trade show venues I have ever been to. I've been there about 6 times and really have very few positive things to say about the place itself. That's why Las Vegas seems to be the next hottest marketplace.

Enrique: Are you in NYC? If so, check out C.I.T.E recently moved to Green Street or White Furniture on Broadway a coupla blocks below Canal. I haven't checked them out personally, but i think they carry some of the inspired by pieces. Let me know if you do.

And it is too bad about DWR. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing them but they no longer do what they set out to do but still act like they are .

Thanks anon. I'm in L.A., but there are enough showrooms out here that knock off certain designs, but the quality and prices vary so widely. Was hoping you'd have an insider tip on DWR's previous manufacturers...

I must go for now, but thanks again, anon, for your fascinating saga on DWR. I hope there is much more to come.

I take it that High Point showcases domestic design, and of course that was my next question: Where are the next-generation American designers?!

fiona,
I have no inside sources about IKEA's use or misuse of sustainable forests--just my own suspicion that if the wood and ground-up-wood-particleboard they are using is THAT cheap, something unethical is going on. The forests they use may be "sustainable," but that doesn't mean that those forests aren't being seriously altered and/or damaged.

My family has a cabin in a Canadian hardwood forest--mainly birch and maple. The forest was sold to a timber company 15 years ago, and 'selectively' and 'sustainably' forested. It broke my heart (even though I know wood has to come from somewhere) that huge swaths of trillium and ladyslippers were crushed by bulldozers. The damage to the entire ecosystem was, and remains, really sad.

so, pooh on IKEA, even though their stuff is affordable and not-too-ugly.

Still loving this insider's perspective of DWR.

Trillium, I am a big fan of finehomebuilding mag because they show you all the steps requried to build useful stuff around the home from small scale to large scale.

They once did a piece on building your own kick plate drawers and the secret was to build the drawers and an outer shell separately. Basically the outer plywood shell wrapped the drawer on the bottom and sides with no top, front or back. You then made the drawers with half an inch less width than these outer shells to accomodate the quarter inch depth of full extension drawer slides.

By doing this you can easily line up the drawer slides and screw them in on the comfort of the table instead of trying to reach into the space under the cabs.

I am handy but I am no woodworker but I have managed to make drawers for myself for that closet remodel I once posted pics of. It wasn't that hard but you need the right tools. As long as you get nice fronts (maybe use Ikea kick plates cut to size) then the drawers themselves don't have to look professionally made.

Enrique,
No, sorry. No insider tips. The inspired by's were purchased by the container load , made in Italy but no idea by who.

I should add that I am suspicious, given the way poverty and human nature works, that IKEA's money is so safely and pristinely going in to pluck out only the most sustainable timber. Arboreal forests are complex, but they are also in isolated, underpopulated parts of the world.

But then again, I am a perpetual skeptic. Maybe IKEA is a really great and ethically powerful buyer of cheap pine.

I don't think I was conceived IN D/R. Not that we talked about these kinds of things in my family. But the dates don't match up. My dad was an architect and industrial designer. They did produce some stuff in house but it was pretty limited I think. My mother designed the stores themselves (interior). Not Cambridge, but I think the one in Bev Hills was hers.

I never, ever got the "below retail price" vibe (or promise) from DWR or anything I've ever read about them.

I think DWR is still very much fulfilling its mission of ready-to-ship, catalog and web-base access to design furniture formerly available only from to-the-trade sources.

To those of us in major metro areas, that seems like not such a big whoop. And other e-tailers have caught up (and I think DWR gets the credit for creating the category, and driving the MCM bus...). But I still give credit to DWR for design savvy, for practicing what they preach, for supporting design education and design community interaction in a democratic, inclusive way.

I'm surprised, though, that the crowd misses the "inspired bys". While it made better-than-average-quality repros, um, they WERE technically knock-offs.

For all of you who are okay with spending less money on knock-offs (be they from DWR, White on White, Modernica or Room & Board), do you buy "inspired by" Gucci watches and Coach bags on Canal Street?!

Hey patrick (the otherone),

Like I said, I'm not bashing DWR. They do deserve a lot of credit for bringing design to the mass market. They weren't the first (not by a long shot) but they certainly took the ball and ran with it. They just no longer practise what they used to preach.

And as for the "inspired by's", there was and is a place for them. In the case of the "Barcelona Chair", Knoll only acquired the rights to the name in 1948. Before that, the chairs were not part of any regular production that I know of. So, as I see it,they just own the name and are making knock offs of their own but can legally call them "Barcelona".

And yes, I have bought "Coach" bags on Canal Street for my wife. She also owns a few real ones. The fakes are great for general use, who cares if something spills on them. We know they won't last as long but they look great for what you pay for.

And that's what is now missing from DWR. Lower priced options that were inspired by the great designers. That was part of their original mission. Not anymore.

Didn't think or say you were bashing them. Just disagreeing with your comment that you don't think they are currently fulfilling their original mission, since it's all really just a matter of opinion, to a certain extent.

No big whoop.

This debate is why I once proposed that Maxwell get Rob Forbes as his next interview candidate.

p(too): I've done my time in Santee Alley (L.A.'s equivalent of Canal St) and have even purchased a couple of fake Rolexes, Panerais and Cartier Paschas. (I don't wear them now and probably don't even own them anymore, but had fun rocking them at crowded bars and parties.)

Though I wouldn't buy knock-off Gucci and Prada apparel or accessories, I do shop at stores like H&M, Club Monaco and Express that ape many of their design cues at a fraction of the price. Mostly because I'm frugal (ok, cheap). I'm kind of funny like that when it comes to money: I like to have stylish things, but don't like the prospect of carrying a credit card balance.

So, yeah, well-made knock-offs are okay by me--especially if I really like the look of a particular piece. I'm not trying to impress anybody with a chair's authentic designer pedigree. It is, at the end of the day, just a piece of furniture; and hopefully one that will get a lot of use in my apartment.

(...he types while looking up at his Modernica Nelson Saucer Lamp.)

"And that's what is now missing from DWR. Lower priced options that were inspired by the great designers. That was part of their original mission. Not anymore."

Right on the money.

Thenk you Henrietta.

You're very welcome.

re: "We know they won't last as long but they look great for what you pay for."

You're talking about purses here, but, um, wasn't that sort of the Ikea manifesto that came under fire at the start of this whole thread?!?

Hey p (too),

Very funny. Made me laugh. There is a big difference between spending 20-40 dollars on a purse and having it last a few months and spending several hundred dollars on a couch (or any other piece of furniture) and having the same experience.

Does anyone here remember Full Upright Position? It's (or was) very much like DWR - furniture by Saarinen, Eileen Gray, Nelson, Noguchi, Aalto, Eames, even Adler. I have one of their catalogs but can never find them anymore when I google them. Pretty expensive too. Wonder what happened to them.

Can't find anything other than a quickie post that mentions they are going out of business and not returing phone calls on 3/13/02:
http://tinyurl.com/mahgh
Hit stop loading before it tries to make you sign up for something, so you can read that quick post. Or go back in your history and then hit stop loading.

Old Metropolis article mentioning FUP:
http://tinyurl.com/r6xb6

Business briefs, mentioning their ad agency in 2000:
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archrealold.cgi?id=2104
(if you have to re-search, it's prior to 2002, I think, just keep going back, you'll see what I mean)

Their facility photos here:
http://www.thearchitecturedepartment.com/projects/fup.html
And isn't that the chair someone wanted, shown in picture 2, that was on a TV show, the Actor's Studio?

And here's the listing for the Ad Agency:
Nerve Inc
600 Northwest 14th Avenue Suite 200, Portland, OR 97209
phone: (503) 464-1325

They might know what happened.

My guess would be "went out of business."

Feet Upright Position.

Jonathan,

If you decided not to keep the BO Concept chair and still need to get rid of it, I would be interested. My email: bconst@hotmail.com.