hate to state the obvious but, headphones?

Eelie- seconded!

Take the house in the hood.

Your chances of finding neighbors in a condo/apartment who will put up with the noise is slim to none. There is no way to effectively block the noise, though there are ways to lessen it.

This is tough, especially in a rental. I own a theater, and we've been dealing with soundproofing issues for the better part of two years. I like the stuff that they have:
http://www.soundproofcow.com/
However, to properly soundproof a room, you need access to the studs, so if you're a renter, that's out. Buy some eggshell composite, liquid nail it to cardboard, and nail it to the wall.
But if it's repetitive, loud beats, that kind of thing will make your neighbors not like you. Anything with shared joists or shared walls are out - loud bass will go through the walls (and your neighbors spines). And if they have a small child, you're done for.
Take the house and soundproof the studio the best you can. Good luck!

Why does it have to be LOUD? It's my understanding that playing music at really high volumes actually distorts the sound, which seems counter-productive for a music producer. Plus, he'll permanently damage his hearing that way.

Sorry, but I think the problem here is the LOUDness, not the ways to contain it.

I am in the exact same situation, and sorry ladies above, but producers need studio monitors and subs to know what the tracks will sound like in the club. Headphones will cut out various levels of the mix..

In my case, we chose the house because we were both way happier there, but in your case, I would suggest rugs, carpet, moving blankets on the wall, foam boards on the ceiling -- anything that would put padding and separation between you and your neighbors, and suck up the sound waves. I would also suggest letting him make his man-cave to his liking, then you can go wild on the rest of the space. Just keep that door closed when guests come over..

WIth serious noise, there's absoutely no way to soundproof a condo effectively unless you spend a ton. You effectively have to isolate the studio from the walls, ceiling (if not on top floor) and/or floor (if not on first floor) and it takes work. You do this by building a wall separated by at least 8" air space and insulation from each side. No amount of curtains eggshells or half-assed measures will do it. Sound travels through air (easier to control) and through contact (so you have to separate the studio walls.)

To answer the headphones question, they are not optimal for producing music. They color the sound too much making it difficult to produce music that sounds good on various systems.

However, Melissapauline is correct. Music should be produced at a moderate volume. Tell your boyfriend to adjust his production techniques. Aside from saving his hearing, he just might produce better mixes.

Yeah, same problem here. Anytime the guitar comes out, that also means the amp, and the lowest setting would probably annoy most people. My bf avoids working too late, and will do a lot of work arranging via headphones then do final mixing and frequent checks on the monitors so that the neighbors aren't pounded out of their units.

Also keep in mind that cities have noise ordinances, especially on nights and weekends; be a good neighbor and make sure he's operating within those, or you'll have bigger problems than limited housing choices.

I'd pick the house in the not so nice area or keep looking. You're not going to enjoy that condo very much if all your neighbors hate you. Repetitive beats, at least IMO, are the worst kind of annoying. Although I may be biased because my downstairs neighbor plays video games far too much.

I'm guessing you have already, but has he looked into renting a space somewhere for his music production? I know there are a few rehearsal type spaces in my area, typically in industrial areas where there are no neighbors to annoy.

As someone who has dealt with and suffered through extremely noisy neighbors over the past few years, please take the rundown house. Please. It made my living situation so unbearable I developed a sleep disorder. Okay, taking off my dirty lens.

I don't know much about soundproofing but it seems the consensus is that even with significant amounts of it the noise will still leak through. And that's if your landlord lets you even do any soundproofing. Think of it this way, in addition to ensuring long-term housing for yourself, you will also spare yourself the grief and anxiety of constantly worrying about the neighbors and their reactions. Even if you don't get kicked out I can't imagine you'd engender much good will.

Can you find a place where you'd be an end unit, and then have the studio be in a room that shares no walls? Maybe an end unit townhome so you also don't have people below you or above you either? Otherwise, I'd say the house is the way to go. As someone who has lived in noisy apartments, I hate hearing repetitive beats like that.

I'll go with Option C: take the condo and make him get rehearsal space.

You know why? Because being in a home that isn't run down and isn't in a crappy neighborhood is more important than him being able to make music. Yes, it's important, but so is not fearing for your safety or being embarassed to invite people over because the neighbors have let their house go to hell. Worse yet, since you are renters, a run down house means that the landlord has not bothered to keep up with it and that means you are probably up a creep without a paddle if something significant breaks or your roof springs a leak.

I know I'm not really solving your problems, but despite neither the house nor the condo being the ideal solution I think you should think practically and put the safety and security of yourselves before other things, especially since he might be able to find rehearsal space.

If you do have a couple bucks to spend and decide to go for a condo, how about building a small room inside of a room? The best way to insulate sound is through void spaces. This will not let the sound pass through. Usually if you share stud walls, the studs themselves will pass on the sound. So you can build an 8X8 cube or something and insulate to muffle the sound further and also soundproof the inside of it (carpet all over walls, clg, floor if looking for a cheap alternative). The only concern would be then to pass the sound to your downstairs neighbor, but perhaps this cube could be lifted up by something.

Rent a separate studio space that is not in a residential area. This is his business, so treat it like a business. Business expenses, such as rental space, are deductible and there is less risk of having them treated as partially-deductible living space.

Find a garage/warehouse space, create an interior room with filled-cinder block walls (more mass = less low frequency sound travelling beyond the walls), and then treat the interior of the walls to deaden the sound.

Or perhaps this isn't really a business but a hobby that someone THINKS makes him a producer? I would have thought that a professional already knew this kind of stuff.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be such a grumpy old man. Everyone has to start somewhere. But seriously, if this is really a business, do it right instead of trying to piece together a less-than-ideal situation.

@tinyhands - I just flashed on those home decorating/house buying shows where the husband, whose day job is something like civil engineer or accountant, "needs" a special room to store and play his musical instruments, because he's so serious and hardcore about his music.

The best advice I can give is to either take the condo and rent your boyfriend a separate studio space, or to build a sound-isolated mini-studio within a room in your condo. Preferably within a room that doesn't share a wall with the next-door unit.

If you want the condo and renting a studio space or building a room-within-a-room are not options, here are some aesthetically pleasing soundproofing tiles you might consider:

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/sound-proof-modular-hexagon-pa-155733

My husband and I bought a house next door to a band. They claimed to have done some soundproofing.There is a good 6-8 feet separating the houses, but we can hear every note, every drum beat played...all through our house. Even in the basement. When we asked them to turn down the amps, we were told by the band member's parents: "You live in a neighborhood now" & "If you didn't want noise, you should have moved out to the country."
Now the police have been called 3x in one week and hope of ever having a relationship with our neighbors is nonexistent.

I love that you're being *thoughtful* about this and you've restored my hope in mankind.

Unless you have a ton of money, nothing is going to work reliably. The folks touting the room within a room concept are correct. However, the problem is going to be isolating the room within a room - making it "float." You also have to construct the thing like a tank, so the walls don't resonate. Even then, you may find that it does not have the intended effect, as any point of contact can transmit his beats to your neighbors. The likely case is that you will find yourself in a condo that you have already purchased, without the resources (money) necessary to tweak the installation to ensure it is truly isolated.

Those touting wall insulation may be forgetting that you share the same framing as your neighbors. Therefore, even if you could make the walls 100% transmission free (which is highly unlikely), if the floors vibrate, the vibration will be transmitted through the framing material. The same goes for the ceiling, unless it gets the same treatment as the hypothetical 100% transmission free walls.

I assume money is an issue, or he would already have a studio somewhere.

The house doesn't guarantee there won't be problems with the neighbours.

Back when I had a house, I had neighbours a short distance away whose kids would play their music super loud with the bass amped up. I'm one of those freaks whose hearts synchs with the bass and even if I couldn't hear the music, I feel it. It made me so ill. Move into the crap house, get a neighbour like me, and you're done for. :( I second the idea of getting nice, smaller apartment in a better area and then leasing studio space.

I second all the people suggesting getting a separate, commercial, studio space unless the house is nowhere near any neighbors. Tax laws in the US allow you to deduct rent from a separate studio space even if you didn't show a profit that year for the business (but can prove you are working as a professional) whereas the home office tax credit can only be taken if you are making a profit, and it cannot exceed that - i.e. the tax credit taking you from the blue to the red.

I do, however, have a friend who built an entire internal room within one of his rooms in his (owned) condo, so he could have his music studio at home. But to do it right is quite an investment.

1) talk to the neighbors before doing anything. They might be fine with loud volume at certain times.
2) take a day off work and mix during the day when most of your neighbors are at work
3) rent a rehearsal/practice space for mixing (although these are usually *louder* since you're surrounded by bands practicing on all four sides)
4) get a set of high-quality headphones and mix through those, then check the mix occasionally on monitors. If he learns how mixes translate between headphones and his monitors, he won't have to blast music at such high volumes.

He should really adjust his recording and mixing techniques before spending thousands on soundproofing. Many, many musicians struggle with the same problem and make due in less than ideal situations.

I know the answer you obviously want to get here, but unless you can guarantee a 100% sound proof space, don't be a dick neighbor.

I am with Bubb. I play guitar (electric and acoustic), and I live in an upstairs apartment. I bought a 2 watt tube amp head and a single 10" speaker to play through. I play a little quieter than I'd like, but the downstairs neighbors are cool with what I've done.

In fact, they prefer that I play the electric. The acoustic is a Martin dreadnought, and those things are loud and there's really nothing I can do about it.

Seeing as most people above just want to lecture you and your boyfriend I registered to actually be of some help.

There are plenty of options for soundproofing ranging in price depending on how soundproof you really want it to be. Some good articles and resources:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/21/nyregion/for-musicians-solid-walls-make-good-neighbors.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

http://www.acoustiblok.com/

http://www.ehow.com/how_5690086_soundproof-rehearsal-space.html

http://www.metlumber-nyc.com/193443/2011/08/02/why-no-musicians-recording-studio-is-complete-without-acoustical-foam.html

Also:

http://www.soundproofcow.com/home.php

My ex is a musician, when we moved in together we found an end apartment over a garage. The room dedicated as his studio has the closet (packed with clothes) then a hall then the neighbor's wall. Ideally you want to build a room inside the room so the sound doesn't travel to your neighbor. And Ev is right this room has to "float" there also is the problem of ventilation to a room like this. We also raised the speakers on gravel so it dissipated the waves further and faced them away from the neighbor. Also you'll need that dense (and surprisingly expensive) wall mount baffle foam stuff, although this mainly helps with the short sound waves, the long wave low end are the ones that travel through your floor and walls.

He kept most of it to the weekend and if he was working in the evening it was headphones only after 10pm. We didn't get any complaints from our neighbors, even my super finicky one that reports everything to the landlord. On the other hand his music did not have a lot of that sub low end going on. He also had to change his work flow a little getting accustomed to a smaller set of speakers and his headphones, then using the larger/louder ones mainly on the weekends to check and finalize. Our neighborhood is a nice quiet neighborhood and we wanted to keep it that way.

Other friends have solved this problem with, renting out a space with other friends and sharing the cost. Using commercial/industrial spaces in off business hours. Renting a house and converting/sound proofing the shed/guest house/garage to be a studio. Doing the same as above room within a room, most of these places even had double doors with 2' ish in between the doors. Good luck :)

First, thank you for actually being concerned about this. There are a lot of people who would prefer to pretend this isn't a problem and put themselves, their neighbors, and their landlords through a lot of unnecessary unpleasantness.

I don't see how you could possibly share a wall (or a floor or ceiling) with anyone, but I think the people insisting that he should have a dedicated studio are being a little unreasonable. That's a great goal to have, but if it's not within his means right now, that's just how it is. But there's a reason why it's a cliche for artists to live in crappy buildings in crappy neighborhoods. You've got to go where you'll have the freedom to work effectively. That freedom might mean extra ceiling height to work on large pieces, or it could mean leeway for loud activities like music production or using a woodshop. Basically, if you're dedicated to accommodating his art, you have to be willing to make other sacrifices.

But also don't make the mistake of thinking that a free-standing house will eliminate all noise issues or that neighbors won't mind noise just because the neighborhood is run-down. You'll still need to check how loud the sound carries outside and make sure you're within sound ordinances.

Some other solutions would be to rent above a bar where noise is already expected, to find a unit that's in a commercial or industrial area without neighbors, or to rent a garage space that's not in a residential area.

How bad is the neighborhood? Will you come home some day and all his expensive equipment is stolen? Especially if it's obvious from the loud noise that there is expensive equipment inside?

My old office had an in-house musician in it. He covered his "studio" (actually just a normal office) with eggcrate foam (http://www.foambymail.com/acoustical-eggcrate-foam.html) and we never heard a note.

Obviously you have to cover the ceiling with it, too, and ensure that the floor (if someone is below you) is covered with rug(s) and lots of foam padding.

Why is this your problem to solve? If he is an expert in this field maybe he should tackle the task at hand... just a thought.

Part of the problem is the noise. Part of the problem is that the noise will be in the evenings and on weekends, when your neighbors will be home and you run a greater risk of bothering them with the noise. It's not just the noise--if there is heavy bass, that travels even if the sound isn't terribly loud. And *every* night and *every* weekend? That's asking a lot of your neighbors to put up with.

As your neighbor, I'd be upset. And I'd complain. The way I did when I had a music student living over me who thought nothing of practicing his trumpet at 5 am on Saturday and 11 pm on weeknights. During the day, even when I was working from home, I could handle it. When I wanted to sleep, or just wanted peace and quiet--nope, not happening.

Even the standalone house isn't going to completely solve the problem. My brothers had their own band for a while and the neighbors complained. They had to keep their practices to reasonable hours, and they had to play down in the basement, so the walls and ground could block some of the noise. My brother who played the drums ended up getting an electronic drum set--not ideal, but better than no drums at all.

I'd go for the nicer apartment and find some other space for his music. There are studios that you can rent by the hour in some areas. Or he uses headphones--I know they cause some problems, but you are going to have problems anyway. I think you have to choose which problems you want to deal with.

I'm curious, where does he do his music now?

Thank you Amalala (this is Lara) - it seems the issues of music production seem to lost on people! I appreciate your empathy and advice!

Hi Everyone - it's me, Lara. Thank you very much to everyone who offered helpful tips, advice, or at least empathy. (And to people who have had bad neighbors who were loud and are NOT offering helpful tips or advice, and rather projecting your anger through not-so-nice comments, I'm sorry for your situation, though you don't seem like you'd be the nicest neighbor either.)
I am looking into the tips and techniques offered, looking into small studio spaces for him, and working with my boyfriend to decide what the best path is for us. I really appreciate (some of) your help.

Lara, I think a lot of people are being blunt, not deliberately mean.

Noise in shared living spaces is probably the thing people complain about most. Your boyfriend is planning on making loud noise on a regular basis. Having no choice but to listen to someone else's choice of music in your own home, music loud enough to drown out your own choice of music, or the TV, is very frustrating to many people. You are getting a sense of that through the responses to your question.

Since you are renting, you probably cannot create a completely soundproof room for his music. You will be dealing with complaints from the neighbors and most likely from the landlord.

I'd like to be able to tell you about a magic product that can easily soundproof apartment walls without creating damage that a landlord will freak out over. But there isn't one.

Even in a standalone house, there is a good chance that the music will bother the neighbors.

I realize you are facing some tough choices here, and I'm sorry about that. I think the posters here have been honest with you--loud music is a big problem in shared living spaces. You know this, or you wouldn't be asking this question here.

Maybe the solution is to continue looking, until you can find a standalone house in a better neighborhood. One with a basement, which might contain some of the sound, or would be easier to soundproof.

If you do end up going with the in-house solution be aware that you can't sound proof perfectly. I really suggest trying to find a commercial space - sound proofing is one of those things that is really challenging.

If that truly isn't an option - talk to your neighbors and establish some rules - and then follow them. I'm a cellist and electronic music composer. I would make sure to work on stuff that could be on headphones after 9pm - it really makes a difference if they know you will be done by a certain time...

@care_bear perfectly and neatly said.

Hi, Lara. Lots of good advice here despite the snarks. (sometime ya just gotta eat the meat & spit out the bones) I do understand your situtation & seems to me like a6sinthe has the best offering for your particular situation as I understand it from your post...

"renting out a space with other friends and sharing the cost. Using commercial/industrial spaces in off business hours".

Look around, call friends, ask if they have friends in an industrial area who will be willing to rent space 'after hours'....in other words, NETWORK. Take your time & don't compromise. You'll be safe, bf will prosper while getting his music career off the ground & and you'll both be happy in the long run. That's your goal. Keep your eye on it. And do refrain from defending your choices in the future. It's not productive and only serves to lower yourself to the snarky level.. Best wishes.You can do it!

My neighbour also produces electronic music and I must say it is an absolute nightmare! There's nothing worse than thinking you've moved into a lovely peaceful apartment in a great area, only to find the catch is a constant repeditive thumping noise. For the sake of potential future nieghbours and your own comfort (living surrounded by people who have grown to despise you is never fun), I suggest you find the nicest stand-alone you can and invest heavily in rugs!

Lara, even though you don't appreciate all the comments and advice here, I'd wager it's better to hear it on the internet than from your actual neighbors.

Noise is obviously a big, big topic when it comes to neighborly relations, and obviously quite a few people here feel like their peace and sanity have been disrupted by it (I'm one of them). I'd say that whatever you do, give the comments here- even the snarky ones- a bit of thought, because in the end, they'll probably help you do more to mitigate this, and you'll have saved yourself a lot of grief down the road.

P.S. Good luck! :)

Aimee - good suggestions, but don't forget the floor and ceiling! Even if you don't have anybody above or below you, the sound will still transfer through the floor or ceiling to adjacent units.

Speaking as a professional acoustical consultant, it is basically impossible to improve the soundproofing of an existing building. Option C (a rental commercial studio) seems to be the best. The only thing which can actually prevent sound transmission is mass. And, for low frequency (bass) at high volumes, you need a lot of mass. To effectively block this, you probably need 8+ inches of reinforced concrete - at the floor, walls and ceiling. Sorry.

ThankyouThankyou for wanting to be a good neighbor! Beyond other suggestions made here, I'm wondering if your city has "live-work" types of spaces anywhere? These often show up as an artist's studio/art gallery on the ground floor with a residence above, but they vary, and tend to be in places with a mix of residential and commercial development (and fewer neighbors to object to noise). Talk to any local small business development groups you can find; they might have a lead on studio space, or something really creative for his business that might not have occurred to you. Good luck!

Hi Lara,
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I'm a musician and sound engineer and I was in a similar situation to you not long ago. In fact, I'm a drummer(!) and my wife is a trumpeter and we live above, below, and adjacent to neighbors in our Brooklyn rental apartment. We practice our instruments and I mix music and TV commercials generally without complaint into reasonably late into most nights.
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We were fortunate to find a pre-war building, which generally means thick, brick walls. Well constructed walls were an important criteria when we were looking, and a simple knock on the walls can help you understand how thick (or not) they are. We have a two bedroom, and our small "music room" shares a wall with our common hallway and a neighbor and fortunately it's very thick brick.
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But that only helps with adjacent neighbors. Downstairs neighbors will likely be most affected by loud music, so for that a layer of mass loaded vinyl covering the floor (preferably with open cell foam on bottom) will really help create a barrier for sound traveling down. Carpet or rugs on top of that help absorb some sound, and isolate the speakers, preventing some structural sound transference.
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As stated earlier, sound proofing isn't really possible in your scenario, but acoustic treatment is. The Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) helps isolate, but sound absorption inside the room is also necessary (more importantly to hear the speakers' direct sound, minimizing the effects of the room's shape and size). The low frequencies are the biggest liability for you, and egg crate foam does nothing for that. What you need (and what I did) is to wrap rigid fiberglass pieces (Owens Corning 705 and 703, usually in 2'x4' pieces) in fabric and hang them on the walls, especially in the corners where low frequencies "build up." I also put these rigid fiberglass pieces on the inside and outside of the door to the music room to keep some sound out of the rest of the apartment. This is common practice for studios and if you do it yourself it's very cost effective. Also, pads under the speakers (aka decouplers) help prevent bass from traveling through the stands and into the floor structure.
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Lastly, it is commonly accepted wisdom in the sound mixing world that 85 dB SPL (sound pressure level) is an optimal reference listening level, so go get a $20 radioshack SPL meter and encourage your BF never to mix above that level. His mixes will turn out better if he can keep it below there because our ears perceive sound more "neutrally" at that level or slightly below.
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Here are some helpful articles:
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"How to Soundproof an Apartment to Muffle Your Wife's Drumming"
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/06/soundproofing
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"Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms"
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
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"An Integrated Approach to Metering, Monitoring, and Levelling Practices"
http://www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=65
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Lastly, here's a plug for my mixing work, done in my apartment, with relatively no complaints from neighbors: sounds.andrewmunsey.com

Same situation here - I'm opting for bass traps and working with speaker placement to get more sonic bang for my buck so I don't need to crank the volume too much to get a good indication of what's happening in my mix.

Another way to look at it is to invest more money in better speakers - this will allow you to get more information from your music at a reasonable level, so you don't have to crank it.

For all of you that have questions or want to improve isolation and acoustics. check out my website at http://www.acoustictreatmentservices.com