We've all heard Steve Jobs pitching from the multitude of "greatest" new devices released by Apple and his acumen for fine design is a given. But here's an insightful interview which reveals exactly what Mr. Jobs looks for when he's upgrading/purchasing his own household hardware, in this case, clothes washing appliances. Can you guess which brand he ended up choosing?
“It turns out that the Americans make washers and dryers all wrong. The Europeans make them much better – but they take twice as long to do clothes! It turns out that they wash them with about a quarter as much water and your clothes end up with a lot less detergent on them. Most important, they don’t trash your clothes. They use a lot less soap, a lot less water, but they come out much cleaner, much softer, and they last a lot longer."
"We spent some time in our family talking about what's the trade-off we want to make. We ended up talking a lot about design, but also about the values of our family. Did we care most about getting our wash done in an hour versus an hour and a half? Or did we care most about our clothes feeling really soft and lasting longer? Did we care about using a quarter of the water? We spent about two weeks talking about this every night at the dinner table. We'd get around to that old washer-dryer discussion. And the talk was about design."
"We ended up opting for these Miele appliances, made in Germany. They're too expensive, but that's just because nobody buys them in this country. They are really wonderfully made and one of the few products we've bought over the last few years that we're all really happy about. These guys really thought the process through. They did such a great job designing these washers and dryers. I got more thrill out of them than I have out of any piece of high tech in years."
That's quite the endorsement for Miele, but we're prone to agree profusely about their quality and features (at least from personal experience with their category leading vacuum line, with aspirations for their washer and dryers). One could also argue his assessment of Miele's price vs. quality could be applied to his very own company's offerings, for better or worse, depending upon your opinion of the Cupertino designed products.
Excerpts from Gary Wolf's Steve Jobs: The Next Insanely Great Thing for Wired from 1996.
Photo from the highly recommended photography book, The Bigger Picture: Thirty Years of Portraits by Diane Walker.
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Okay I lived in London for 10 years and had 2 different washer/dryer combos - They were awful! We ended up line drying almost all our stuff and they were so tiny it barely could fit anything in it. Plus they were loud, in our bathroom (lucky actually not in the kitchen) and one more than once leaked. It's a great idea in theory but I have yet to see one that works better.
Miele makes great vacuum cleaners so I imagine their washer and dryers are pretty nice as well. It's the first vacuum cleaner that doesn't drive me nuts from noise and it has incredible suction.
An acquaintance responded to this post with the following:
"He would design it so that it would only wash clothes that you buy from the Apple store. The detergent would also be sold by them. You could use Tide, but it would void your warranty. And in order to program a wash cycle, you'd need to download iTunes to your computer and control it from there."
Wow! Was my previous comment really so offensive that it had to be deleted? I was only pointing out the obvious prejudice for apple products and the strange Midas touch that Steve Jobs seems to have on the people who worship him.
But of course, it's only the guilty who are ever offended, so of course my statement was offensive, because it was so true.
I should point out that there are lots of very good products out there that have no relation to apple and do not need an endorsement from Steve Jobs or Oprah or Buzz Aldrin in order to be good and recognized as so. Let the Miele products stand on their own.
I like the lamp in the photo... Where can I get one, or one like it?
@adventrising: First off, yes, products need to stand on their own. Even if something gets rave reviews, it still has to work for you.
Now, on to the thing you're missing. The experiences and expertise of the person reviewing the product are entirely relevant, not their fame.
If I had millions of dollars to invest, I would certainly be interested in how others like Oprah and Jobs do it, and I'd be interested not because they're famous, but because they're in the same situation.
If I wanted to get a home appliance and was design-conscious, I would certainly be interested in the opinions of other design-conscious people, such as Steve Jobs... but not Oprah.
In short, word of mouth is a great way to learn about products, but the weight of a recommendation is based in part on the expertise of the person making it.
Now let's not kid ourselves; this article probably wouldn't have been highlighted if it was some other brilliant designer giving their opinion. Nonetheless, this is a design-oriented blog, and it should come as no surprise that it would highlight the opinions of famous designers for two reasons: it drives clicks/advertising because they're famous, but the opinions themselves are interesting because these are successful designers.
I don't worship Steve Jobs. I think he's a control freak, and the very definition of a boss from hell. Even in the realm of design, he loses marks in my book for producing a series of mice that I find utterly unusable. However, you don't need to be perfect for me to value your opinion; you just need a pretty consistent track record in the relevant areas.
Adventrising: your comment was deleted not because of opposing opinion, but because you chose to include offensive opinion of others who disagree with you. Please review our comment policy, which clearly outlines respectful commenting is to observed. You can disagree respectfully, as baiting or name calling will not be tolerated. We should all be able to discuss what we like/dislike about tech without resorting to judging others for their choice in tech, regardless of device or OS.
Please note, this is a polite reminder. You've otherwise have been a welcome voice here.
Once again, this story shows how Steve and Apple gets it, and how they base the design of their products on what they would want. They always seem to have a bead on customer desires most of the time, even if they're wrong some of the time (read: the G4 Cube).
And once again, product- and marketing-based low self-esteem rears its ugly head, judging by some of the posts here...
I've got a set/pair in my loft and they're fantastic. I lived in Switzerland for a while and was thoroughly impressed. The cycle time is long but the soap and ease on the clothes is worth it.
@ Adventrising: Do you believe that (a) folks will buy these very expensive washer/dryer products simply because Steve/Oprah/Buzz say they're good and (b) that you need to save these people from Steve/Oprah/Buzz.
Get a life man/woman :)
I'm confused. How is an article from 1996 relevant to purchasing a quality washer/dryer today? I understand that it's interesting to see how Steve Jobs and his family decide on a purchase, because he is (purportedly) big on design and features, but... this is just dated.
@ SeanG: Yes, I absolutely believe that people go out and buy products for no reason other than Oprah's suggestion or because it has a piece of fruit on it.
Do you want proof? Go see how many books have made it to the NY Times top seller list right after Oprah makes recommends them.
More proof? Look around this site. Recently there was a round up of some tablets. Some of the tablets were (more or less) clones of the iPad running a different OS, yet the industrial design of these products was stated as being not as good as the iPad. I promise you the fruit is the part of the "industrial design" that made the difference of opinion.
Do these people need to be saved from Steve Jobs and Oprah? No. The products Apple makes are generally good and the recommendations Oprah makes are generally pretty good as well. But people should read lots of reviews and look at the pros and cons and see if a product is right for them.
My opinion of the Miele brand is helped more by the reviews posted of their products posted here than by this article.
@gregory: Well, I would contend that my deleted comment says no more in content than what my later comment also said. Both touched on hero worship and people who love all things apple without objectively critiquing the products first. The only aspect I didn't include was the idea that if apple made a washer and dryer we would all find ways to bash Miele for not doing what apple did. My first comment was simply a little more poetic. While I don't believe I was name calling or baiting, this is not my site so I respect the decision to delete that comment. It's not my call.
We have a Bosch set (axxis) which is also German made and boasts lots of the same features. We love it. However if you are looking into bosh they also have an an American style set to appeal to American consumers which you want to stay away from.
Actually, Jobs comments in the late 90's are just as, if not more, pertinent now. I live in Israel and absolutely love my Bauknecht (Italian despite the name) washer and White-Westinghouse dryer (English). So it takes a bit longer to wash but the trade-off in cleaner clothes, less wasted water (which is heated in the washing machine to exactly the temperature needed, another savings), less wear and tear on my clothes makes the extra bit of planning worthwhile. Despite the small footprint (they stack), its a 7/5 kilo size which is as much as a standard machine in the US but they are still light enough for me to move them out to clean. And I don't have the servicing headaches of my friends who insisted on buying expensive, wasteful Maytags and the like(which also required them to remove doors and semi-dismantle the machine to get them into their laundry rooms).
Hi, Peter from Bavaria here.
---but they take twice as long to do clothes!---
My sister's washer in Arizona takes 35 minutes to wash clothes. Mine (Siemens) takes almost two hours on the normal cycle.
---They use a lot less soap,---
The cap on my sister's liquid detergent is the same size as mine. The detergent producers tell you to put the same amount in no matter what.
---a lot less water,---
100% True! And if I have stuff from the fitness center, I have to wash the sweaty towel stuff twice because or else they will still be sweaty.
---but they come out much cleaner, much softer,---
Softness is dependant upon water hardness and detergent. I moved from a city with bad water to a small town with a natural spring and the clothes are softer - Same machine, same brand of detergent.
---"We ended up opting for these Miele appliances, made in Germany. They're too expensive, but that's just because nobody buys them in this country.---
Miele (pronouces Mee-Luh) are awesome! Miele is freakishly expensive in Germany too! And Germans buy them like crazy here, so I have no idea what this statement is based on.
Anyhoo, the lowdown: I can't imagine that the european washers use that much less power, they operate a heck of a lot longer, spin WAY faster, and spin really really fast more often. The faster RPMs here mean the clothes come out less wet which I love, but I do happen to like being able to wash three loads of clothing at my sister's in two hours instead of 6 hours.
@adventrising: Do you truly believe that:
(a) Steve/Oprah/XYZ's words assuages the obvious shortcomings of the product such that potential buyers become actual buyers?
and
(b) your words — the words of anyone on the internet — calling out the "sheep" will make a difference?
The way I see it is that people get what <u>they</u> deserve when <u>they</u> spend <u>their</u> money.
BTW, are you similarly upset when the supermarket decides to put Pepsi at the aisle header? Do you feel that they, in their king-maker capacity, have decided that Pepsi is superior to all other colas, and are discouraging potential buyers from exploring their options located further down the aisles?
Talking about it for two weeks every night at the dinner table?? You must be kidding me!!
Steve Jobs did his own laundry?
Fully agree with PeterJohn...I also live in Europe and have a European washer and condenser dryer. When you talk about a longer wash time you aren't talking about the difference between 35 min and 45 min...the basic wash cycle is TWO HOURS. And these are small machines so it's not like you're doing your wash in one or two loads...try five or six if you have a family. And yes, sometimes even after the two hour cycle you have to rewash because it doesn't always get things clean the first go.
We also have very hard water so our clothes aren't naturally soft and they wear down much quicker then when we were in the U.S. where we had softer water.
Just cause it's European doesn't mean it's magically better...just different.
@SeanG: (a) Yes. People don't come to the conclusion that a product is awesome and that they need one, but then wait for the words of Oprah to get it. The people who want it and are interested already have it. What these celebrity endorsements do to many people is convince them that they need or want something they had no previous interest in, or that they were hesitant about for one reason or another.
(b) I'm not sure you understand. Like I said earlier, usually the most guilty are the most offended, so I'm going to make a small wager that you like apple products, and from your comments you are mad at me because you feel that I've called you a "sheep." Not everyone who likes apple has come to that conclusion without thought. The fact that you know how to use <u>underline</u> HTML tags is one earmark that you are probably not one of these sheep that does whatever apple says. However, you have spent a lot of your time getting really angry about it, so jury's out.
On "the way you see it," most kids learn what hot is by putting their hand on the burner or something similar. It doesn't mean I'm not going to tell them not to first.
Like I said earlier, apple makes plenty of very good products and I'm not opposed to buying them, but this is a1996 article about Steve Jobs buying a washing machine. Your opinion of the washing machine after reading the article will either be increased or decreased based on your own values, which are unlikely to change, and how they match the machine's specs -or- on Steve Jobs recommendation. The matching values has nothing to do with Steve Jobs, but if people already admire him then they are more likely to subconsciously relate to him, "Oh yeah, I love doing three times as many loads in four times the time too," even if it's not their actual feeling on the matter. Their admiration blinds them. Their bias for the person creates a bias for the product.
As another commenter put it, his opinion matters because he has the money to pretty much do whatever he wants, but it also means that he's not one of our peers. His outlook is not going to be the same as ours. He needs his colors not to fade because he only wears black turtle necks. He can wait if several are in the wash because he has a whole closet full of them.
I've gotten a whole lot more value out of the commenters here (who are our peers) then I will ever get out of a celebrity endorsement. These are people living a similar life to me, interested in similar things as me, who spend their free time commenting on this tech blog like me. If they have a solution to a problem or a recommendation, I'm a lot more likely to find it useful.
I pity anyone who read this far.
@ JNS - You rock!
Why`s two hours for a washing cycle a problem? You don't have to even be there. A standard European washing machine does 6-7 kg (14 pounds) of laundry with about 45 litres (12 gallons) of water and under 1 kWh. If modern American machines achieve the same, then the interview is really outdated. If not, I guess the Jobs family is right about buying Miele.
@ Herzsprung
US washers measure in cubic feet. I still think that KG of laundry is a crock. If I stuff fleece sweaters into the washer, and then levi's, the levis are much heavier than the fleece taking up the same space - so 6-7kg of what exactly? What a crock.
In any case, you can put a lot more laundry in a US washer. US washers are way more energy efficient than 15-20 years ago, but they do not heat the water so there is no way to accurately compare kWh. That is all dependent upon the efficiency of your water heater.
When I visit my sister I put a load of laundry in, in 40 minutes it is finished. It is sooo easy.
1. Wash a load 40 min
2. I stick it in the dryer and a new load in the washer.
3. The dryer is finished at the same time as the washer. Take the stuff out of the dryer, put the stuff from the washer in the dryer.
4. Repeat steps 2-3 until complete.
During the 40 minutes I have time to fold, iron, or hand stuff outside to air dry. I am done with everything in 3 hours.
In Germany it takes 2 hours to wash a load. I have to make sure I am back (or wait) in 2 hours to put a new load in. I put that in the dryer (which does not take two hours). Then I end up with a half hour of waiting where I can't go shopping because there is not enough time to shop and get back.
Sooooo, it takes a lot longer and the drying times are not 2 hours so planning is very difficult. Do I want to wake up on saturday, get everything done by 10 and have the day free - or do I want to keep having to return to the washer every two hours for 3-4 loads. If you have a family this is impossible and you endup constantly doing laundry instead of having one day and getting everything done all at once for the whole week.
Really, the only benefit is the RPM. 800RPM is really high in the US, mine here goes to 1400. I know others that go to 1600.
I think the the long cycle time issue applies most to people with big families. A slow washing machine can mean constant changing of loads or you are going to get behind and not be able to catch up.
I don't see why Steve Jobs would know any more about washing machines than anyone commenting here, or why, as someone rightly pointed out, his comments made in 1996 would be relevant in 2011.
Surely it's not that cut-and-dried that all miele washers are excellent and all US machines are awful?
I get that he's excited about how well they're designed, I get that he's a discerning customer, I get that he had two weeks to discuss 'his values re: washing machines' but I also get why a few people commenting here just don't see his opinion as all that relevant.
I've just bought an LG combination washer dryer and I love it. Yes, it does take longer than separate units and I wouldn't recommend it for a family but for 1 or 2 people it's great.
Uses a lot less power than separate units, approx annual running costs $14.