I can't imagine this would be covered under your bylaws. Even if they are, it's so easy to put them back up.

I do wonder how old you are, if you are active in sports, and if you have older relatives that come to stay with you? That bar might come in handy sooner than you think.

Check with the city code enforcement and with the building manager or management company if there is one, sometimes buildings are required to have a certain percentage of accessible units and yours might be one of them. If you start doing away with the accessibility features, it might backfire for the condo association or building management company.

Is that a second grab bar behind the toilet?

I'd agree, except they own the condo. If these were rental units, I'd see how there would be laws stipulating how many needed to be accessible, but these are all owned, so why would anyone care if none of the condos are handicap accessible if none of the people owning them require that accessibility?

Portia, are you the original owner or did you buy it from someone else? If you're the first owner of the condo, you should ask the board. If you aren't, I bet the first owners installed it. And I don't think this counts as renovation. If this counted as renovation, painting and changing light fixtures would also count as renovation.

Maybe it seems a little unsightly but if you sprain your ankle or hurt your back, you'll so appreciate it. We had a member of the household bust a couple ribs and though you wouldn't guess it, using the bathroom became one of his biggest problems. Maybe you can hang baskets from it (IKEA-ish) or otherwise hide it.

If you wanted to keep something like it in case of injury but not something so gigantic, you can easily get a short bar (meant for a single hand to hold) that can take up far less space. It's just that this thing is really, really big and does take up a lot of space.

The alternative is that if you wanted to hide it, I would install a solid shelf above it and just leave enough clearance for someone to take hold.

I'm sure the board's only concerned about noise, possibly ruining the structural integrity of the building or someone else's condo, and traffic through the building when it comes to renovation, so I'm pretty sure removing a grab bar wouldn't constitute as "renovation".

I see that you have 2 of them. They make these box shelvs that you can easily install that would cover those up. Then you can take that iron shelving system out and just use the new shelving.

removing this bar does not constitute a "renovation." you own the place; you can remove the bar.

personally, i wouldn't be so careful about finding out if it's kosher to remove the bar--if you are the homeowner, who would ever know what you've done? it's your home & no one can enter it without your permission. don't ask, don't tell seems to be a good way to go here.

I would remove it and then play dumb later saying you thought it was a towel bar, twirl your hair & giggle.

oh nooo! from what I've learned here in NA condo/strata association is like a big brother watching over you. your very very conservative brother, you might have bought the place but you don't own it. They can still tell you what curtains to hang and not to put laundry on your balcony (!!). It's insane. So I'd make sure I ask, in case the manager has to enter the suite.

This winter a herniated disk made bathrooming pretty, pretty hard for me for more than two weeks. I would not discount the utility of a grab bar even if you consider yourself able bodied at the moment. Perhaps treat the far-from-potty half like a large diameter towel rod, for a hand towel; and the near-potty half as a viable grab/assist spot? Injury happens. I'm 33 and did not anticipate the mobility issues I dealt with this past month.

I also live in a condo that was built handicap friendly. There are a few things you can do.

1. Keep the bar and complete the look. Hang an industrial sanitizer dispenser, box of rubber gloves, and install an EKG machine. Voila!! you have a hospital emergency room bathroom.

2. Remove the bar. And paint a picture of a grab bar on the wall just in case of an inspection by the popo.

3. Remove the bar. Get condo insurance (a visitor may crack a tail bone grabbing at the missing bar). Quietly remove the bar, properly patch the hole. Dispose of the towel bar in board members trashcan (wipe for fingerprint). Last but not least, don't let snitches or an one with a limp use your bathroom. Donate yearly to a handicap sensitivity group.

If you go with 2 or 3, be on the safe side. Prepare a getaway bag. Hunting knife, cash, batteries, disposable phone, printed road maps, sunglasses, and fake passport. Take late train to Montreal (ditch knife before getting on train). Immigration hates inspecting train passengers at night, to much hassle. Now you can fly anywhere.

I would take the bar down. I think when they renovations that means major ones. This is no different than a towel bar (and was probably installed by the previous owner). If you want to be extar cautious, just ask the condo board. We are allowed to do renovations with permission from the board at my place

I wouldnt keep it up in the off chance you break something. That to me is a bit dramatic. If anything actually did happen to you, you could just install a new one.

I've never heard of a condo board that would have objections to removing something like that. You own the inside of your unit, and likely a foot or so into the wall. That's your wall, your bar, you can do what you like with it. As long as it isn't something that can be seen from the exterior - like curtains, crap on your balcony, or exterior door colour (or related to pipes going to other people's units), it's yours to do what you like with.

There are "stylish" versions of the grab bars available, if you just don't like the look. I have to give up my main floor bedroom/bath when my parents visit due to my dad's mobility issues. I don't have the space to add one in my main bath so it can be uncomfortable for him. I wish I could add one.

"...paint a picture of a grab bar on the wall just in case of an inspection by the popo."

You just made my morning. And also soiled my monitor.

I'm on my condoboard and this would not be considered a renovation. Anything that effects the electrical, plumbing, structure, moving walls, kitchen cabinets,replacing tub/shower, or flooring materials (this is mostly for sound issues) are considered renovations.

Replacing light fixtures, painting and bathroom accessories are not. If there's nothing in your bylaw requiring specific handicap requirememnts then there should be no reason to keep the bar.

As for the griping about not allowing laundry/your own curtains etc it's part of being in a condo. When you buy you agree to live by the condo bylaws. You can have any kinda curtain you want but it needs to have a white/cream colour on the outside. You might like having your house look like a dump but the rest of us live there as well and we have as much right for our place to look nice and our values not to go down because you like to store your old bedframes and matresses on the balcony.

By the way we have lots of people without white curtains and people who hang out their laundry and our board chooses to focus on other items that are more important. We will however ask you to remove the matress and rug that makes the place look like a dump. I don't think we've ever said no to a renovation or a reasonable request for something so not evey condoboard is the devil.

Usually, but not always, you can make changes like this to the inside of your condo. A general rule is that if its' something that isn't paid for or repaired by your HOA, you can change it as long as it's not structural. For example, your inside walls are yours in most condos. The outside fall under the HOA repair. So, say, texturizing a wall is okay. Knocking one down? Not.

Unless you live in a condo or development that is somehow specifically for people with disabilities, it seems unlikely you should have any issues with removing the bar. Keep it in storage and if you ever sell, you can replace it if you have to!

I'd check with the condo association if you are not absolutely clear about the definition of a renovation. Speaking of which, if the condo was not originally constructed as an accessible unit, did the previous owner make the door-widening and sink renovations and did the association approve those renovations? Every state is different of course but I would think that information should be in your purchase documents.

This is such a minor change just do it. If anyone kvetches or bitches then throw them back up. But I hardly see how anyone would know or care. I do think it is a good idea to save them in case you should ever want them again.

@GypsyMomma & @mandoos - I think the "second bar" is a reflection of the bar in a mirror.

Re: @Meghan_G's comment - if your unit is designed to be accessible, you'll see other differences between it and other condos. For example, possibly wider doorways, bars in a wider/lower tub, a raised toilet seat, etc.

What's important here is the difference between "renovating" (which is totally allowed) and "remodeling," which requires approval. "Remodeling denotes altering an element of the structure or the entire structure. Whereas renovation denotes renewing an element of the structure or the entire structure."

Because the bar is easily removable and doesn't involve altering the existing structure, you're well within your rights to remove it. Just store it in a closet in case you ever find yourself needing it or you want to replace it when you move.

I lived in a condo in Virginia where painting and changing light fixtures required the association's approval beforehand. Prospective buyers were told in no uncertain terms what the deal was so everyone knew and could buy or not with full knowledge.

Who has to know that you removed it? As long as you aren't renting it out or selling it, the presence of the bar doesn't effect anyone but you. We looked at several condos in the Bay Area that had those (in 3-story townhomes, no ledd - seriously? Why would a handicapped person want to live in a 3-story home?!). We would not have hesitated to rip them out.

You could just paint it & from the pic; looks like maybe the bathroom needs painting or something less cream neutral. If you remove it, you'll need a really invisible patching job and paint that either really matches what you have or as said, repaint the whole bathroom. Yes, is there a bar behind the toilet tank? Also, seems the metal shelf is more unsightly than the grab bar. Use the grab bar as a spare towel rack.

I own my condo (rather the bank holds the deed!) in California.
Any questions you have regarding renovating is in your by-laws. You should have been given a binder so read up.
In my area, anything on the inside is up to you to do as long as you don't remove retaining walls. You can modify the entire inside to be one huge room if you wanted to but you would need to note that if you ever sold.
Anything on the outside, including my small patio is the responsibility of the HOA to repair and/or paint. The
grounds, pool and tennis courts are taken care by the HOA as well.
You should not have any issues with taking this bar down and NO, HOA's aren't big brother. THEY CANNOT GO INTO YOUR CONDO because you own the space. They do not have keys to any unit.
Unless your complex was specifically made for people with disabilities, you are okay to remove the bar. Again, read your HOA and don't rely on any of the responses from this post-they are suggestions and experiences from others. You are ultimitly responsible for your unit.

Just take it down and put it in the closet. If they ever come up and inspect, all they will do is tell you to reinstall it. DON'T approach the board or managing agent about it; there is no reason to involve them at this point. Just take it down, like I said worst thing that can happen is they'll tell you to put it back up.

It's an Americans with Disabilities Act requirement to include a grab bar behind the toilet: "A grab bar at least 36 inches (965 mm) long shall be located behind the water closet, with one end no farther than 6 inches (150 mm) from the inside corner of the stall" (http://www.ada.gov/descript/reg3a/fig30des.htm).

Accessibility codes do not require that the grab bar even be installed. You are required to install the backing so that accessible grab bars might be adaptable at a later date only. As such, you may remove the grab bar without worry of violating any codes.

first thing you want to do is check your local building code to see if condos are required to be handicap accessible. accessibility laws differs by city. for example, here in nyc, condos, apartments, and co-ops are considered commercial property thus need to be handicap accessible. if not required, go ahead and remove the grab bar. if required, here is what we typically do: remove the bar but leave the framing support already in the wall. that way in the future, when needed, a new bar can be easily installed without adding additional framing support. grab bar weight requirement typically 500 lb min and regular sheet-rock wall just doesn't cut it.

Just to clarify, per the American with Disability Act (ADA) as adopted by congress, and subsequently all local jurisdiction (in terms of local building department), it stipulates that at least 5% of all condo units are "accessible" while the others are meant to be "adaptable" (your state/local jurisdiction may be stricter than the ADA, but not less stringent)
"Adaptable" as in there's already extra blocking inside the wall should you ever choose to install a grab bar near a toilet etc (and a few other specific locations)
"Accessible" meaning the unit is ready to go, already built to accommodate a person with disability, and that can range from having restricted mobility to limited sight and hearing.

To check if you unit is built as an "adaptable" unit, check and see if the inside of the cabinet under your kitchen sink is finished, with a floor and/or a removable front piece, meaning the cabinet door and base. If so, that means it it an adaptable unit, so that a person in wheelchair can easily adjust the layout and remove the cabinet door, so that he/she can roll under the sink in a wheelchair for easy access.

As to the original poster's question, these grab bars and the mentioned wide doors and lowered counter tells me this is built as an Accessible unit.
But in a condo setup, typically anything starting from the inside face of the stud should belong to the homeowner, unless your HOA bylaws specifically speculates otherwise, I don't see why you cannot remove the grab bar, especially since the blocking is behind the wall, you can always put it back.
If you want to change out the kitchen counter however, perhaps that would be more complicated...say if you building had some type of government subsidy funding, that stipulates there are X amount of unit available for homebuyer with disabilities?

-source, an architect who has built a few condo buildings

In private spaces, there's a rising trend called "visitability." This basically means even if no one in a residence is currently facing mobility challenges, new buildings and homes are being built to accommodate everyone. You might consider if you're ever going to have a relative or friend with limited mobility come by your place (or, as others have pointed out, you might require a grab bar yourself - I'm 29 and had a wicked ankle break a few years ago...)

I blogged about accessibility, universal design, & "Visitability" just this week! The newest This Old House project is designed to let it's residents age in place.

p.s. there are much less "hosptial" looking grab bars on the market now - rather than removing, maybe consider a swap?

xstal: I think the 5% and adaptable elements of the ADA are in regards to new construction so that when you are selling the units there are options for people with disabilities, no?

I would think it would be odd for the ADA to apply to a private condo (it would apply to all the general use areas) but I agree, perhaps check to see if its required your unit be kept adaptable.

Also, Illinois has their own accessibility book (Chicago has their own code as well) that varies a bit with the 2010 ADAAG.

xstal and Kate from 1500sqt sum up the issue pretty well I think. I'd only add that if you take them down, keep the grab bars in storage in case you or another owners ever want/need to reinstall them. Also document location they're currently mounted so you'll know where the blocking is in the wall if needed in the future.

This. Our house was an estate and our showers have grab bars in them as well as the toilets that are 1-2" taller than normal ones. While we have no practical use for them, my 93 year old grandmother appreciates the tall toilets, and whenever we have older relatives coming to visit, they seem to like them.

When we purchased our condo, the seller was required to provide a copy of the association by laws for us before we closed. The document was really clear and understandable compared to what I'm used to with real estate legal documents, but I'm also from a state where it matters that you have clear title to the land's mineral rights and a geological survey to be sure the property isn't going to randomly sink 100 feet. If the by laws had not been clear and understandable to us, I would have consulted a lawyer to be sure I understood them.

I was also able to talk with the property management firm before we closed to clarify enforcement on a few details that seemed a bit ridiculous. Under the by laws for example, it's specified that only one bicycle can park in a unit's parking space. It's pretty easy to fit 5-6 bikes in a parking space tho, so provided the bikes are not interfering with other parking spaces, the rule is not enforced.

In the case of this grab bar, I would have clarified it with the property management firm before I signed. I'd want to keep a reasonable length of grab bar for my mom's mobility issues and in case my partner or I have another accident that puts one of us on crutches for 6 weeks. But a full length wheelchair accessible grab bar is excessive for our second floor unit in a no elevator building.

Take it down!

Sheetrock in is yours. Take it down. Don't worry about it. You do not need permission for minor repairs and such. You can change shower curtain rods, install shower doors, put up a bathroom cabinet, crown molding and such. Unless you have super restrictive documents. It is good that you checked the docs, however. If it is not specifically mentioned, you probably do not have to worry about it.

When you buy a place, in the closing documents you agree to be governed by a set of documents if they exist. Nobody has to give them to you. It is your responsibility to ask for them, get them and learn them. I read mine before I ever even considered bidding on my condo. I like them. People cannot trash up the place! I have asked the COA to enforce rules. I have also been on the board. It is amazing what people think they can do.

Nah. Do it now. No one will ask. And if they do, really? WTF? It's not a smoke detector, for goodness sake. :)

Seriously. You can get rid of it. And enjoy your new space! :)

Opinions vary, as do building codes and homeowner agreements. However, in my condo community (of which I have previously been a board member) we don't care about the inside of the units. If you want to install a Craftmatic Adjustable Toilet with grab bars, racing stripes, and a seatbelt, go nuts. Install a parquet floor that looks like a Confederate flag, for all I care. (Although I will judge you and talk badly about you behind your back.) But if you do something to affect the value of anyone else's home, namely exterior-visible changes, expect anything from a harshly-worded letter to a red-tag on the construction.

Is this really worthy of an AT post?

Wow. This is hilarious! I love it.

To clarify - NYC requires ADA compliance for new residential construction and renovations ONLY. Ere is no requirement to retrofit an existing apartment of any type.

There are two grab bars, positioned properly for handicapped accessibility for a toilet. I wonder whether someone with a disability lived there, given this and the other details you noted.

Since you have blocked the rear grab bar with the other the toilet storage, this grab bar isn't properly positioned for anything. I would take them both down. If you want to do anything, I think there are reinforced toilet paper holders that would suffice for periodic or not serious assistance.

Unless there is a government code that requires this, I think you're free to remove it - but I would casually chat with the neighbors and/or ask the condo board if you have on-going questions, I would be very surprised if removing this is an issue.

As a former condo owner whose condo assoc. bylaws had a similar "no renovations without board approval" mandate, I'd say take the dam thing out and never mention it again. In fact, I'd go further and say that the less permission you ask of your condo board the less opportunity the board has to say no. My condo board did little to enforce the rules in the bylaws but were all too eager to prevent a renovation when a condo owner actually followed those rules and asked permission.

Yeah, what Parnassus said -- the minute you take that thing down, one of you will sprain an ankle, etc., and you'll want to put it back up!

Also, I kind of feel like we should learn to embrace safety measures for the injured/disabled as a normal part of our surroundings, not a violation of the aesthetic. The bar appears to match your etagere and toilet paper holder. Why not accept it for what it is?

ADA laws can dictate the number of accessible properties for sale/rent in a large building, but this is your space now. As a private residence it no longer applies.

If you are worried about karma or the need for the bar in the future, toss it in a closet. I am guessing that it wouldn't take much effort to re install it later.

Just do it. You own the place. It's your home, you can add or subtract minor things such as wall hangings/towel racks/grab bars as you see fit.

I am on the Board at the development where I purchased a co-op. It is structural changes that need to be submitted in writing to be approved. I would not worry about removing the bar in your bathroom. If you were taking down a wall, changing your electric or something like that, then you would need the Ok from the Board or Management company.

Yes, you can. May you? Should you? Questions for the Board.

I'd leave it. Use the left portion as a rail for extra towels. Someone has surgery or something, you'll be grateful for it. (Has happened twice in our household in 4 years and we're young and healthy.)

If you REALLY feel like you want to get rid of it to make the place your own, I'd leave it till the end of all your other decorating (that which is outside of that bathroom) and then when it comes time to do it, see how important it remains to you.

I had surgery on my foot last year and was so glad we had an apartment with accessible grab bars. They made my life a million times easier. As a 20-something, I was embarrassed by it until I needed it. We installed a towel rack above it, and the bath towels hang down over it making it not as visible. I would recommend keeping it!

This post just made me sad. I always hear about how hard it is for disabled people to find accessible housing and apparently people are taking down bars in perfectly good, accessible apartments. No fault to the people who wrote this post but it seems pointless to build these apartments if no effort is made to fill them with people who could use them. Advocacy seems needed. Kate from 1500 square feet cheered me up, though. I love the idea of visitability!

Hysterical!!!!

I don't know the answer to your legal question, but I recently moved into an accessible new construction apartment. Even though neither my husband or I needs an accessible apartment, this was the one left that had the best floorplan in our budget otherwise, so we took it.

At first I thought the number of grab bars in the bathroom bordered on the ridiculous, but the shower ones in particular (along with the shower bench) come in very handy on occasion. I did have a bit of a spill last weekend and while I am not seriously injured, the whole left side of my body was pretty achy for a couple days and just that little assistance steadying me helped a lot.

I can't say I find a lot of use for the ones around my toilet other than extra towel bars, but while at first I found them unsightly, now I barely notice them, and I am glad they are there for relatives and friends who might visit who need them.

Portia here! Thanks everyone for the responses, there's quite a large range... I'm just going to go ahead and take them down - we're active and in our mid-20's, so I don't think we'll really need them anytime soon. Plus the boyfriend agreed to put them back up if I got hurt! (Of course I'd do the same for him...) I read the condo docs pretty well another time and there's nothing specifically about the bars or accessibility. And no one with accessibility issues visits. We live at the end of a very long hallway, so I can't imagine it'd be easy to get to us anyway. Again, thanks everyone!

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