apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I've replaced most of my lightbulbs with dimmable CFL's that are encased in an outer bulb that makes them look more like a normal bulb.

I still have a few incandescents that are hanging on and will be swapped for CFL's when they give out - Then there's a couple odd-sized bulbs, bulbs in the fridge, oven and range hood and halogen bulbs here and there that can't be swapped.

We still use the older ones. It's a mix of laziness and convenience. And just not wanting to pay $14 per bulb!

CFL's make my eyes hurt. I'll try them when they improve the light quality enough to stop irritating me. They use to cause migraine headaches so have improved somewhat.

First, no matter what the packages say, I'm convinced that the fluorescent bulbs don't last nearly as long as they say they're going to last. Perhaps that's because I've purchased most of those bulbs at IKEA. Maybe the considerably lower price impacts longevity, regardless of how long they say they'll last. Second, unless the fluorescent bulb is enclosed in a globe or bowl (or the right filters through a globe or bowl), and unless the bulb or globe cuts that harsh light, a fluorescent bulb simply looks godawful. Way too 2001, A Space Odyssey. But what I want--what I REALLY want--is a fluorescent (or LED?) bulb that can replace all of the halogen floods in my recessed ceiling lights. Yesterday, I scoured Lowe's and Home Depot for an alternative to those floods, but found nothing.

I found some CFLs that have a covering so they don't look bad n the chandelier. But a few old fixtures just won't work with CFLs, and a couple lamps have clip-on shades, and need to be retrofitted for CFLs.

I saw a display that had CFLs and incandescents in fixtures w/frosted glass globes. I could not tell which was the CFL, and that convinced me to convert as many lights as possible. I can see the change in the electric bill, and it's a really easy way to go greener. Prices for CFLs are dropping, and there are more choices in wattage.

Due to the price, I've been slowly switching to CFLs. Buying one or so a month doesn't hurt as much as buying a dozen at a time. The quality of the light doesn't bother me at all, unless I mix different brands of CFLs.

I use CFLs outside, in the laundry room, basement, den, hallways, and in all of my closets. But for reading lamps and overhead in the main rooms, I just can't bring myself to switch from incandescent. they are warmer and I prefer a direct source (better for the eyes, I think- at least it feels that way). I do have dimmers on everything that uses incandescent, so I try to limit energy usage that way.

You all know that incandescents have a law passed that will get rid of them soon, don't you? 2012! The wiki has a lot of information about them... and the laws passed in favor of them.

Personally I am upset that the government is getting involved in what kind of light bulb I will be able to choose. Especially with the mercury problem with CLFs.

Oh God no, I find CFLs utterly horrible. They literally make me ill to be around and I avoid them at all costs. I no longer go over to certain friends' houses for dinner if they use them.

I help the environment in other ways... I eat local, take mass transit and use natural, renewable materials. Just get those damn CFLs away from me!

How about the mercury problem posed by burning coal to provide electricity for your incandescent bulbs? It's a trade-off I'm definitely willing to make...

I am another who guiltily hates CFLs - I kind of think I might turn into a crazy lady who hoardes incandescents before 2012 arrives...

kittyj - OMG I have already started hoarding incandescent bulbs... Everytime they are on sale I buy a case...

Although I use a combination of both right now, I recognize that debating the merits of CFL's versus incandescents is sort of like debating between the steam locomotive and the horse and buggy... they're both going to be obsolete once the next generation of LED's are perfected (in terms of brightness, color temperature, backward compatibility, etc).

LED's have lifespans of a half-century and use a tenth of the energy of CFL's, without the environmental (mercury) issues.

http://cbs5.com/local/LED.light.bulbs.2.664659.html

No guilt here.
I use incandescents with dimmers.
Great light, and the dimmers make the bulbs last ages.

I think I'll have to start my incandescent hoarding soon, too.

I thought I hated the CFL's until I made myself go out and buy a test batch. Now I hardly notice the difference.

I installed CFL in most fixtures in our house...but ended up switch back in several rooms to incandescents. I found the light from the CFL not as sharp and colors looked strange.

Y'all are making Al Gore cry. :)

I use CFLs except in the fixtures that show the bulbs - though I did just find the globe covered CFLs and will be changing those out too. I agree that the CFLs don't last as long as claimed, but they certainly use a lot less energy and do last a lot longer, plus I don't feel guilty about them.

As long as I don't buy the ones that claim to mimic natural daylight and are actually just a harsh white, they don't bother me in the slightest. Those of you who are threatening to hoard incandescents - have you tried CFLs? Perhaps change them out one at a time and see if it really does bother you. Without being all self-righteous-the-sky-is-falling about it, I'm not sure we can afford to keep using bulbs that use so much extra energy.

CFLs are a little funky and i only noticed that after swapping everything out. they make my eyes hurt a bit, but i bought the dimmable kind and hope it will be better with dimmers.

but the worst light was an LED strand i got for free thru the local government. swap out one strand of xmas lights for the LED kind. I had to unplug them after 10 minutes. I started to get nauseous, there was a little bit of strobe light effect and I gave them to goodwill. Now I am very wary of anything LED and the CFLs don't bother me as much anymore.

wow dudes chill out, there aren't any legal bans set in place for the US yet, but really cfl's are good, put a tan shade over them...problem solved looks the same as any old incandescent. Mercury emitted mercury in 1 cfl = LESS than mercury emitted from 1 incandescent bulb (btw fyi). Or better yet turn off your lights, save some electricity and light a candle for your dinner party.

I replaced almost all the bulbs in my apartment with CFLs from Home Depot. ("Nvision", I think they were called.) I still have a few halogens, but NO incandescent bulbs anymore. You really need to get the warm white ones (look for color temperature of about 2800K-- 3200K is OK but not as warm as an incandescent). If you get the "daylight" ones, the light will seem weird indoors. I hardly notice the difference between the warm white ones and incandescents, and I work as a video editor and cameraman so I'm sensitive to that kind of thing. I do notice that the ones that are encased to make them look like incandescents ("A type") do take a short while to warm up when you turn them on. The spiral twist variety seem to work just about the same as incandescents, but you need to have them in a fixture with a shade or they look kind of ugly-- then again, so does a regular incandescent bulb. Certain kinds of lamps, of course, are just not ideal for CFLs.

I just think you have to be careful about exactly which bulbs you use, because there is quite a variation. My electric bill has gone down quite a bit, so I expect to pay for the new CFL bulbs in 5-6 months. I'm pretty happy with my Home Depot CFLs and I doubt I would ever go back to incandescent bulbs at this point.

No hideous, mercury-filled CFLs are allowed in my tiny home. There are plenty of other ways to be eco-friendly. Hoard away, I say.

I use CFLs in all the places where I'd leave a light on for more than a minute, and I buy the CFLs with the fake covers for exposed light fixtures. For lights that are quickly flicked on/off, I'm using incandescents until they burn out. Like david c, I'm using Home Depot's nvision line since you can buy them in multipacks, and the warm ones work fine for us.

I feel kinda guilty though for throwing out perfectly functioning bulbs.

i have tried using CFLs, but they give me headaches, AND i think the light is ugly. i have a 3 bulb fixture that i've been able to use one CFL if the other two are incandescents, but i will look for the color temperature (thank you david c) and try again.

We have CFLs in all closets, our garage and pantry. It was the best I could do. I get migraines every now and then and apparently these CFLs make it worse, aside from not feeling ok about the light they emit. I'm trying.

i don't like them nor do i think they are as great as we're told. the light is so harsh. i prefer those daylight bulbs or the halogen ones for track lighting. frankly, i'm disturbed by the murcury. & that you have to take a drive somewhere to dispose of them doesn't seem so efficient either.

*thanks for being honest about your bulbs. :)

I loathe CFLs... I have tried them on more than one occasion, hating them every time, and then donating them to one of my friends that doesn't care about the hideous color of light. I hate how they are dim when you turn them on, I hate that they buzz, I hate that you cannot easily dim them (I tried the dimmable ones and hated them too), and I hate how they give my home an uninviting feel.

That said, I do use a flourescent tube in my kitchen nutch, and a CFL in the closet. But given that I only have five other light bulbs (with a combined total of less than 250 watts) on my single 20 amp circuit, in my 274 square foot apartment, I refuse to feel guilty. I make up for it in other ways by walking, taking public transit, recycling, and not owning a car.

As for the CFLs shaped like a flame bulb for chandeliers... Come on folks, they are beyond hideous, a complete and total affront to all ones senses. They bear, in no way what so ever, any resemblance to an actual incandescent flame shaped bulb... Both in appearance, color, and quality of light. I want to scratch my eyes out when ever I see them.

We use CFLs in every socket except the hall light- which goes on and off for a few seconds every hour. We have one in our room that is from the early 90's, big, ridiculously so, that we are waiting to burn out bc it is so ugly and oversized. Shades, etc don't fit over it.

People with lupus are extremely light sensitive and many are made quite ill by fluorescent lighting. Their one place of refuge is in their own home. If forced to convert to CFLs, it will be like taking poison.

But there is some good news about LEDs. That technology is advancing very rapidly and may be easily available in the marketplace before we all have to convert to CFLs (which will then be obsolete!)

No CFLs here thank god!

We have both. We have a dimmer in the living room and we did not have dimmable CFLs, and now I know they exist. We didn't buy any new incandescents though, we have some left over. We have halogen in the kitchen, CFLs in the bathroom... The light doesn't bother me so far, however the noise (ok, light humming sound), does. I haven't seen any other comments about it, but I swear they make a noise that incandescents don't. Deaf as I am, it can get to me.

Being cheap like i am, i got all my CFLs at IKEA and pretty much braced myself for the worst of the worst that i've heard -- harsh light, etc. To be honest, i think they work great! The light is a nice gold, not at all blue, and is nice and bright (i used to buy 100 watt incandescents, so i like bright light). If they're too bright for you, get dimmable CFLs and install and swanky dimmers!

I guess this is just a VT thing, but Burlington has made CFLs available to landlords to hand out to their tenants for free. So, I've replaced all my bulbs that fit inside glass fixtures, leaving incandescents in the bathroom, above my bed, etc. The only difference I notice is that the CFLs take a few seconds to "warm up" -- that is, they aren't fully bright right away. I think it's a good mix.

You would think places like CA, VT and OR would be worried about mercury contaminating into the environment and would ban CFLs. But I guess saving energy is more important than preventing the pollution of water sources and endangering the lives of pregnant women.

You can get a 4 pack of the CF's at Home Depot for under $10. For the money saved over the course of just one month, it's worth it by far.

They're coated to emit more of a traditional light cast these days. Really, it just requires a minor shift in mental approach. They're not bad once you get used to them. As a graphic designer, I don't take it lightly how light changes the colors in my environment.

I have them everywhere except in the lamp over my dining room table which is on a dimmer switch.

Does anyone have a guide or recommendations for specific brands AND recommended wattages for CFL bulbs? I see some posters like Home Depot and Ikea, but I bought a pack of Home Depot CFLs and hated the light it produced! But I think I bought the brightest one...

I only use CFLs in closets. I've tried most of the brands, but I'm sorry ... the light is just not the same ... I can't stand the way it makes my place feel in the rest of the apartment.

My daughter-in-law's heart is adorably in the right place---I noted, the other night, that she's replaced all their incandescent bulbs with CFLs--in the lamps that they rarely or never actually use. . . .

Oh, and i have one in the hood over my stove, because that's one place I don't mind bright, blinding light.

i believe when incandescents first came out, everyone thought the light was harsh and ugly - compared to the gas lighting they were used to. It was probably the same when they switched from oil lamps to gas. you'll get over it! The only fixtures I don't use them in are the ones where the bulb is exposed and over my kitchen table where I do my painting and crafts, I use a full spectrum one there so the colors are more accurate.

Most of my photography portfolio is hanging on the walls of my apartment. If you didn't know, photography and a number of other artistic media are particularly susceptible to fading from UV light from fluorescent bulbs. Therefore the only places I have fluorescent lighting is in my bathrooms and kitchen. CFLs and other alternative lighting also don't work with crystal chandeliers and other decorative lighting, so this industry has a long way to go.

Nevermind that researchers recently found a strong link between fluorescent lights and breast cancer!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/19/AR2008021902398.html

People who complain about ill effects on their health from CFLs need to find something better to complain about.

Abraham Haim, a University of Haifa chronobiologist involved in the study, said the findings raise questions about the recent push to switch to energy-efficient fluorescent bulbs, which suppress melatonin production more than conventional incandescent bulbs. "This may be a disaster in another 20 years," Haim said, "and you won't be able to reverse what we did by mistake." He called for more research before policies favoring fluorescent lights are implemented, and for more emphasis on using less light at night.

"You would think places like CA, VT and OR would be worried about mercury contaminating into the environment and would ban CFLs. But I guess saving energy is more important than preventing the pollution of water sources and endangering the lives of pregnant women."

Wow, I think this wins the award for most shortsighted statement I've read in a long time. 'Cause, y'know, saving energy doesn't do ANYTHING good for the environment.

Come on, people, get a grip.

bramasoleiowa, Vermont cares. According to my local solid waste district, where they have special collection centers for all light bulbs, since you can't just toss any ol' glass bulb in the recycling, CFLs are the way to go.

a few q&as from the VT Department of Health and Environmental Conservation: (http://www.mercvt.org/PDF/cflampfactsheet.pdf)

Q. How will using compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs) affect mercury pollution?
A. A trace amount of mercury is contained in each CFL, less than 5 mg. The amount of mercury in a CFL is 1/5 the amount in a watch battery...
The largest source of mercury pollution in the environment is from burning fossil fuels such as coal, the most common fuel used to produce electricity in the U.S. A coal burning power plant releases 10 mg of mercury into the environment in order to produce the electricity to run an incandescent bulb in comparison to only 2.4 mg of mercury to run a CFL for the same length of time.

Q. Should I use incandescent bulbs that don’t contain mercury instead of CFLs in order to be safe?
A. No mercury is released when CFLs are in use... Using CFLs reduces the amount of mercury in the environment by reducing the amount of electricity that power companies need to produce.

sorry for the long, quoted text, but I hope this is informative and/or reassuring.

My apartment has all the windows on just one side -- and they all face north. I like it bright. So I go through a lot of lightbulbs. About six months ago, I bought my first batch of CFLs at Target -- they're just the standard 100w-equivalent GE brand. I did buy one dimmable bulb for a floor lamp. I was wary of the light quality, because I've always hated flourescents.

As old bulbs have burnt out, I've replaced them with the CFLs. There is a tiny delay before they come on and then they need to "warm up" for a couple of minutes before they reach their full brightness. Otherwise, I haven't really noticed a difference. And I doubt that unless someone saw them turned on, that anyone would be able to tell.

Since I don't pay separate utility bills (apart from my rent), I can't comment on the energy cost savings. I made the switch to lower my energy use and do my bit for the planet. I'm not really into big sacrifice -- a couple CFLs, a few less loads of laundry in the dryer, trying to buy things with recycled content. If we can all do little things, it will add up.

In 2012 when my CFLs start burning out, I'll consider the options available then.

I laughed when I read the person who said they don't go to certain people's houses if they use CFL lights. I'm not that strong about it, but I admit that my entire life I've looked at people's house and apartment windows while driving or walking by at night and could tell which places would not be comfortable to live in based on what type of lights they had. I loved my grandma and aunt millie so much, but I disliked visiting either because a) grandma had really bright harsh fluorescent lights everywhere and b) aunt millie had really really dim lighting that made her house feel really grim and depressing to a kid. Strangely enough both places felt totally comforting to me during daytime visits.

I don't feel bad about using incandescents ... I was raised by a dad who was completely militant about our electricity use (ironically, he worked for the electric company ... You'd think he'd want to run up some business for himself!) and rarely have more than one light on for a whole evening. If I'm not reading or drawing or have company over, on most evenings it's the CFL bulb over my stove!

Sounds like there needs to be more studies on CFL's on possible dangers. Especially since they are causing migraines!

Thanks everyone for all the info, it a very interesting debate.

Some CFLs have lovely light. I've always considered myself a light purist, but once the quality of CFL's improved, I installed a few, and I think they're great. I don't know how long they'll last - they haven't burned out yet.

Still, the majority of my bulbs are still incandescent, because most of my ceiling fixtures are dimmable, and I haven't had time to do research into light quality in the dimmable ones. I may wait until the LED lights evolve to an acceptable stage.

The CFLs are particularly good in the summer nights - incandescents generate so much heat.

dianew, I'd be wary of swallowing that report hook line and sinker, particularly in interpreting it the way you did. For a start, the study indicated an increased risk of cancer with prolonged light exposure at night, but didn't measure indoor light nor break down exposure into fluorescent and incandescent light.

Basically, saying "Nevermind that researchers recently found a strong link between fluorescent lights and breast cancer!" is wholly untrue.

There MAY be a link between fluorescent lights and breast cancer, but that's not what the study is proving.

I wrote a post about this on my design blog, Strange Closets. Here is the link to the story:

http://www.strangeclosets.com/2008/03/lighting-dilemma.html

Basically, there are other alternatives that beat CFL for looks and also reduce energy by 30%. I have some before and after pics for incandescent and the new halogen bulbs./

Wow, I'm shocked at all the CFL-haters.

Sometime in high school my family got those big round flourescent bulbs for the basement, and ever since then they've gradually made their way into my home.
On my own, I have CFLs in every overhead light and all lamps but two (my 40W Phillips Natural Light bulbs in my bedroom, which aren't even on that much).

I have no complaint about the light on regular CFLs, even those from Ikea. Tried the "daylight" ones that were on sale at Menard's a couple weeks ago and their light was hideous (blue!), replaced them with the regular ones immediately.

As for the look of the bulbs -- are you guys actually looking at them? They're light bulbs, you shouldn't be. I understand the asthetics for a chandalier, but not for just overhead fan lights, etc.

wow-- I think there are a whole lot of people justifying their precious design eye preference for incandescents with hyperbole about government intrusion into lightbulb choice, migraine inducing lightbulbs, or-- what I find kind of offensive-- fear-mongering about mercury in CFLs endangering the lives of pregnant women. Get your science right. pregnant women and their offspring are better off with lightbulbs that use less electricity and proper disposal of waste.

I have been a CFL advocate for a long time now, but they do have several disadvantages to incandescent bulbs. However all of the problems with CFLs can be worked around by installing a mix of CFLs and incandescent bulbs in fixtures that use multiple bulbs. The CFLs output a great deal of stong, cheap, environmentally friendly white light, but there is a delay in turning them on and they have to warm up before they are bright. Incandescents turn on immediately and they provide a warm, full spectrum of light, but they are hot and inefficient. Mixing the two types of bulbs provides the virtues of both. You get immediately bright, rich full spectrum light with greater efficiency. I usually fill a fixture with a majority of CFLs and only one or two incandescents. Its also worth noting that mixing in CFLs can allow for a fixture with a low wattage rating to produce more light, at a lower cost, then would otherwise be possible.

I don't mind the look of them. I have a ceiling fan in my bed room with 4 bulbs attached. The spiral sticks out pretty far from the enclosure around 'em and other than being a little bright to look at when they're on, I like the look of it when it's off.

... kinda like soft-serve in a cone...

The screw in LED lights are coming...They're available in Europe already, and the technology is changing so that they won't be so blue. Personally, I can't wait for that, as they are even better than cfls. Here's a link for LED lighting:

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11087342/MR_16_Adapter.html

Gogoalix, thank you for posting some actual facts, not just anecdotes and hyperbole!
Reading the majority of these comments is making me very sad! I thought the average AT reader would actually care about the impact their actions have on the planet (even SMALL actions), but instead I am reading a lot of justification of selfish, lazy behavior and distortion of the facts! How depressing.
There are no words for how ridiculous I find everyone whining about the brightness and the cost of the bulbs. I have CFLs in every lamp in my home, and there is really no noticeable difference! Buy a softer tint if the ones you have are too bright. And to claim that CFLs are too expensive is a false economy: they cost more initially, but save you much more over time.
Call me an alarmist, but I was just reading about a chunk of Antarctica the size of Connecticut breaking off into the sea. I don't think it's too much to ask everyone to step up and change the things about their lifestyle that they can actually change! To do any less is just selfish, not to mention short-sighted.

I'm using a mix, most of my CFLs are from free PG&E giveaways and/or IKEA. I use them in the non-dimmable fixtures in the kitchen, laundry room, and hallway. It's nice not having to change bulbs in 10 foot high ceiling lights, but I haven't noticed one iota of change in my electric bill. I don't use CFLs any in lamps or dimmable overheads, the bulbs I have don't fit the lamps and I'm not that eco-conscious.

I bought some GE bulbs for my kitchen, and luckily only my kitchen. They're definitely in the traditional fluorescent vein. However, Safeway-brand CF bulbs are very soft and only slightly deviate from incandescents.

Go figure.

I have CFLs most everywhere. My apt has recessed lighting so I had to get the spotlight kind, and they emit a nice light.

However, in my bathroom, there are supposed to be four big globe vanity bulbs above the mirror, and I had to compromise by alternating the incandescent ones with globe-shaped CFLs, because I just have to have softer light in the bathroom.

My other compromise - I just cannot part with my ld halogen torchiere. Nothing else lights up a room like it.

Like pxlchk1, i purchased a four pack of cfl's from home depot. after reading so many horror stories about them causing migraines and such, i was a bit reluctant, but i went for it anyway. the light of soft white cfls is no different from the incandescents i used before. I placed my bedside lamps side by side and the was NO difference. i changed the remaining bulbs (except dimmers and recessed bulbs) in my home on my next visit to home depot a few days later.

Ok, politics aside, the thing I like best about them is that I haven't ever had to change any of the CFLs that I have installed. Most notably, the one on my front porch, which is the biggest pain to get to. As the old bulbs went out, I replaced them with CFLs and so far have never had to replace any of those.

Come on people! Cheaper electric bills, fewer bulbs consumed, less frequent installations...aside from the voodoo being spun (one wonders by what industry, eh?) I can't find anything bad about these things. Especially now that the light matches the old bulbs so much better than they used to.

I like the energy savings from CFLs, but haven't found the right bulb for all applications. I also like that you can get higher Lumens from CFLs: some of my table lamps have 25 or 40 watt restrictions. It would be nice to use a CFL since they will be under the max watt but provide more lumens.

Right now, I have CFLs in the outdoor lights (doorstep, balcony), and hall lights.

My main problem appears to be the form factor - bulbs just don't fit in the fixtures; second is the warm up time (I can deal with the 1-2 sec delay when turning on the light, but not the 10 min dim light while they warm up) and I'm not a fan of the yellow light from the nVision CFLs I got from Home Depot.

I used halogen bulbs in some fixtures where the CFLs didn't fit, and I like those, but they aren't workable for all fixtures (such as those with cloth shades since halogens get so hot)

Other places I tried to use CFLs:

Bathrooms - exposed bulbs, nVision bulbs from Home Depot with a globe like covering. The deal breaker is they take too long to warm up. I'm sitting in the dark in the bathroom meanwhile. They are still there while I try to figure out what else to do with them and what bulbs to use instead, but I replaced some of the bulbs with incandescent bulbs so I can see. I also don't like the yellow light from these bulbs.

Bedrooms - CFL bulbs won't fit in 3 lamps I tried to put them in, form factor is just wrong (larger base won't allow bulb to screw in to these lamps) and the light is too yellow for me.

Hall - 1 light is good, the other light has the nVision CFL from Home Depot which takes too long to warm up to be usable.

So I have a bunch of CFLs which don't fit in my fixtures, and several globe type CFLs which take too long to warm up. I need to find bulbs that work for me, and figure out what to do with the other bulbs.

I too dislike CFLs, and strongly dislike the idea that they may soon be the only choice.

I get the migraines, and hate the harshness and color temperature. Buying all new fixtures for my house, and retrofitting all my lamps is also a huge expense that I cannot afford.

Beyond that, and most importantly, CFLs are FLUORESCENT lights, which means they give off UV. I happen to have a medical condition which makes me allergic to UV. I already have to wear UV blocking materials out-of-doors, and be pretty much covered head to toe. I'd rather not have to be clad the same way in my home as well unless all the lights are off. No offense but I happen to enjoy being able to wear fun tee-shirts and shorter skirts when entertaining guests. Not to mention bathing in the dark is considerably less fun (I like to read).

Color me unimpressed by CFLs, and a die-hard incandescent hoarder already. I'll even get a note from my doctor if need be. I'm plenty green in other aspects, please let me be comfortable and allergy-free in my own home. It's bad enough out in the rest of the world as it is.

I have epilepsy and incandescent bulbs flicker less than CFLs. Lots of people can't see it, but ask a photo-epileptic and they probably can see it. So, there is a practical reason for the incandescent camp. If they stop making incandescents, then all of us can rally around the cause of epileptics. Bonus: the color of the incandescent light is so much nicer.