Watch Marie Kondo Help Katie Couric Organize Her Closet

Ever since Marie Kondo’s Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up was published in 2014, her KonMari method has sparked joy with countless millions all over the world. It’s been such a phenomenon, it’s even been turned into a graphic novel. Now, the decluttering doyenne is teaching Katie Couric how to organize her closet.

In a video for Architectural Digest, Kondo joined Couric in her Upper East Side condo (which she purchased in 2016—and just got around to listing her old place nearby back in October), where the KonMari queen dishes out some of her best advice.

Katie calls herself a hot mess, confessing that she cleaned before Marie arrived, which, relatable (where are my people who clean before the cleaners arrive?). She dishes out the harsh reality that Katie should declutter her papers like the goal is to get rid of all of them, and gives her some classic spark joy tips for clothes.

Katie also has Kondo on her podcast this week, where she says the end goal is deeper than just having a clean home:

My method is really about really thinking about what makes you happy and then to be able to really treasure the things that are actually important to you…My book is not just about cleaning your room, but rather it’s about through the process of tidying and organizing to face yourself and to understand yourself better.

Though she doesn’t downplay the effect of a tidy space:

I think it does have both a physical and psychological effect… By being able to move along smoother throughout your day really does give you room to not have to worry about the small things.

Check out more from Marie Kondo over on Couric’s podcast.