Growing up, I was always told that it's rude to discuss politics and religion at the dinner table. It's certainly a standard of etiquette espoused by the Miss Manners of the world. I have one friend who says he won't converse about politics and religion with anybody he hasn't seen naked. I guess that probably rules out Thanksgiving. But does everybody feel that way about table talk?
When I'm with my family, I stick to subject avoidance for peacekeeping reasons. My parents are Christian conservatives. I am an agnostic Democrat. And while I love them to pieces, we disagree on a lot of things. It doesn't ever get ugly, mind you, but it does make us all a little sad. Like, how can we feel so differently about such important stuff? So we just steer clear.
At least I'm not a solo left-leaning black sheep now. My husband-to-be, the professor, is very liberal and opinionated. His mother is also a Republican, but he ribs her if she says anything he finds contentious. Will he continue to abide by my parent's unspoken rule — which I remind him of often — or will he just hold his tongue 'til the ring is firmly on my finger? I wonder.
When my family does get together on big holidays, the conversation is anything but dull. Most of us are pretty darn witty following a glass or two of wine. And it's not like we're a bunch of prudes. Even my mom has been known to crack ribald jokes after pie and port. Sometimes the conversation gets downright raunchy. But I really can't remember ever having a discussion about politics or religion, ire-raising or otherwise. Then again, holidays aren't really known for heavy.
I wish I could eavesdrop on Thanksgiving dinners across the nation this year to hear what people actually talk about — and don't. Asking Apartment Therapy readers is obviously the next best thing. So how about it: Do you have any spoken or unspoken rules of conversation during family gatherings? Do you have any great anecdotes? Please dish!
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No religion, no politics, and you keep your opinions of other relatives or relatives' significant others to yourself.
Never with my immediate family, but at the "grownup table" my aunts, uncles, parents and grandparents talk waaaaay too much about religion and politics.
The one time I sat at that table I got sucked into a conversation about why white girls shouldn't date black boys... oh my... never again.
Totally avoiding politics this year!!!
maybe it's just my Boston Irish Catholic family, but religion and politics are welcome topics at all times.
Since we can't talk about politics and religion I just talk about sex.
What about orgasms?
No joke at all, my family is exactly like Meet the Fockers. My parents a super liberal democrats and are both psychologists. My wife's parents are very conservative republican Catholics. A few years back in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner (and before the movie ever came out) my mother started talking about how great her massage therapist is and how he does something with her ears that caused her to orgasm. Yes, this was our dinner table conversation among the normal "what are you thankful for" topic. Talk about an uncomfortable Thanksgiving.
I should be collecting royalties on that movie, it is pulled directly from my life.
Don't talk about anything that might upset grandma.
My brother and mom love to argue for the sake of arguing, and it's almost always about politics or religion. That said, they save it for breakfast after when most of the family has left and argue to their heart's content. No need to bring that on to other people, especially when they aren't one for arguing (me and my dad).
As for the grandma thing, other than religion and politics, I think you have to keep bad family news out of it. It is not the time to hear one family member accusing the other family member of something. That just forces people to take sides and ruins the whole idea of the day.
Plus, why is anyone talking?! Their mouths should be full of scrumptious treats.
Those subjects aren't a problem at the family dinner table, but are to be avoided at any other dinner table. And, since this is Scotland, we avoid discussing football! (Soccer in the US).
when i was a kid, my parents had rules about dinner conversation. it had to be respectful of others, upbeat in tone, and limited. (people didn't talk over each other or hold court.) My parents had a wonderful group of interesting friends that talked about travel, art, music... Thanksgiving was most pleasant at our house-- I have a lot of good memories.
My brother in law tries to stir the pot and talk politics, but the rest of us are too uninterested in what he has to say to bait him. The old ladies at the table (who prepared the meal) will talk about how nothing tastes as good this year, we must have left something out, blah blah blah. It is the self deprecating southerner to the extreme. I miss the Thanksgiving of my youth where we talked sports, politics (local is always best), pop culture, you name it - and there was definitely a lot of laughing.
My grandparents are conservative Catholics from Iowa who ended up raising four liberal children, and now have a passel of outspoken grandchildren. Holiday dinners are either hilarious and fun, or volatile and end with someone either in tears, leaving the table, or both.
I stick to drinking good wine and talking about food or home improvement.
It seems like anything goes in my family during the holidays. From heated arguments about healthcare to my 80 year old grandfather talking about why his 70 year old girlfriend loves his mustache. Just thinking about that made me throw up in my mouth a little.
I try and keep quite because I usually don't agree with what they're saying and it would be 12 against 2.
"I have one friend who says he won't converse about politics and religion with anybody he hasn't seen naked."
That's funny because I usually wouldn't let anyone see me naked unless we have talked about religion or politics.
I do know a family who love to have dinner parties, but believe it isn't a successful party unless the verbal sparing gets physical. To each his own.
I'm the black sheep conservative in a family of broken glass liberals. I'm glad I have in-laws with which we spend the Holidays.
Politics is ok. Religion is not, unless you want a bible study lesson. Usually, sex and money are frowned upon topics of discussions.
My family tends to talk about pretty much anything. The volume is unsettling for the new people. I explain it this way...whoever is loudest is correct. Then they know...
Pretty much anything goes at our table. The multi-generation sex chat (albeit: funny) is generally more painful than the politics/religion. Opinions are freely shared and fiercely debated. A few of us have a 'nod and wink' agreement to act as conversation monitors--we gently redirect the crowd to make sure things don't get too out of hand. After having attend a few very stoic/silent/formal holiday dinners, I am thankful to have such frank conversation--it defines our family!
i think the rule is no discussion of sex, politics or religion in polite company.
If you don't consider your family polite company, then I guess knock yourself out.
But remember - some things that you think are benign opinions could really open wounds on someone across the table.
For example... I don't want to listen to my brother kvetch about how all those on unemployment are milking the system and clearly there are full time jobs at Taco Bell for everyone... if they weren't holding out for something in their career field. I finally shut him up by telling him that I don't think someone who doesn't even have a resume should have an opinion on that.
Talking about family news (new babies, people moving, new jobs, etc.) are all nice topics. Especially if you have non-relative guests who know some extended members of your family. Talking about vacations or events, good. Sports, yes. This year we will have an extremely outspoken beer nerd in our midst, so we'll see how that goes (no one in my family follows home-brewing or microbrews, but this guy could also talk to paint on a wall).
Talking about a tragic death of a family member (every year) is part of my in-laws' Christmas tradition. It makes me feel uncomfortable every time.
Religion and politics? To each his own, but they don't usually get brought up in our festivities.
I'm trying really hard to figure out what we talk about at big family dinners, but all I can come up with is the food. We talk a lot about the various dishes, complimenting the cooks. Weather. Sports. Mostly small talk, really.
My own family never throws family parties because most of the relatives are either deceased or live in another country. That's probably all for the best because my mum used to like to talk about current events (i.e., which politician she wishes would have a heart attack and die) or health topics (i.e., the importance of bowel movements). My BF really loves her but she freaks him out.
Good old mum is gone now so I'll be at the BF's family party making small talk and listening to old family stories, which I really enjoy.
My boyfriend's family is full of liberals except one uncle and his wife that are fox news watching, rush limbaugh listening republicans. After many years of uncomfortable silences when the uncle brought politics to the table, the uncle has decided to skip all future family holiday meals because he was sick of no one agreeing with him. It's sad for the family. Except for in politics, they were both nice people and great company. They will be missed, though the uncomfortable silence will not.
I'm the black sheep of the family, so while I love arguing with them in general, during the holidays when other family is around, I prefer to avoid those kinds of discussions.
Small talk is considered cold and almost fake by my family. It seems too rehearsed. Maybe it's cultural, in South America we talk about politics and religion even with strangers. I can't imagine a dinner full of "pleasantries" like the weather, pets, jobs, and such topics. I'd feel I was trapped in Stepford. Our gatherings have always been loud, passionate, with someone yelling, someone crying, someone walking away, and later coming back. I've been to friend's dinners where the family is quiet and civil. Boring!
In my family, it's my older sister trying (usually unsuccessfully) to keep my dad and step-dad from making too many dirty jokes, which offend my sister's elderly MIL. None of us have any desire to talk about religion ever. We avoid politics most always.
In my husbands family, he often provokes his parents and sisters with political commentary he knows they don't agree with, and then enjoys the silence that comes after. I live in fear that they'll try to have religious discussions with me, and I'll have to tell them my problems with their religion, and then I'll be kicked out before pie.
Anyone have any suggestions for interesting but non-controversial subjects? You run out of catching up pretty early when there's a whole weekend to fill...
not in company of Americans (West Coast people we know well are exception, & I mean the coast, not costal states)
yes in company of Europeans
Well, my "family Thanksgiving" is me and my domestic partner, and since we agree on all the forbidden subjects, chances are we will just eat, comment on the food, and then watch a movie or something! No rules!
I no longer visit my father and brother, all that's left of my immediate family, because we have grown so far apart it's not worth the expense of the visit, especially on my income -- we have nothing to say to each other, we don't very much like each other, and we have radically different viewpoints on the world -- I'm a liberal, have my master's, vote Democratic; my brother is a trade school educated conspiracy theorist, my father a high-school graduate conservative Republican. A few phone calls a year work fine for me! And before you think that seems sad, not everyone has or needs or wants a stereotypically happy family.
@lemonadefish: I find that travel is nearly always a popular topic of conversation. even if someone doesn't travel extensively, they have probably taken a weekend trip recently. It's rarely controversial. Other safe topics: food/cooking and interesting/funny news stories (non-political). One thing I've learned as a journalist is that most people don't need a lot of prompting to talk about themselves, and everyone has at least *something* interesting to say. Another thing I've learned as a journalist is how to steer the conversation when it needs a new direction. That's also useful at the dinner table. :-)
I second the travel talk as a conversation topic. Since Thanksgiving is a chance for many of us to gather, our experiences (travel, shows, books) make excellent conversation.
We also usually ask our 'old people' (my parents live in a retirement community so they bring 'a spare or a pair' who would otherwise be alone) to share memories of holidays when they were younger. It may seem corny to some of the more cynical readers, but sharing life stories builds tolerance and community and makes us linger at the table.
I'm kind of shocked by how old-fashioned these posts are -- no politics? no religion? the world is exploding -- wars, famine, poverty, liberation from tyranny. Half our american cities are currently being occupied by people who've been screwed by the system and have legitimate complaints. Why would you want to give in to conservatives when they're responsible for so much sexism and homophobia in our world? who cares if it's your grandmother --? Adults should be able to carry on adult conversations. Why would anyone subject themselves to a holiday in which they say nothing??? What a sad state of affairs. Makes me lose my appetite.
My family is all liberal Dems, so we used to love to talk politics. Nobody talks religion, because they're all afraid of getting the family atheist (me) going on that topic. The thing that my boyfriend never got used to was what I like to call "The GI Report"--they all like to compare digestive problems at the dinner table. Plus, because he's the lone Brit, they'll bring up any random tidbit of news related to the UK and expect him to have an opinion on it (as if he's the designated rep of the UK at the table). Now that my father's in a nursing home, my honey and I do holidays with just the two of us and talk about everything. :)
We usually talk about whichever family members aren't present for Thanksgiving dinner.
Sex? At the dinner table? WASPs in Massachusetts don't do this. Besides, what's to say? Sex: hell, yeah, we're in favor... We refrain from politics and religion, mostly because we and our S.O.'s are all on the same Democratic, atheistic page, and because my brother's father-in-law is conservative. (Although I'm sure Occupy will come up this year. Should be interesting.) Instead, we stick mostly with pop culture. When that gamut runs from Clint Eastwood to Justin Beiber to Joan Didion and the Muppets, everyone can have their say. And does. After dessert, my brothers and I pull out our Macs and download each other's music. It's all fun.
If people have one relative who spouts off outrageous views, whether it be your racist grandma or your holier-than-thou politically correct nephew, the trick is to delve further into their beliefs. Ask them pertinent questions to discern WHY they hold these views. Take it very seriously. They won't be used to such cross-examination and will inevitably flounder, and the look on their faces when they realise what's happened is priceless.
I have heard some hilarious family stories by asking questions of older aunts and uncles about how they met.
At our house, someone always asks what you're reading or good movies lately
In general, new inspirations, gadgets, toys, hobbies and enjoyable work are fun/safe themes
We're all nerds, so we usually end up discussing literature!
Our family stopped talking about religion and politics the year my ULTRA-conservative brother was holding (loud) court about a womans right to choose.
I tried to speak and he said---again---"No, wait, let me finish!" so I stood up and yelled, "Oh my god! You NEVER finish!"
We later hugged and agreed to not agree.
We didn't have "rules", but we almost never talk about religion or politics - neither topic is particularly important in our family. Some family members go to church, some don't - not a big deal. We have more than 2 political parties in Canada, so there's no "we don't vote the same therefore we are enemies" mentality. When my family gets together, we spend our time catching up - talking about our lives, our friends, work, etc.
Table rules at our family meals are more along the lines of: take off your hat; clear your own plate; pass food clockwise.
@kingtiny - I think you're making a lot of assumptions. First, most people do have these conversations with others but know their family members well enough to know their opinions and to know that not everyone is always capable of having a civil discussion.
And because holidays are a time in which people should be kind and generous to one another, there's a bit of kindness in keeping the peace when you know that talking about certain topics (it doesn't have to be politics or religion. it could be completely inside the family) will make people upset.
When everyone can have civil and polite discussion, it's fine. Just because you SHOULD be able to talk to everyone about various topics without anyone being upset or angry, doesn't mean you CAN or that it actually happens that way.
@Pi-
Perfectly stated.
@Uccellini, how do you change the subject? Because, if I have to sit through another rant about computer problems or run-ins with airport personnel... ;-)
Usually I wait for a pause -- everyone has to breathe! -- and politely interrupt. "Oh my goodness, speaking of airport personnel, this one time I got patted down in Belgium. Has anyone ever been to Belgium?" Hopefully, if there's a crowd, someone will say "No but I love Belgian waffles." ;-) That's probably a lame example, and it's hard to explain it, but I usually wait for something -- anything -- that I can use as a prompt for something new. Computer problems? Speaking of computers, isn't it sad about Steve Jobs. He was such a visionary. Etc.
@kingtiny: This is exactly why politics should not be discussed among company you don't know! I consider myself conservative, and you should know that not all of us are sexist/homophobic/evil.
My liberal, agnostic parents have the same 'us or them' ideas about political parties, and I had to 'come out' to them to get them to stop blindly blaming my corner of the belief system for the problems of the world.
At the end of the day, being contentious and making assumptions is what makes the dinner table uncomfortable, not the politics itself.
eeeehh, this was exhausting!!..all the noise and opposite views! It was JUST like already having Thanksgiving dinner with a LARGE varied family! I'm all set now..I don't feel bad not having this this year..that much..; > )
@Uccellini ~ brilliant ~ thank you ~ I look forward to implementing your technique ;-)
@kingtiny - talk about narrow focus. . . . . do you think that what's happening in the world is the first time it's ever happened? Like it's the first time people have been freed from tyranny, or complained about their circumstances? I'm older than most people here (I probably have callouses older than most of you) and let me tell you this happens all the time. Nothing new, just recycling the 70's in this millenium.
mjs7640, you migth show up next time in a t-shirt that says "a women's place is in the HOUSE ... or in SENATE" & see the look at your brother's face
I think AT is trolling!
With my family anything goes. The members that are actually interested in talking politics (and actually know what they're talking about) are interested in a respectful exchange of ideas, not a fight.
Although, if i was going to be home this year I would avoid the topic of the occupy movement. I'm UC Davis Alum and my favorite cousin/BFF for life is a cop. I have a feeling that convo could get hairy!