Amanda is looking for a new home city: Inspired by your small cities out West post, I was hoping all the apartment therapy bloggers out there could help me out. My husband and I are looking to move to a larger city when we he finishes school. Having most of the country to chose from, I'm a little stumped and overwhelmed as to where to start looking. We are considering places like Austin, San Francisco, Portland, Charlotte, and so on...
Email questions and pics with QUESTIONS in subject line to:
sf(at)apartmenttherapy(dot)com)




Umm.. this question seems a little too open ended.
What are your professions?
What type of hobbies do you have?
What type of activities/ entertainment do you like?
What type of weather do you prefer?
Honestly, you should probably find jobs before moving and so you should be looking to what cities have those types of jobs.
view Laura's profile
I recently moved to Portland, OR from the midwest and am loving it so far. It's a good sized city, but has a smaller town feel, and the landscape is beautiful!
view acsmi24's profile
My advice would be to have the "fantasy cities" talk where you get to just make a list of things that would thrill you. Maybe it's being able to go to galleries and shows and museums any time, maybe it's no have great weather, maybe it's a place whee owning a house (as opposed to an apt) is important, etc. Then once you find a running theme you can narrow down your choices. It may seem obvious, but if you would go insane without access to outdoor space (your own private yard, terrace, etc), then I wouldn't move to NYC for example.
I noticed that there is a huge variety in the cost of living in the cities you mentioned. After you get your wishlist done, then you can start narrowing down by things like price. Not to mention jobs. I wouldn't move to a city without at least one job lined up in advance (preferably with relocation if it's a corporate job), unless you have considerable savings.
view mjr's profile
Any big enough sized city would provide us with jobs. I will have my MBA and he will be looking to open his own optometry practice. I want to live in some downtown where I can walk places. Like acsmi24 said, a big city with a little small town feel.
view GreaterYesterday's profile
I say that when you narrow it down to 5, go visit all 5 cities for a weekend trip just to get a little taste of what it would be like.
view mvastudios's profile
Raleigh, NC is pretty darned awesome.
view Mocena's profile
Laura's absolutely right - you should consider your professional prospects in any city you choose, as well as weather.
For example, Seattle and Portland are wonderful cities, but if either of you find your mood negatively affected by a lack of sunlight, neither of those cities would be healthy for you (lots of rain, dimness, etc.)
Do you want to be in an area with a lot of quick movement, hustle and bustle (for ex., NY or DC), or a more laid back area (San Fran/Berkeley), or perhaps more outdoor activities (west coast cities are great for that)...
view jplee's profile
Yeah, I'm with Laura...plus, salaries vary by region, especially in some professions, so if you're expecting to make a certain amount and for that to, say, cover a house, then that narrows it down.
view Enamorada's profile
Laura is right, there are a lot of factors with this kind of question. My hubby and I were in the same situation last year with the luxury of a lot of options. I am an ecology/natural resources dork, he is a data developer geek... we were looking for places with these career intersections. My husband also had a requirement of days of sunlight per year. I wanted ecological security with water and other resources. Once we selected a few cities I actually hit "thenest.com" to ask ladies of those cities for opinions on a few matters of community involvement, neighborhoods, etc. We worked it out so that we even had CSAs with vacancies contacted before we moved.
Good luck with refining your criteria and then finding a community.
view kmarie's profile
Yeah I agree with Laura about needing a little more info. But, if you're just looking for personal recommendations, Portland, OR is my absolute favorite city in the US (and I've visited most of the major ones).
Portland is a big city at a very person-sized scale. Eclectic neighborhoods, a great art and music scene, a commitment to urban open space and parks, a population with a sustainability mindset, beautiful scenery, a wide array of nearby outdoor activities, and a slew of amazing breweries to boot! If you don't mind a winter full of rainy weather, it's really a gem. I plan to move there the minute the housing market picks up.
view kellylc's profile
Depends on what field you are graduating in and what kind of weather you like.
Texas, specifically Austin, is always pretty good if you like it warmer (sometimes viciously so). It has a pretty economy and is probably the most culturally diverse part of Texas. Of course, it's been nearly ten years since I have lived there, but Texas tends to be pretty stable. It is also conservative country, so if your political sensibilities tend to be more Dem and you get ruffled easily, I wouldn't advise it. I was surprised when I was there, that Texans are pretty straight forward easy to get along with people (I am from the Midwest).
Indianapolis, my home town, is the most affordable large city in the US. You can get a 1920's 4000-6000 sq ft mansion on Meridian-Kessler for less than $500K (okay... lots of those creep up into the 1 - 1.5 mil range). On the other end, you can get a nice little (1000 sq ft) condo downtown for around $150-200K. Property taxes have gone up, but are still lower than most cities. The job situation can be bad depending on your field. Education, medicine, and defense contracting are the huge areas. Nurses can find work anywhere here, along with pharma reps and researchers. Eli Lilly, ITT, IUPUI, Safeco, Roche, Rolls Royce, Raytheon, etc. are all here. Outside of those areas (or legal profession) the job market is becoming pretty brutal. We do have serious Winter and serious Summer.
Chicago is like Indianapolis on steroids. I consider it one of the greatest cities in the world, but it has all the problems of Indy, but with more culture, more Winter, lots more people, and consequently, more opportunity and higher cost of living.
Boston was really nice. Ugly Winters, INSANE cost of living, but East Coast mentality which makes up for about all of that. It's a difficult place to make a living, but even barely making it, you'll have a very rich life.
San Francisco has the best weather anywhere (ignoring the occasional earthquake ;). Living expenses are also INSANE x2. If you are in tech, then either Boston or San Fran will find you lots of interesting opportunities. If you are more West Coast in your attitudes, then it is a great place. I clashed with California-ites flakiness big time so it didn't work well with me, but hey, everyone is different.
Don't forget Raleigh-Durham, Atlanta, Miami, etc. I don't know much about Portland or Seattle, but both are supposed to be nirvana for outdoorsy people. Western Massachusetts is also incredible for the nature set.
Oh yeah, almost forgot about NYC. I found it to be completely overwhelming, but it doesn't get anymore diverse than NYC outside of Europe. I am sure the New Yorkers on here will hook you up about info on the City.
Good luck with the decision and try to have some fun with it.
view Jason's profile
I grew up near Seattle but I live in Saint Paul, MN. Seattle is seriously the most beautiful city to me. Two mountain ranges, sparkling water, an easy drive to the ocean, Portland, OR and Vancouver BC. Portland, OR is cool and beautiful too. Both cities are great for outdoor activities, cinema, art, music, etc. Lots of overcast days in the winter for Seattle and Portland. Not a lot of snow or cold.
The twin cities (Minneapolis/Saint Paul) are suprisingly great in their own way. Great people (Minnesota nice is true), great art, theater, music scene and people love love love the outdoors...I'm sure in part because the winters are so.......gawd awful. Noone likes subzero. The summers make up for it. Plus there is a lot of affordable housing here and when I moved here about 3 years ago people said there are always jobs available.
view sleeping spot's profile
I understand how to go about picking a place, I was just looking for a little help naming places I should investigate. Growing up in the suburbs of Atlanta and not traveling much didn't give me much to go on about the rest of the country.
view GreaterYesterday's profile
I agree with Laura, but I will take this opportunity to plug my old hometown, Philadelphia. It's a big city that isn't so huge that it's overwhelming (NY), is divided into neighborhoods with very distinct characters (Art Museum, Queen Village, Old City, University City, Italian Market, etc.), and is pretty inexpensive compared to other major East Coast cities. It's also really vibrant these days, too--diverse, lots of younger people, an excellent, eclectic and affordable restaurant scene, museums, theater, major sports teams, boutique-y shopping as well as big box stores. Two drawbacks are the taxes and eh public transportation (people tend to drive there, despite the narrow streets).
view slowdown's profile
I am not american, but after moving across Canada a few times I have a few pointers.
Make sure that what your profession is, it is needed in the city (ies) you are thinking of relocating to. Every area has its own diverse range of businesses and some places require different professions. Although all locations could require what you are able to do, many have the need for it vs the other cities where work might be scarce.
I would visit the city, at least online and through video if possible. Get online and talk with locals and find out what they like/dislike about their community. even branching out and asking on Craigslist would be ideal. Realize that there is always a hater of every city, but you might get some real good feedback.
If this is going to be a long term move, find out if you want to live near water, or cold climate? Warm climate? I am ok with humidity and lots of it, but are both of you?
view khrystena's profile
Big city with small town feel... Well, my idea of a big city doesn't include a small town feel, so I might not be the right person to be posting here! But if what you mean is a small city with a small town feel that still has things like art and sushi and culture and good shopping, etc., then Austin is pretty nice (love that pretty much year-round warm-hot weather), San Diego, parts of LA (because you can have that neighbourhoody feel, but with access to big city stuff (but I don't know how much walking goes on there), and also if you are thinking of NYC at all, Brooklyn (namely Park Slope) can have that walk everywhere neighbourhood thing with obviously everything you can think of just a short subway ride away. But it's still NYC, so with that comes things like high-priced everything and for some people, difficulty making new friends...
view mjr's profile
Jason, I have to disagree with you on SF's weather. I am so bored of the weather here. I find myself longing for hot Central Coast summers (hot and dry!) and freezing winters.
On the other hand, if you live inland, the fog isn't a terribly frequent visitor and the temps hover between 50 (at night, even!) and 80 (only during a heat spell). It does get shockingly windy, though.
If you're used to a small town, you might want to try Alameda. It's where I live now and I love it. It's a small town, certainly, but with a cute downtown and only 15 minutes by bus from SF. I found that I couldn't handle actually LIVING in a major city although I'd always though I'd like to. Living near one and working there has worked out well for me.
Jason was spot on about the living expenses, though. They are through the roof, though coming down a bit courtesy of the economy. Which is another thing you should concider. California has an unemployment rate of 10% right now, higher than most places in the country. SF has a lower unemployment rate than that, but it would still be something worth checking before you move.
Good luck!
view Tiamat_the_Red's profile
I have lived in Denver, Chicago and Dallas and I now live in San Francisco (for the past 2 years). I can tell you that both Denver and Dallas have some wonderful things about them, but everything seems so spread out...its the same with Austin (and i LOVE Austin). You definitely cannot walk everywhere. Chicago is definitely BIG CITY...and amazing...i just hate the winters. San Francisco is a place like no where I have ever been. All the neighborhoods are split up...china town, nob hill, the mission, the haight..etc. Each one is unique and wonderful. I can spend a day in northbeach and then the next day in the haight and feel like i am in a different city. I dont even own a car anymore, since everything is walkable, and the public transportation is amazing. There is always something going on, like parades and museums and shows. I really enjoy living here. We have great weather (a little cool most of the time..which I like) The food here is great...any type you can imagine. Most of the buildings are pre-1960, so you can find an apartment with pretty amazing character. There is art and artists everywhere. Plus...you can drive to the mountains and go camping...or skiing...or go to the ocean and to the beach...or be in the middle of the city with great shopping...or drive north and do wine tasting in Napa Valley...it is all right here. big city with a smalltown feel. If you havnt been here, you should come visit the city. only thing bad...it is just SO PRICEY!!
view JasonSF's profile
Thanks for all the suggestions! I never even though of some of these places!
view GreaterYesterday's profile
I also think that you should put Denver on your list to consider.
view Doug's profile
I live in Tucson and love it like it's going out of style. But it's a place of extreme contrast, and people seem to either hate it, or they never want to leave.
I love it because of the people that choose to live here - laid-back, creative, slightly off-center individualists are the norm. It's easy to live a simple, minimalist, unhurried life.
Oh, and the weather. It's 85 degrees today.
view missmouse's profile
It's maybe a little smaller than other cities listed but my sister used to live in Grand Rapids MI and I always loved it there. There's a cute downtown area, you're only a short drive from some gorgeous Lake Michigan beaches in the summer, the cost of living is reasonable, and you can get a GREAT house on the cheap (I was considering moving there a couple of years ago and found a gorgeous 1900s farmhouse on 5 acres with a classic restored red barn for $229K!). Plus there's a good amount of business, commerce, a university etc. You have to like winter though. It is Michigan.
view tequila red's profile
you should move to San Francisco! its an amazing place to live. I live here! haha. weve got everything you could ask for and the people are delightful!
wherever you live you the first thing you will need is a painting done by me to make your new home exciting!
http://www.myspace.com/robotanimals
swabyjustin@gmail.com
view swabyjustin's profile
"San Francisco has the best weather anywhere"
You know the easiest way to tell who the tourists are in San Francisco?
They're the people freezing to death in shorts and t-shirts - as they're lined up to buy souvenir sweatshirts.
"The coldest winter I ever experienced was summer in San Francisco"
- Mark Twain
view bepsf's profile
Please don't assume you can get a job just because you have an MBA. I live in North Carolina and there are a HELL of a lot of professionals in my area who are unemployed due to lay-offs. Certainly research your cities, but if I were you, I wouldn't move until I had a job offer in my hands.
view Nougat's profile
Madison Wisconsin is a bit smaller than most of the places being discussed (population of around 250k), but it's a beautiful city -- the heart of the downtown is sandwiched between two large lakes. It has a pedestrian mall connecting the capitol building to the large university campus, one of the largest and most amazing farmer's markets in the country, a great variety of ethnic restaurants, and is quite an affordable place to live.
view slief's profile
I live on the East Coast now, but I'm from San Antonio. Every year or so, we go back and drive up to Austin. I'm always surprised at how much I love it. The people are friendly, but funky, and so is just about everything there. It's warm in the summer, which I'm used to, but if I had to live any place but here (which isn't an option right now), I'd go for there and be happy. Plus, cost of living is CHEAP.
view inkstainedwriter's profile
Do not move to Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont.
How about Minneapolis?
view bemyescape's profile
...And unless you plan to live off your trust funds for a while - it's a very bad idea to move to an unfamiliar city without jobs lined up - especially nowadays. Employers aren't paying for folks to move anymore, so they often won't even consider people from out of state. You're also not going to be able to lease an apartment in most large cities without established incomes.
Remember too that if you don't have a job, run out of money and you've moved just arrived from out of state, you will not be eligible to receive state unemployment compensation.
You're better off settling in a town near your families for a while, then looking at making the big move after the economy has recovered a bit and you've established yourselves professionally.
view bepsf's profile
I am a proud Oregonian, so I've voting for Portland. I lived there myself for four years in college (I live in Eugene now, second largest city in Oregon). Lots of unique neighborhoods, each with a different feel. If you want to live "downtown," there is the pricey Pearl district, and it has lots of higher-end restaurants, Whole Foods, and clothing/home decor shops. But some of the more interesting neighborhoods with lots of walking/cool things to do (and more reasonable housing) include: Hawthorne district (very eclectic, kitchy); Nob Hill/NW 23rd (more fashionable, older buildings); for a gorgeous older house set in an established neighborhood, I recommend the Laurelhurst neighborhood; and for an up-and-coming place for fun, multicultural arts and urban development, the Alberta district is where its at.
Check out http://www.portlandneighborhood.com/ for more info and see which area strikes your interest. Portland has great arts and natural beauty, and a really good public transportation system (light rail, streetcar, buses) and strong bicycling community, so getting downtown and moving around the city is very doable.
view Godwinkr's profile
Nougat, I'm not palnning on moving for 2-3 years, so I sure hope the economy has picked up by then! I'm starting to investigate a new place 1: Because I live in one of the most miserable cities and it's fun to dream of better things (most miserable according to Forbes.com), and 2: I'd like to investigate a cool new city on my honeymoon in the fall!
view GreaterYesterday's profile
please don't move to portland. we're all good here.
view winehangover's profile
http://www.findyourspot.com
and
http://www.bestplaces.net
view FrivolousNecessities's profile
I completely agree with slief - Madison, Wisconsin is where it's at! I went to undergrad there and have been living in San Francisco for the last 3 years. Although I agree with everything positive said about SF, it's so expensive. And I really, really miss the changing seasons. Madison is consistently voted one of the best places to live and one of the healthiest, too. Bike trails, running paths along the many and beautiful lakes, fresh & local food, etc make it an awesome choice. There are a lot of new condos around Capitol Square that are way more affordable than other, bigger, cities while still having all the amenities and often stunning views of the state capitol building and the lakes. A great place to raise a family, too. I'd move there in a heartbeat again if I could....
view lakegeneva3's profile
dear lord, NOT charlotte. i'm a north carolinian, and i just loathe the place.
if you're thinking of an n.c. move, i'd recommend raleigh/durham or asheville.
view abigailbelle's profile
I've been living in Austin for 5 years.
Don't move to Austin if:
- You don't like hot weather (we're 80 about 10 months out of the year, and three of those are probably 90 ),
- You want to buy a house (Austin was rated the #1 strongest housing market by Forbe's. The housing market has been UNTOUCHED here, and real estate is sky-high.)
- You don't have a job lined up first. (There haven't been many lay-offs, and companies are hiring, but there are so many people moving into the city as of late, it might take you a long time before you finally line up a job.)
- You don't like hippies or liberals. (Despite Texas being awash in Conservative Red, Austin is a little Liberal Blue island that expresses itself in transvestite homeless mayoral candidates, gay pride parades, and abundant grumpy old hippie culture.)
Other than that, it's the sort of town anyone could love. :)
view Zhahira's profile
One technique I've used successfully when a seemingly overwhelming number of choices arises - start by eliminating places. It seems a negative approach, but it's really not unlike decluttering a room so you can actually appreciate it enough to make it work.
view AZkathy's profile
Austin is fairly stable in the current economy. One of the lower unemployment rates in the states also. And Austin is the California of Texas. Many Californians move Austin due to the similarities from their home state, but a lot cheaper cost of living. Austin is diverse (artistically), but not super diverse (as far as culture). It is a younger town with an average age in the late 20s to early 30s compared to most other places that are mid 30s to mid 40s. My Dad, who is a Texan and Conservative and who lives in Houston, refers to Austin as Yuppie-ville. :)
I second the factor to look at a city based on where your desired professions might be.
view kambykitten's profile
I have lived in numerous places and have liked aspects of all of them. Here is my list, based on where I have lived :)
1) Denver-- Super friendly, great weather, tons to do, and great views.
2) Madison WI -- progressive, affordable, easy to drive to visit other places.
3) Minneapolis -- Not as friendly as Denver (they would beg to differ) but casual and welcoming. Fairly progressive, no sales tax on clothes, a million things to do. The only down fall?? The winter lasts a long time.
4) Phoenix/Scottsdale -- Good nightlife and restaurants, spread out, lots to do, but the heat can get overwhelming.
5) Indianapolis -- Better in the city... not really suburban areas outside but like grown up small towns.
view thelittlestmonster's profile
A few SF/bay area things to keep in mind:
*Expensive- small spaces for large prices (I love in Lake Merritt in Oakland and like it so far- it is cheaper than SF and has a small towney feel to it). Your husband may have trouble with a start up as all spaces are pretty much old spaces and most commercial places in high traffic areas are not for sale so you may have high rent costs out here.
*Right now...there are not many jobs at all. Many of the people I know here has moved to the East coast because there are a gazillion more jobs over there. Look and see if your profession has viable options here. You and all the other MBA's, PhDs, graduates in general may have to fight for the lower paying jobs depending on experience.
*How will you get around-public transit is big here.
*Children- if you plan to have children and settle down more permamently look into the schools here. Eventually me and my SO want to move to Berkeley BUT if we stay there and have kids the public school system there is not so hot so I would consider putting them in a private school which runs about 14k a year ;(
view frozenemotion9's profile
i previously lived in slc, ut. no place compares for outdoor adventures.
i currently live in boise, id--great downtown area. also great for outdoor recreation.
google them.
view k8theriver's profile
I vote for Portland, San Francisco, and Manhattan (my home sweet home). Also, I've heard good things about Austin, TX and Charleston, SC.
view Kit's profile
There's great places in Calfornia, but the tax situation isn't good for anyone wanting to open a small business.
Pasadena, Laguna Beach, San Diego, San Luis Obispo, Santa Cruz, Davis--any college town is good.
Portland is nice enough, but the economy is stagnant. If people don't have jobs, they don't buy new glasses.
San Antonio, Salt Lake City (no, it's not all polygamists), Boulder, Colorado Springs, Des Moines, Houston (humid, though), Greenville Miss., Savannah GA, Charleston SC.
view Palmetto's profile
You don't say where you're at right now, but that it's one of the most miserable places, so on the odd chance you're not talking about Pittsburgh, PA, I'll throw that out there. I don't like it here, but everyone else seems to love it. They rave about all the arts/culture stuff, and the nature stuff (we have lots of trees and hills and mountains), and the sports teams, and there are towns that will give you a small town feel while being 5 minutes from downtown Pgh.
However... our weather can be iffy (lots of gray days), our traffic can be a nightmare, most everyone who lives here has chronic sinusitis (including me, yay!), and there are a lot of colleges (which could be a plus, depending). Also, the downtown area itself is not conducive to living... most things close at 5pm, there is no grocery store nearby, and Friday nights sometimes the police dogs and riot gear show up due to high school ball game rivalries. But how often do you normally get to see big dogs chasing guys whose pants are falling down? Not often, I'm sure.
But again, allegedly people flock here and never leave and people love raising their kids here, blah blah blah.
Personally I rec' Los Angeles, did not find the 'smog' to be an issue, I walked pretty much everywhere and took public transpo a LOT (which is cheap and frequent), and found the ethnicities, local neighborhoods, and availability of arts, beach, and nature (hiking, the mountains) delightful. Everyone was SO friendly, a guy got out of his car to help me pick up some groceries that bounced out of my wheelie cart on the way home from the store. Loved the weather, the blue sky, the gorgeous sunsets, the near constant breeze, all the foreign language channels on TV.
And I understand San Diego is nice too. Especially for outdoors people. But I hear they have killer bees, so.... yeah.
view That70sHeidi's profile
i live in portland and love it, but it's not for everyone. the weather makes people retreat to their homes for many months in the winter, so it's difficult to make plans because people will flake.
there are fewer and fewer jobs here. it's an overeducated/underemployed state. don't move here if you don't have a job.
there are positive aspects as follows: rad farmer's markets, beautiful architecture, amazing vintage, the best coffee, it's easy to navigate, walkable if you're in the right neighborhood, feels small but has many big city amenities.
view mannequingirl's profile
This site is interesting if not having to drive everywhere is a factor for you.
http://walkscore.com/rankings/
view home body's profile
Suburbs of Atlanta? So winters are usually about 50 or so for you... aka, some of the midwestern/eastern cities' winters will be a super shock to the system. That's important to consider, as are all of the other things people have mentioned.
That said, i'll give a shout-out suggestion to my current town, Pittsburgh. It's the perfect big(ish) city with a small town feel. Tons to do, lots of little neighbourhoods that feel like its own little town, not too big but not too small. I've been here 4 years and still like it a lot, and that's after living all over the place in many different cities. It's just a nice, cheap, interesting place. Rents are super cheap as are houses to buy. The job market is growing and it's one of the few places in the US not affected too badly from the economy. We're getting really involved in green spaces and buildings... crime is low. Tons of colleges around so some culture trickles its way in.
Winters can be a little rough, but nothing that can't be managed. I dunno, I love it here and am glad I've found a job so I can stay here a while longer at least!
view molotovnights's profile
If you want to live in California, I hope you are doing extremely well financially. Not only is the cost of living here much higher than any other part of America, our sales tax just went up and our income taxes are about to go up (again). You don't want to know about the property taxes.
MBAs with good jobs around here tend to come from the better colleges (Stanford, UCLA, Berkeley, etc.); lesser schools mean much lower salaries and fewer offers. The competition is fierce.
Good luck in your search, but please think realistically, not ideally. San Francisco is where I was born and raised, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone not pulling down a minimum of $200,000 a year.
view Sydney's profile
You want a city with a small town feel? I'm going to suggest the opposite -- a resort town that has a big-city sophistication. My personal favorite is Newport, R.I., and I know some people who love living year round in the Hamptons. But you can pick based on what your hobby preferences are (skiing? sailing? arts scene?)
Right now, resort town property is dirt cheap, because a vacation house is the first thing people dump in a recession.
And since you have skills that don't necessarily require a big city, why not choose based on lifestyle?
view Lisa (Montreal)'s profile
Denver, but only if you like sunshine and being close to any outdoor activity imagineable. We also have friendly people, some great restaurants (gotta love Rioja!), a good airport that enables quick trips to fun places, a pretty stable economy, a fantastic mayor, and lots of lovely parks. Just live within the city and not in the burbs - then it's just like any other suburban craphole only with better weather and closer to awesome skiing.
view asizzle's profile
If you are considering California, visit Santa Barbara. Having moved here after living in San Francisco, I have found that it's not more expensive (although it is expensive compared to most other places...think $1200 for a decent studio), the weather is delightful, plenty of parking, downtown is totally walkable, farmer's market is amazing, and the people are so friendly. But if you crave seasons, this is not your place. Also, if you find the right neighborhood, LA is pretty cool.
view alexarc's profile
Another Portlander here to wave you on. We're 5th in the nation in foreclosures and unemployment is at 10.8%. Shops and restos are closing left and right. And having an MBA won't get you shit right now.
If I were you, I'd look into Austin (for all the reasons described upthread), Savannah (not a great job market, but it's very sophisticated for such a small town), Pittsburgh (burgeoning arts scene, very livable) and Baltimore. Alternately, stay close to family. Speaking as someone who moved 3,000 miles away from family on a whim, it would have saved me a lot of stress and hardship if I'd had that safety net.
view FiatLex's profile
I have to give a shout-out to Austin. We especially have the "big city with a small town feel". We have a newly vibrant downtown (the 2nd street district), and an affordable, at least in relation to the rest of the country, cost of living. Mild winters are paid for by very hot summers, though, so if the thought of 100 degree heat causes you to wilt, you might want to reconsider. Everything is air conditioned, though, so you don't have to try and stay comfortable without that very important creature comfort!
We also have a great job outlook, lots live music, tons of outdoor activities, and eclectic and vibrant theatre and arts communities. Come visit and good luck with your decision!
view BadJuJu77's profile
I live in Boston but am from the SF bay area. I would not be interested in living in Boston if I weren't in school. I don't think I would be able to tolerate the college vibe once I become a professional. San Francisco, however, is my destination of choice. I can't wait to move there! There are so many different neighborhoods, all with different vibes. Definitely spend some time there. YOu will fall in love!
view jrstar45's profile
Phoenix is crap.
Just so you know.
view mpoggie's profile
...Although, if you want to buy my house so that I can leave:
Phoenix is AWESOME! You should live here.
view mpoggie's profile
I am originally from Huntington Beach, California. It has the small beach town mentality but it is smack in the middle of the Southern Cali coast so you can be in LA in less than an hour. Two hours from Big Bear skiing, a jump from Vegas and a breath from Mexico. The weather is lovely and the people are friendly.
With that being said I currently live in Dallas, Texas (don't ask) but I am warming up to it. Lots of jobs, housing is very reasonable and lots of entertainment.
view MochaCaliGirl's profile
Well, with all due respect to abigailbelle, I live in Charlotte and I LOVE it. I can't imagine liking anywhere else as much. It's just a great size - big enough to have lots to do (restaurants, shopping, etc.) but small enough that it easily becomes home. Downtown is booming and super fun! Plus, if you ever want a house with a yard, you can find that (affordably) within a few miles. My house is 4 miles from downtown.
As background, I grew up in south Georgia and lived in Richmond, Charlottesville and Montgomery, Alabama for school. My husband was born in NYC, grew up in northern NJ, and lived in Philadelphia for school. We met here and - since we moved here - both my sister and his brother and their families have moved here as well. My sister came from the D.C. area and his brother came from Philadelphia by way of Columbus, Ohio. And we all love it!
view tzd's profile
Once again another Portlander chiming in with some of the commenters above that while it is an amazingly lovely city, it probably would not be anywhere close to being a sure bet right now.
Unemployment is higher than the national average, and many many people with fancy degrees are fighting for barista jobs (no hyperbole, one of my friends who works at a coffeeshop said that when they recently put up a job ad they got hundreds of replies from a majority of people who are sadly vastly overqualified).
Housing is not particularly great either. The bubble burst, but not the same way as in other parts of the country where you can scoop up totally decent forclosure houses at
If you're really riding high and make a ton of money now and have loads of savings, you could probably do it (or say, win the lottery). If not, I'd suggest trying back in a few years.
view arttarte's profile
I've lived in Salt Lake City for nearly six years now. It was supposed to be temporary, but it has grown on me. I have a great circle of friends, bought an inexpensive house close to downtown, bike everywhere including to work, and have access to some of the best outdoor recreational areas anywhere. You won't make as much and the politics are crazy, but it's definitely got it's good sides.
I also loved Seattle when I lived there. I'm not sure how the economy is these days though. I'd skip Phoenix though. Way, way, way too much sprawl there.
view Jen (SLC)'s profile
NC--Winston-Salem, Asheville, Wilmington
PA--Pittsburgh or Philadelphia
TX--Austin!
Va--Richmond or, possibly, Va Beach
NM--Santa Fe, Taos
????? Because, really, it all depends on what you like--
view wvlinz's profile
I know it's not in the west, but have you thought about Nashville?
I've been here for five years and I love it - definitely big-city- small-town-feel.
The downtown area is growing with both new condos and renovated condos. There are also a few walk-friendly neighborhoods close to downtown.
In the last year, three friends have moved here after visiting and falling in love with the city!
view Camilla Jo's profile
Let me warn you against SF. All the positives have been mentioned, but not many of the negatives besides cost.
The homeless situation here is getting out of control. If you walk downtown, you will be approached by panhandlers about twice a block. There is a severe lack of greenery outside of Golden Gate Park. Many streets don't even have trees or a lawn. I find the architecture boring and stale (I'm partial to modern design). Any new construction here looks like it was grabbed out of the suburbs so it won't offend the NIMBY's. Restaurants close early, don't expect many choices past midnight. It's an early to bed town for some reason. The public school system is horrible. The public transportation (Muni) system is incompetent and hated by most people who live here. The BART subway is pretty good though.
Well, outside of those things, it's paradise on earth ;-)
view etslee's profile
Depends on where you can get a job, but if I could live anywhere, it would be Austin. Plus, Texas has no state income tax--one less thing to file.
view sypage's profile
ya i wouldn't go with portland...seems like its cold and rainy pretty much always these days. But ya Portland is dirty...and full of jobless hipsters, TONS of strip clubs and bars...doesnt really seem like it would fit with where you are in your life...unless you really like hiking and biking up mountains above all else.
It's always sunny in Philadelphia (as they say lol) its very easy to walk anywhere, lots of great historic and cultural stuff to do thats very inexpensive, and there are JOBS, your husbands business would prolly do well as that type of stuff seems relatively unaffected by the economic downturn right now.
Nice cities in the south SC, NC St Louis would be good, as I always hear good things about them but don't really know personally. Austin and other Texas cities seem fairly bumping and housing is CHEAAAP.
I wouldn't recommend Michigan unless you have a bunch of savings and are looking for a long term investment, stuff is dirt cheap there now but everything has shut down and there arent jobs its going to be a long haul out of that.
view RalphEMole's profile
RalphEMole- What's so wrong with strip clubs and bars? :)
view kellylc's profile
"Right now, resort town property is dirt cheap, because a vacation house is the first thing people dump in a recession."
There aren't jobs there either unless you want to work in the local grocery store or Indian Casino and live in a trailerpark.
Folks don't move to resort communities to start a career, earn a decent living and buy cute little starter homes - They've made their money elsewhere and bring it with them to buy their luxury condos and vacation mansions.
view bepsf's profile
Oh, and if after reading all this you think that moving overseas might be a good idea - I read an article recently that US expatriates are fleeing places like Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai like crazy...
...the Dubai International Airport parking garage is filled with thousands of luxury cars abandoned by guest-workers - credit cards left in the passenger seat with notes saying "I'm Sorry" because the person can't pay their bills.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/world/middleeast/12dubai.html?ex=1392181200&en=316b5ba361f103f8&ei=5124&partner=facebook&exprod=facebook
view bepsf's profile
I echo the shout-outs for Savannah. I grew up here, but I have lived in VA (Roanoke and Richmond), Athens, GA (great college town) and Atlanta and came back by choice. It is not perfect but it is a beautiful city with a good arts scene for its size and really short, mild winters.
view H.H. Hannah's profile
I second everything people have said about Madison. I would add that the city has great public schools, which is good because property taxes are high. The city is just so pretty--lakes everywhere, rolling hills, tons of natural areas within the city limits. The winters are long but sunnier than Chicago and milder than the Twin Cities, most years. And because of all the huge parks and recreation areas, it's a winter-sports mecca, especially for cross-country skiing, snowshoeing, ice skating and whatever that ice-kite-windsurfing thing is called. The summers are divine--just gorgeous.
Because Madison is home to both the state government and the major university, there are a lot of public sector jobs, although right now they are in short supply. The biotech field is really big here, if that's something you're interested in. Madison is also a very easy city to live in without a car as long as you are not out in the 'burbs. The bike trails go pretty much everywhere and there is a good Community Car service that is really popular.
One of my best friends from college lives in Austin, and I would say it has a similar "vibe" to Madison except with a better music scene and a slightly bigger-city feel. On the downside, I don't know how anyone bikes anywhere there--it is NOT bike-friendly, for a place that has a perfect climate for cyclists. And whenever I go there I am acutely aware that the rest of Texas looks at Austin with derision.
view madsarah's profile
Indianapolis is a great "small" city. As one of the earlier posters mentioned, it's the best bang for your buck if you both gets jobs lined up here (that's key, of course, right now.)
We recently moved to Broad Ripple, which is a city within a city full of young professionals. It is a walkable village with a very large paved bike and walking trail, the Monon Trail. We love this area and were able to buy at 2700 sq. ft. home for around $200,000. The prices are unbeatable.
Indy offers the arts and many of the other amenities of a large city without much less congestion. A very manageable city. www.indy.org
view voughts at home's profile
Texas baby! And here's the proof:
http://www.businessfacilities.com/bf_08_11_news1.php
But skip Austin unless you love over-priced real estate, bad roads (they like them so much they build them twice), and terrible traffic. You can drive to Austin and visit though.
Consider: Amarillo, Abilene, Waco, Tyler, Corpus Christi, Lubbock, Midland, Galveston (good prices on real estate now), League City, Denton, San Marcos, New Braunfels. Even San Antonio---which is the smallest of the three largest cities in Texas (Houston, then Dallas). Corpus Christi is a great "little town" at 300K
But if you move to Texas, it's best to move in winter, so the summer can slowly creep up on you. Then it doesn't hurt so much. After one summer you'll be fine.
view SunnyBlue's profile
If not NYC, then Minneapolis.
view Phoebe 's profile
Denver is pretty nice - I moved here from Detroit, and went to grad school in New York, and I love the safe, small town feel that it has, compared to other cities.
It's got a great art scene too...great, wonderful, AWESOME weather (it was 72 today!) and some very walkable areas. We live in the belmar area, and it's nice - I only fill up my gas tank every 2 weeks or so...
view blueroses1's profile
From experience, I can tell you anyplace you decide on will have good points and bad points. Life is what you make of it. Go with the flow, it might just be right where you are at. The best of luck to you and your husband.
view ojanet's profile
appleton wisconsin, small enough to be homey, large enough to be a city.
view jen of the north's profile
Please consider Boise! We moved here from Texas 7 years ago, and still love it! It's like what Austin used to be.
view scootergirl's profile
If you choose to be on the east coast, Philly all the way.
It's only two hours away from NYC and DC, the downtown area (center city / old city) is good, best restaurant scene ever, and the cost of living is relatively cheaper than other big cities. Perfect big city with small town feel.
view Alexis9's profile
Wherever you decide to move to you would be wise to invest in spending some time there first. We have moved many times (in Europe) and have made a few mistakes. My daughter moved from NY city to Portland. She likes Portland but misses New Yorkers she finds Portlanders a bit pc and hard to read she says you always knew where you were with New Yorkers.
view hrhprincessfiona's profile
Milwaukee, WI! You get the big city and the small town feeling, the lake, plenty of art museums, summer festivals, great food and that midwest friendly attitude! I lived in PA my whole life and never felt like I was welcome there, I have lived in Milwaukee for 3 years now, and I finally feel like I am home! Madison is great too-or anywhere in WI for that matter! :)
view Wisconsin Kate's profile
Scootergirl, thanks for the kind words about Boise - I'm heading there in two weeks for a six month internship! Can you recommend any favorite places? Specifically food and entertainment, I'm afraid I won't be doing much shopping except at secondhand spots :)
view Sunshinedaydream's profile
Another vote for Madison, WI here.
We just moved to Madison about a year ago. We have never been so happy! My husband works in Middleton (which is what brought us here- a job transfer) and we didn't know the area very well. We only had one day to find an apartment, and ended up on the far West Side. Getting to the East side and Downtown is fairly quick and easy, which is nice. There are bike paths everywhere if you are into that kind of thing. A very bike-friendly town for sure.
Winters are cold but nothing that can't be dealt with- I had to laugh when I read madsarah's reply about the windsurfing on ice thing- I saw it for the first time this winter and thought it was so neat and have been wondering what it's called. Glad I'm not the only one who has no idea.
Anyway, summers are a lot of fun here. There's always something to do. Concerts on the Square every Wednesday for 6 weeks, which is a great time. You just show up with some blankets, wine and food and kick back and feel a great sense of community. It's neat. There are parking garages everywhere that are cheap so it's easy to get to where you want to go if you don't live downtown.
Lots of really great restaurants, too. Eating outside on a sidewalk downtown is always fun.
A few areas with cute shops as well. Madison is big on the "local" scene, which makes me happy. We have great local beer here too if you are into that! The farmer's market is fun, but if it's too busy for you or you have a weekday off, each town surrounding Madison has their own market as well on a much smaller scale.
The other thing I love about Madison is that you can drive 15 miles and be in the country again. It's nice to take a break and go for long drives and see all the farms. And Chicago and the Twin Cities are close enough to go on a quick trip if you want to go somewhere with a bigger city feel.
view Erin Lang Norris/Yellow Canoe's profile
Pheonix is the kidnap capital of the
North America right now. Considering everything else thats is going wrong with it you would have to be crazy to move anywhere near it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4979VW20081008?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true
view abcoabq's profile
Baltimore. :-)
To be honest, I'd suggest discussing what you like/dislike about your current location, and then maybe post that on these boards. Then people could help fit your personality to a city.
view baltimorerowhouse's profile
Austin's full. Don't come.
view pvett's profile
Portland, Maine.
probably nearly impossible to find a job there right now, but it is my favorite place ever.
small, quiet, fun, great beer, great beaches, boats, lobster, art scene.
ahhh love
view mally313's profile
I love San Fran. haven't lived anywhere else in the US, though, so I'm biased. I even like the weather here!
view Lilli K.'s profile
How did I miss this post? That's so weird, my name is Amanda too and I've been considering cities to move to, 3 of which are on your list- Austin, Charlotte, & Portland. (And I'm hoping to vaca in SF this summer with the family).
I'm from Houston, TX and I go to Austin every few months to visit friends. Austin is a really fun city with a lot to do and some great food and bakeries. However, Texas is HOT! Hot (as in 90s & sometimes 100s) and very humid (often about 100% in summers-in Houston, probably less in Austin cuz I went to school by Dallas and barely noticed the humidity, but my friend from that area was dying when it was like 80% humidity). Also, if you love a long cold or snowy winter, don't come here. It's rarely long or very cold, but you just never know with the weather here. Also, most people drive, though Austin is working on improving pub trans. Compared with the rest of the country, housing prices are pretty good too.
I've been researching Portland and I think I'd like it cuz I love those gray sunless days! And they seem to have really good public transportation which is lacking here.
If anyone is still reading this, does Portland have mudslides or earthquakes? Also, even though there isn't much snow, is there a lot of ice on the roads in winter?
I've also been considering Charlotte & Raleigh, NC since the weather is milder than way up north, but they still have seasons which I would really enjoy. Plus, they have mountains and the beach and several cities not too far away.
view TrueTex's profile