If left to their own devices, my husband and kids would put their dishes in the dishwasher with large chunks of food attached. Even after they attempt to scrape off the food, the odd noodle or fiber of meat remains. My old decrepit dishwasher can't handle this. In fact, our current dishwasher requires me to rinse everything thoroughly beforehand, which seems not only labor intensive, but awfully wasteful. A new dishwasher is clearly in order.
I've been eyeing Bosch products but notice none have so-called food grinders or disposals. Does this feature make a difference? Is it worth it? Or are built-in food grinders just the ultimate in dishwasher slackerdom!?
We are trying to encourage our young kids to be more independent and load their dishes themselves, a system that is is hardly foolproof. Training the kids is clearly the best route to cleaner dishes. But the built-in food grinder feature sounds awfully appealing, doesn't it? No need to waste time and water because you can just put dishes straight in after use (though obviously not massive slabs of food, corn cobs or chicken bones!).
If you are happy with the way your dishwasher cleans dishes, I am curious: Does your unit have a built-in food grinder (or "macerator")? If not, do you have to clean out the food filter frequently? Is it a hassle or no big deal? Do you think the food grinder feature is worth it? And are there downsides to the grinders? Do they make the dishwasher significantly louder?
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I have a low end Bosch dishwasher, been using for about 18 months now. It does not have the integral food grinder, and we have not had any problems with food clogging (knock on wood). Then again it's just my husband and I and we always rinse the dishes first, we have not cleaned out the food filter, in fact I don't even know where it is. We use the Finish dishwasher cleaner thing every 6 months or so, it's still sparkly clean in there.
I remember when we first got it and I insisted he rinse stuff off, he insisted the our dishwasher was poor quality since his parents' dishwasher did not require rinsing. And I said - fine, don't rinse, but I don't want to hear you bitch when YOU have to clean out the disgusting food clog. Totally worked. That could be an interesting tactic with your kids.
I rinse stuff off first, even though our dishwasher is new and pretty powerful. I just don't like the idea of leaving food caked on dishes. We don't do a deep scrub but we get food off dishes first.
I think while modern technology is wonderful and I love the bells and whistles, we are (as a society) putting the cart before the horse. It's definitely more convenient to buy a dishwasher with the food grinder, but it's better for everyone in the long run if they develop the discipline to rinse dishes before putting them in the dishwasher or suffer the consequences of cleaning out the food clogs.
We don't have a dishwasher (alas), but my sister has a garbage disposal in hers (sorry-don't know which brand) and she couldn't live without it! You can put dirty dishes that have been sitting for days (ex.-found under one of the kids' beds!) in it without so much as a wipe and they look brand new when the cycle is done! I've never seen anyone clean it out so it must work like a "regular" garbage disposal. Anyway, it''s a two thumbs up situation for her (and for me when I'm visiting and "do" the dishes!)!
I don't understand why it's better for everyone to use the extra water to rinse off dishes rather than just put them in the dishwasher...? Scraping them, sure--but if the dishwashers with disposals built in work as advertised, then isn't that an energy and water saving gain?
I have no idea whether they *do* work, though--I do know that for 30 years or so, every year or two a new model comes out claiming "NOW you no longer need to rinse your dishes first!!!", "FINALLY--a dishwasher that gets even baked on food off without rinsing!", etc. etc.--so I'd want to see it in action before counting on it!
@wvlinz, for me, it's a snowball effect. If we don't rinse the dishes while the food is "wet" then we run the risk of standing over the sink for 20 minutes scrubbing and hacking away at whatever has hardened and I have no idea whether dishwashers with disposals always work. I know I don't have one. It's 5 seconds to run a sponge and water over a dirty plate, and thus not very wasteful. It's that I think people have trouble with cleaning up right away, and thus leave things to harden and that's where the waste comes in, when you have to scrape everything off.
We have a Bosch for about 3 years now. It does not have a builtin grinder but we have not had any problems with food. I am a scraper but my husband is not and so far (knock on wood), the dishes get clean without any problems. no food clogging or cleaning of food afterwards so far.
just FYI - the lines are made partially of a milk product. We live in a rural area and had a problem where a mouse had eaten part of the line. We have not had a problem since but this was an issue I had not heard of regarding the Bosch.
My dog is nick-named prewash for a reason! A tall enough dog will happily clean any remained food items off plates and bowls, saving water and alleviating worries about clogged drains!
Sadly we have the same problem. I doubt a grinder would help as much of the food is also small or dried on. Invest in a dishwasher brush. Leave a least-favorite bowl in the sink and fill it with soapy water. Dunk used dishes in there and use the brush to swish away gunk. It works beautifully for us, and no need to run water every time!
I've always heard that it's *not* a good idea to pre-rinse your dishes, for multiple reasons (scraping pieces of food off before loading the dishwasher is obviously a different story):
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2009/05/dont-clean-dishes-before-putting-them-in-the-dishwasher/
I refuse to rinse dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. I paid a lot of money so I wouldn't have to do the dishes and I am not about to do them.
According to consumer reports, you waste about 6,000 gallons of water per year rinsing dishes:
http://news.consumerreports.org/appliances/2012/04/you-dont-need-to-rinse-your-dishes-before-loading-the-dishwasher.html
Anyway - to answer your question, Consumer Reports is a great place to start for dishwasher reviews.
To me, a dishwasher is useless unless it will get the food off your dishes! I mean, don't put in huge chunks, but having to pre-rinse, scrub, and basically WASH the dish before putting it in the dishwasher completely defeats the purpose!
I love how so many people that have never had a food disposal built in have an opinion. I have had one. I loved it. Yes, scrap of chunks but don't waste water rinsing. It is a dishwasher, not a dishrinser. Make sure it is a quality dishwasher. I have heard of people having problems with ones with built in grinder when the lines get clogged. This is either having too large of food chunks or low end model with small drain lines.
Do it. You will never look back.
Shane
I've known several groups who have commercial dishwashers and their method is the take a designated spatula and scrape dishes over the trash can. Dish then goes into dishwasher without rinsing.
We just replaced the old dishwasher here with a Bosch. The grinders are responsible for much of the noise the dishwasher makes. No grinder = quieter. We are very pleased.
Our old house had the Bosch we had installed. Loved the silence. if you notice food particles on the glassware/top rack, you need to clean the filters and the filter cover. You are already using some form of rinse agent. One store clerk mentioned the local water was really hard and to run an empty cycle with just lemon juice or vinegar monthly or every two weeks.
We have a Bosch with no grinder. We are scrapers, not rinsers - which is an excellent habit to get into as it saves water. I use a rubber pastry scraper and plop it in the dishwasher along with the dishes. No problems whatsoever. There is a filter basket in the bottom of the washer that catches food particles. I take that out and clean it in the sink about once a month, or after a particularly dirty load (like when I washed all the parts from the BBQ). My favorite things about the Bosch are that it is quiet (46db) and uses less than 4 gallons of water. It took a while to get used to the configuration/how to load it.
We just purchased a KitchenAid with a built in food grinder. Love it. I basically don't rinse the dishes anymore and just get the bulk of it off before putting dishes in the dishwasher. The cycles are VERY long. I couldn't figure out why there was a "one hour quick wash" option and now I know... The other cycles are way over an hour!
That being said, my dishes are spotless... Even the mixer bowl with the dried pumpkin bread batter stuck to it,
I don't remember what brand our dishwasher is, maybe GE. (Maybe Whirlpool.) We scrape major food off IMMEDIATELY after eating into either the garbage or the sink disposal, and store the dirty dishes in the dishwasher until full enough to run. Rarely have a problem, and then usually it's a couple of grains of rice or something else with known stickiness... I always soak anything with raw egg and flour (noodles, cake mixes, etc.) and rinse before loading because that combination forms a serious glue! But that's about it.
I have an older Kitchenaid Superba model dishwasher with built-in food grinder. The grinder mechanism on this model does not require cleaning. Using the machine is very care free and my dishes come out sparkling every time despite dried or baked on food residues. Yes, I do scrape the dishes but rinsing is never needed. My dishwasher doesn't produce a lot of noise but is louder than the Bosch models. I generally don't run my machine until I'm done with cleaning up, therefore I'm out of the kitchen anyway, making a silent dishwasher unnecessary.
I think it's important to keep in mind, and I think you'll discover reading Consumer Reports, that having a care-free dishwasher means purchasing a model with all the higher performance features which together make for care free usage. This model heats water, contains a food grinder, has adjustable shelves and tines, a porcelain body with sound and heat insulation, upper and lower spray arms, and 8 cycles.
Good Luck!
I dump any excess food on my plates into the trash and put the dishes into the dishwasher without rinsing them. I've never had a problem with the dishwasher clogging, but I also don't put dishes in the machine with chunks of food stuck to them. I also don't have a lot of food scraps either.
I have a Kenmore that was the top rated model in its class from Consumer Reports. I don't regret buying it at all!
I have actually had to clean out the food filter and replace the hose for my dishwasher...if you don't want to scrape the food off your dishes you should get one, otherwise hope you don't have to clean it out - the smell was, shall we say, intriguing.
@Beatrix that's only if you have a great dishwasher and if you put delicate dishes in the dishwasher; for the rest of us with cheap dishwashers, those items will be smashed to bits and the dishes will still be filthy after the wash cycle.
@Emmi we have a regular, very basic dishwasher (we rent)- nothing fancy. It was newly installed when we moved in, we don't rinse dishes, and it's worked beautifully for 8 years (the mechanisms are outlasting the rack tines at this point). We love to cook, so we put all kinds of things in there- certainly not just delicate things.
The advice not to rinse was given by the old guy who installed the dishwasher and said he'd been doing this for decades. He also advised us to give it a good clean every year, get the gunk out of the traps, etc. His advice has been great so far.
Yeah, pre-rinsing is definitely up there on my lengthy list of reasons I need to get a dog as soon as I'm in an apartment that allows it.
I have a Kennmore dw, medium priced when I bought it 10 years ago. No food grinder. I have never rinsed anything before placing in dw. I even do my pots in there. No problems yet.
Kitchenaid superba! Built in grinder you don't have to dump any filter. Best if you have house sitters or you don't want to think about maintenance! Also Bosch is great but I didn't buy because the interior is much smaller than an average dishwasher. This means you can't fit as much in.
Consumer Reports led me to the Bosch that I have and fully appreciate. Super quiet water saver, and yes, we randomly do need to clean the filter, but no issue. Great info is also obtained by asking salespeople what they have/want. I common response was the Bosch, but a suprising group said they wished for the KitchenAid. I found out American models have the food grinder (European ones do not) and are usually 4" deeper so they hold more dishes. If you have a family, I heard the extra space is desired.
It is our family policy that dishes get scrubbed AFTER a spin in the dishwasher (if they need it), not before- otherwise what do you have a dishwasher for??? Anyway, we don't have a disposal in ours, but we take out big chunks of food and put dishes in without scrubbing. I would say we have a 95% success rate. The remaining 5% gets scrubbed AFTER it got disinfected in the high-temperature dishwashing cycle, and we never had food clogging issues. Do what works for you!
Our F&P Dish Drawer at house #1 w/o a macerator did clog once, but it was an easy fix given the incredibly simplistic design of the unit. Our Bosch at house #2 didn't have a macerator either, and while it didn't clog, it always had a funky off odor that came out a day after running the cycle leading me to believe that the cause is food residue left behind (It didn't clean dishes that well either). Our current Kenmore at house #3 is about 10 years old w/ no macerator. It cleans ok with no odors.
We don't rinse at all; that is the dishwasher's job, not mine. We do scrap, but not with a rubber spatula, just our dinner knife or fork. The dishwasher does the rest, and I have only cleaned out the macerator once since I owned it.
I have a 12 year old Kitchen Aid dishwasher with a food grinder. I would love to get a new Bosch dishwasher with a custom built in panel to match my cabinets, but the lack of the grinder has prevented me.
I have used both a Bosch (with no food grinder) and a Kitchenaid (with a food grinder). Both cleaned dishes equally well and both were equally quite (the main consideration for both choices). Cleaning the filter was a bit unpleasant but not terrible. I prefer not having to clean a filter but it shouldn't deter you from choosing the Bosch.
My Bosch is coming up on 20 years old. I think they are well made and very reliable. The only problems I've ever had with it came from a contractor re-connecting it without the air-gap after working on the cabinets. It needs the air gap, and the sink drain to be completely clear, to work right. Otherwise it has been fine. I have a dog, otherwise scrape and only rinse if something substantial is stuck on. I expect to replace soon and will be getting another Bosch. The model I have has neither the grinder nor heated drying. I had to get used to the air drying, but it saves energy. I never missed a grinder and the strainer rarely needs attention. The new Bosches are even quieter than my old one, which was a HUGE improvement over any American model at the time.
I have a Bosch and I love it. It has no grinder but the filter is easy to remove and rinse off. I do it every couple of months or so. If I had to buy a dishwasher again, I would spend my money on a Bosch.
I bought a Miele a few years ago, but also looked at the Bosch. Regarding your question about the food grinder: the Miele installer told us the grinders spew little food bits up into the dishwasher and that they are undesirable for that reason. He also told us not to rinse our dishes, because a little detritus is necessary to make the detergent work correctly. We never rinse. I have a three-year-old, which means dishes sit and get crusted with gunk. I put them in for a short rinse cycle to loosen the gunk and then run the regular cycle. Everything gets clean, 98% of the time, and I never, ever do more than scrape off the big pieces and occasionally clean out the trap at the bottom of the machine. I figure the machine uses much less water for a rinse than I would standing at the sink, so I think it's a good deal.